Enhancement shaman DPS

[Deleted]

So ive got my enhancement shaman all raidgeared and doing fairly decent dps.
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Dazohan/simple

When i looked up the statweights on all the different stat pages they all said Agi > Hit/exp (until cap) > Mastery > Haste > Crit . But i wanted to play abit around with it.

I still remember the good old wotlk haste days so i though id give it a go in the reforger and what do you know. It increased 2k.
Looks like haste is back
well not in the "all in" on haste like it was in wotlk but it makes it more interresting to play enhancement and WAY more fun Agi is by far still the best stat

Here are my samples from Recount:

Sample 1: Statweights: Mastery > Haste > Crit - This gave me 49.899,6 Dps after a 2 minute period.

Sample 2: Statweights: Haste > Crit > Mastery - This gave me 48.606,9 Dps after a 2 minute period.

Sample 3: Statweights: Haste > Mastery > Crit - This gave me 51.754,4 Dps after a 2 minute period.

At all samples i am Hit/exp capped of course.
At all samples i did not use any cd´s nor buffs besides weapon-enchants and lightning shield of course

All in all i gained almost 2k dps on a simple reforge. Im gonna test it in tonights raid and see how it goes in a raid situation.

Granted the difference might be because of RNG but an interresting result none the less.


Just thought i would throw it out there

I would welcome any further ideas since im always looking for ways to increase my dps

[zenga]

S
At all samples i did not use any cd´s nor buffs besides weapon-enchants and lightning shield of course

Well since one will use cd's on any actual fight, it's not really a good way to measure the dps outside of cd's.

[Deleted]

All my cds have will have the same increase on both mastery and haste. Thats why i didnt use them.

But i will find out during tonights raid if it really is a better way to go

---------- Post added 2012-12-09 at 04:05 PM ----------

Besides i wanted to see how my dps would stack out between my cooldowns

[Hyttis]

Since most fights in current tier are filled with running, swapping, stopping dps etc, mastery just crushes haste.

[Deleted]

Guess we will find out tonight. But i hardly think thats going to be an issiue.

And no matter what. It will never "crush" haste. At the very most its going to be a few K under what i normally do.

If a person doesnt know what hes doing and constantly looking at hits buttons because its going to fast then yeah mastery will be better. But in that case i would recommend a few hours of training before trying to raid

[Cairm]

I'd like to have your follow up on that after your raid

[Deleted]

1st of all u should sim the diferent reforges since depens really on ur gear about haste mastery or crit, the more stats u have from one the more dps it gives u, ej if u have ratios like 16:8:4 if u go for haste u might have like 4:3:2 and so on, 2nd try out on bosses(lfr or even )
With my actual gear(491) with 476 weapons , if i go for haste orange gems and haste>crit>mastery reforge i got 90,800k dps on patchwerk sim, with mastery>crit>haste i have 91,200, also, haste might work better when ur weapons are better, more hits more dmg from autos and also haste lowers ur WF cooldown, with this acc i dont have permision to link links, char name is darlla on eu-uldum

[Yalingo]

One 2 minute sample on a dummy is not conclusive of anything really.

[Endus]

2 minute sessions really aren't enough to get usable data for what you're trying to do. To give you an idea, when I was testing proc chances for Rolling Thunder and Overload on the beta for Chain Lightning, I spammed dummies for about 2 hours. That got me some preliminary data that was "close enough" to draw some conclusions, but proc chances are also significantly easier to work out than stat weights, since they're just a single check, whereas stat weights rely on a whole host of factors and you really need to be playing perfectly to get that to work.

This is why we use sims for stat weights; you need thousands of hours of combat to get enough data to make firm conclusions. Getting that in-game isn't realistic, so we use sims to approximate it. Otherwise, RNG and such are going to be throwing your numbers out of whack more than the stat weights are.

[Deleted]

Well ive had two raids since the dummy and i can deffinately feel a difference. Granted on a boss like will of the emperor its worse but on pretty much everything else im doing a wee bit more than before

Might go back to mastery at some point but for now im gonna stick with haste

[Mithgroth]

Mastery is a direct boost to Ascendance.
Since you are doing it without any CD, you are getting wrong results.

Our second best stat is mastery by a huge margin.

