unholy dk? are they still here and worth someting?

[Seegtease]

Frost is popular because Howling Blast is fun.

[shimerra]

Frost can ride a train full of bags of dicks all the way up satan's asshole. I'm done with the crap spec no matter how good it is compared to unholy.

[pimpeddakota]

frost can ride a train full of bags of dicks all the way up satan's asshole. I'm done with the crap spec no matter how good it is compared to unholy.

amen brother!

[Vereesa]

There appears to be a lot of hate toward Frost's current state. (due to its simplicity?) Am I really the only one that's completely ecstatic about 2H Frost's return? It's always been my favorite spec for DKs.

[shimerra]

Hope so. Waiting for killing machines can only be so interesting.

[Axethor]

There appears to be a lot of hate toward Frost's current state. (due to its simplicity?) Am I really the only one that's completely ecstatic about 2H Frost's return? It's always been my favorite spec for DKs.

I would like frost only if it became the tank spec and I got my beloved Blood DPS back. We know that's never gonna happen, so frost doesn't exist as a spec for my DK.

[drazzil]

I dont get why people say frost is easy and fun, ive tried it several times and the mechanics just seem to be clunky and proc-based. -And micromanaging the pet? seriously, all you do is keep sure its up, and hitting the button every tiome its time to power him up - much less "work" than watching the froist procs. - I always fall back to unholy, and im always at about the same dps level or better than frost-dks i play with - allowing for small disparages in skill and gear i would say they are pretty similar dps-wise - dont be afraid to go UH.

[Shiira]

There appears to be a lot of hate toward Frost's current state. (due to its simplicity?) Am I really the only one that's completely ecstatic about 2H Frost's return? It's always been my favorite spec for DKs.

I have no love for 2h frost because it's just not flexible enough.

Any time you aren't just sitting on one target you start to fall behind.

Dual wield blood tap is pretty interesting.

Also, I'd absolutely love to see some logs from people claiming that frost is too easy.

[Lovestar]

There appears to be a lot of hate toward Frost's current state. (due to its simplicity?) Am I really the only one that's completely ecstatic about 2H Frost's return? It's always been my favorite spec for DKs.

At the risk of being hypocritical — because I am, self-admitted right now, only a mediocre player in practice — I'd be interested to know what sort of performance level the people who are saying these things about Frost played to.

DW Frost is one of those specs that's superficially simplistic and obvious, and unravels into an endless spiral of madness as you keep trying to optimize it. Killing Machine is not difficult on the surface (neither is Sudden Doom...). However, keeping all 3 resources (Runes, RP, Blood Charges) in a state of constant tension while paying attention to everything else is a different matter.

In my opinion the challenge and reward of Frost comes from staying as close to optimal steady-state as possible in between KM procs or streaks. You want to be able to respond to KM instantly, preferably with Frost Strike, yet without ever Rune capping, RP capping, dropping Blood Plague, or wasting RE/Blood Charges/Rime procs. Again, it's a state of careful tension balanced between not wasting resources and yet having them available at any moment for a KM pop.

Unholy, on the other hand, pretty much knows exactly what it wants to do at all times and into the future. Very few surprises. The only problem is whether the boss or trash's time schedule is willing to cooperate with your own ideal timetable for doing all that stuff, eg, "Hooray! Phase transition halfway through a DT buff."

[Tykku]

Currently bursting 140k as unholy in 472 gear sustaining about 80k without gimmicks. Not as good as my frost spec, but only about 4k behind.

[Deleted]

If you are concerned about PVP, unholy is rather viable in rbgs, because diseases do a lot of damage (more than howling blast) and necrotics are better than as frost.

[Deleted]

The problem with unholy is, in my opinion, that t14 set bonuses favors frost over unholy.
Unholy is still 10 times more fun to play and we only sim 6k behind frost.

[Shiira]

The problem with unholy is, in my opinion, that t14 set bonuses favors frost over unholy.

In the situations where you'd actually want to be unholy for numbers the four piece is absolutely amazing.

Unholy is still 10 times more fun to play and we only sim 6k behind frost.

Even if frost is "only" 6k ahead on patchwerk, in many actual encounters the mechanics will favor frost over unholy.