[Nurabashi]

-snip-

Edit: Now that I have read the actual thing fully.. I'm an idiot.

[Deleted]

placebo effect

[Raiju]

placebo effect

^ This. It's confirmation bias. You cannot after a couple raids simply go "it feels a bit better" as an argument to present new theorycraft. Theorycraft (short of being tested extensively) requires accurate sims. There is so much variation between

You're looking for a dps increase with X style, so when the dps increase occurs you notice it. There are a thousand factors that are involved, and you probably disregard the equal/lower dps records because in your mind they aren't what you're looking for.

[psir]

Need to remember that Ascendance is affected by Mastery. Your auto-attacks does pure nature damage... Mastery 4 life!!!

But with ilevel 492 I actually get these stats weight:
Haste = 1.64
Crit = 1.48
Mastery = 1.46

I remember seeing someone posting a graph on how Haste climbs past crit and mastery by alot when you're getting higher ilevel gear.
But you need to remember that for fights such as Windlord. Where we're basically only doing aoe damage for a long time, Mastery would be alot better than Haste.. for obvious reasons.

And remember to maximize the usage of haste, you would have to be in melee range at all times. My point is that simming isn't always 100% accurate.

[Deleted]

Wait until Endus gets here to get your theory crafting behind handed to you XD.

Can I stomp all over his ridiculous assertions too???

Theorycrafting has always been plagued by the "well I tried X on a target dummy for a couple of minutes or in a couple of raids and it felt better so you guys who spend countless hours testing things working out the precise details of procs writing simulators such as EnhSim, SimCraft and Rawr Enhance must be wrong as my gut feeling is that X is better."

In my day I wrote a long rant pointing out precisely why your "testing" was flawed and backed it up with statistics. If that failed I simply locked the thread and in worst cases banned the idiots. Endus has more patience than me

However that said the whole point of theorycrafting is to welcome suggestions to investigate try new avenues and challenge existing models. The difference is that to be taken seriously you need to provide solid data. Share your findings, contribute fully to the debate and be prepared to be proved wrong or bask in the glory of having turned the debate to something new.

The key element is that you engage and provide proper data. Not just turn up on forum and say I tested for 2 minutes and it "felt better" in a raid.

[houndstooth]

Because I was curious, here's OPs sim with the basic simcraft settings:

Stat weights and expected DPS:
http://i.imgur.com/VJOML.png
Haste, Mastery, and Crit are very very close, but haste is actually the weakest of the three, although by a thin margin. Of course that may be because he reforged so much to haste already.

DPS plots per stat (I'm still new to this and could use some help)
http://i.imgur.com/Hcx5t.png
Does this stand for the proposition that:
1. He should increase mastery to increase dps up to another 2-3k dps?
-OR-
2. As his DPS increases, his mastery will continue to more valuable?

[Tides]

It varies quite a bit depending on gear for us at the moment.

With the gear i'm using i get only 0.01 difference between Mastery and Haste (Mastery being the stronger)

[Thanntos]

Because I was curious, here's OPs sim with the basic simcraft settings:

Stat weights and expected DPS:
http://i.imgur.com/VJOML.png
Haste, Mastery, and Crit are very very close, but haste is actually the weakest of the three, although by a thin margin. Of course that may be because he reforged so much to haste already.

DPS plots per stat (I'm still new to this and could use some help)
http://i.imgur.com/Hcx5t.png

Not to derail this at all, but merely curious, Houndstooth, since you simmed the OP.
I've haven't been using SimCraft that long, but have been recently to sim my dps/weights as well, and I find it odd that he comes out roughly 5k dps ahead of my sims. I am at 488 ilvl, and granted I don't have Dancing Steel on both weapons, but I don't see how missing two weapon enchant makes me miss out of 5k dps esp when I am ahead of his gear by 4-5 ilvls. Am I doing something wrong with my sims maybe not checking off things I should or changing variables?

http://i.imgur.com/g0NU9.png

[Tides]

The two Dancing Steel is acually quite alot of dps. It has damn high uptime and there's often two of em up at the same time at the start of the fight where you are popping cd's.

Also since its a patchwerk fight it sims it starts to show that you've got mining and you've not got the flameshock glyph. Small things add up.