[Vereesa]

I dont get why people say frost is easy and fun, ive tried it several times and the mechanics just seem to be clunky and proc-based. -And micromanaging the pet? seriously, all you do is keep sure its up, and hitting the button every tiome its time to power him up - much less "work" than watching the froist procs. - I always fall back to unholy, and im always at about the same dps level or better than frost-dks i play with - allowing for small disparages in skill and gear i would say they are pretty similar dps-wise - dont be afraid to go UH.

Conversely, I could also say 'all you need to do as Frost is make sure you hit buttons and make sure you hit the buttons that light up.' That's where the micromanaging comes in. As Unholy are you making sure you're nearly RP capped when DT falls off to ensure maximum uptime? Making sure your pet's hitting the right target at the right time and making sure it's not running too much/more than it needs to? That's micromanaging. All of this and more, in my opinion, work to make Unholy the spec that's harder to master.

[Deleted]

After several 1-20 ranks with both speccs, and by watching other's logs and such it's quite easy to see the trend.

DW frost >>> 2h frost = unholy

Sims can say whatever the fuck they want, but this tier is all about on-demand spammable AoE / single target burst, which of course suits DW frost perfectly.

MV: Stone guards, Feng hc, Spirit kings (to some extent), Elegon (all DK speccs are amazing for this fight)
HoF: Garalon, Wind Lord, Amber & Empress (to some extent)
TES: Tsulong, Lei Shi

It feels like all of these fights were designed to fit DW frost perfectly.

[Iso]

I can't stand unholy. It's just a babysitter now, and it's too pet focused. Pool rp to spam DC once fatty disolves, and regrow him..
Never been a fan of pet specs, but didn't mind unholy back in the ICC days. It dosen't feel very unholy atleast, it's too much melee and pet :l

Edit, That said, I main blood and only frost for dailies

[Shiira]

It feels like all of these fights were designed to fit DW frost perfectly.

Every boss in vaults is pretty good for dw frost.

As is sha of fear.

I was originally planning to be 2h frost for this tier to let warriors have the one handers, but dw frost is just amazing right now.

[Beefkow]

If you are concerned about PVP, unholy is rather viable in rbgs, because diseases do a lot of damage (more than howling blast) and necrotics are better than as frost.

I agree with you but here is the issue, apparently healers love to dispel diseases in result, we lose about 90% of my our dmg but there is another way out of this is to glyph enduring infection, but 30% reduction on diseases is a big sacrifice.

[drazzil]

Conversely, I could also say 'all you need to do as Frost is make sure you hit buttons and make sure you hit the buttons that light up.' That's where the micromanaging comes in. As Unholy are you making sure you're nearly RP capped when DT falls off to ensure maximum uptime? Making sure your pet's hitting the right target at the right time and making sure it's not running too much/more than it needs to? That's micromanaging. All of this and more, in my opinion, work to make Unholy the spec that's harder to master.

I understand, however, i'll admit i never watch my rp, i never use DC on my pet except if when im running between mobs or in phase-transitions, and i almost never manage my pet, he just hit whatever target im hitting (ok, some times i park him at the boss while running around killing adds, but thats about it).

Now, this is probably because im not really min-maxxing and im a bit lazy, however im consistantly in the top 2-3 dps spots in the raids i do without it.
Maybe im just incredibly lucky and my playstyle is close to what is optimal? i dont know - all i know is that i feel frost is a lot less forgiving about missing optimal rotation, and you have to watch more stuff going on.

[Schizoide]

I enjoyed unholy in WOTLK, but the cataclysm changes killed the spec for me. Unholy had a 2 GCD rampup in WOTLK; this was changed to a massive 20-30 seconds. Unholy had the best AE in the entire game in WOTLK; this was changed to the worst and made very slow (improved slightly in MoP, admittedly, but still terrible compared to frost or any other DPS spec except maybe enhance). Scourge Strike hit hard in WOTLK; in cataclysm it was changed to a single rune and damage decreased dramatically. The gargoyle is a very weak DPS cooldown, barely worth the runic power it takes to cast. And so on and so forth.

Meanwhile, frost addresses every single one of those problems. Quick rampup, instant burst AE, heavy hitting main ability (obliterate or frost strike), mobility, DPS cooldown gives massive strength on a short cooldown, etc.