Do you want Thrall back as Warchief?

[Vokal]

Fuck Thrall and his Mary Sue status in my opinion.

What was Metzen smoking when he came up with this terrible story is my inquiry.

[Zechs-cenarius]

Pay attention to what blizzard is saying lately. The whole point of mists and its plotline is to show what happens when you follow a path of constant warfare, he has dire consequences, and it has to come to an end.

The horde and alliance are set to settle there differences. They are not going to become friends, but there war is set to end in times to come, so both sides can focus on something bigger, such as the legions return. Pay close attention to what Wrathion and Velen have said.

As such, the horde will not be needing a leader who wants to constantly engage in war with the alliance, like that fact or not its going to happen. Thrall is the best leader for thats to come.

---------- Post added 2012-12-09 at 06:34 PM ----------



Seriously. He's the best thing for the horde to get out of the shit its made for itself.

I disagree with the bolded part. Thrall is too busy right now with the earthen ring repairing azeroth from the cataclysm. I firmly believe the vol'jin or baine would be the best to lead the horde since neither could be considered a warmonger and are rather reactive when it comes to conflict. I do however wish that thrall would be an advisor to the new warchief so that the orcs would not be disenfranchised like all the other races of the horde were during garrosh/thrall's reign.

[Trassk]

I disagree with the bolded part. Thrall is too busy right now with the earthen ring repairing azeroth from the cataclysm. I firmly believe the vol'jin or baine would be the best to lead the horde since neither could be considered a warmonger and are rather reactive when it comes to conflict. I do however wish that thrall would be an advisor to the new warchief so that the orcs would not be disenfranchised like all the other races of the horde were during garrosh/thrall's reign.

wrong again. When your meet him for the horde questline 'horde is family', he's in durotar at the valley of trials with Aggra, and he heads to the echo isles to take care of whats happening there, and even agrees to remain there until Vol'jin returns.
If he was dealing with earthen ring business as you say, he wouldn't be there.

[LilSaihah]

Pay attention to what blizzard is saying lately. The whole point of mists and its plotline is to show what happens when you follow a path of constant warfare, he has dire consequences, and it has to come to an end.

The horde and alliance are set to settle there differences. They are not going to become friends, but there war is set to end in times to come, so both sides can focus on something bigger, such as the legions return. Pay close attention to what Wrathion and Velen have said.

As such, the horde will not be needing a leader who wants to constantly engage in war with the alliance, like that fact or not its going to happen. Thrall is the best leader for thats to come.

---------- Post added 2012-12-09 at 06:34 PM ----------



Seriously. He's the best thing for the horde to get out of the shit its made for itself.

He's the best leader for the Horde because shining Mary Sue status will shield the Horde from all that could ail it.

Seriously he's had plenty of time in the spotlight. He's had two or three books about him. He's had an expansion about him. Thrall can be a (teeny weeny) part of the Horde's management but he doesn't need to be Warchief to do that.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Fuck Thrall and his Mary Sue status in my opinion.

What was Metzen smoking when he came up with this terrible story is my inquiry.

Yeah how perfect Thrall is for putting Garrosh in charge and now the Horde suffers from it.


It's like people have an adversion for a *peaceful* warchief. You guys will still get your war fix, regardless of who is warchief. It happened with Thrall when he was Warchief and it will happen again whoever is Warchief...if that title is even existent by the time Garrosh is dead or deposed.

He's the best leader for the Horde because shining Mary Sue status will shield the Horde from all that could ail it.

Seriously he's had plenty of time in the spotlight. He's had two or three books about him. He's had an expansion about him. Thrall can be a (teeny weeny) part of the Horde's management but he doesn't need to be Warchief to do that.

Thrall didn't suddenly enable Horde plot armor.

[Dasani]

Thrall abandoned the horde and left an unworthy idiot in charge.

Horde is better off without either of them. Vol'jin would make a better warchief and at this point. Bane is too young and inexperienced, sylvanas is insane, blood elves are treacherous. Vol'jin is the only logical choice.

Unless of course blizzard wants to fart out a brand new character that never existed, like they did when they created Garrosh.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Thrall abandoned the horde and left an unworthy idiot in charge.

Horde is better off without either of them. Vol'jin would make a better warchief and at this point. Bane is too young and inexperienced, sylvanas is insane, blood elves are treacherous. Vol'jin is the only logical choice.

Unless of course blizzard wants to fart out a brand new character that never existed, like they did when they created Garrosh.

Thrall left temporarily due to the fact the Cataclysm was hurting Azeroth. As his duty as a shaman(And being a warrior lol) he had to help mend Azeroth. He didn't abandon the Horde at all, don't twist things. Vol'Jin may be a good warchief but... I think we should wait until more things progress because at this point it's unknown that and Blizzard said the person who would be warchief would be...something we wouldn't expect.

I suspect.....Basic Campfire.

[Deleted]

No, Im actually hoping he dies this expansion with garrosh.

[zito]

How can this poll exist without basic campfire and gamon?

[Karnudge]

omg so many thoughts...

Gul'dan was working for Kil'jaeden and his own power, and not for the horde, and had been doing this for a while. Blackhand was his pawn. You forget that the original orcs brought to Azeroth were pawns of the legion and not free citizens(even if they thought they were). So don't pretend that Doomhammer won't hesitate to kill his own, any of the faction leaders will kill their own if it protects their people. Garrosh has killed just so he can become the warchief...that's a bit different...

Do i want Thrall back? Not really. I always felt that he was so tolerant that he tolerated intolerance. Someone who's set up to be a great warchief is Baine. He may have been sort of gentle like his father but seeing your old man get killed and your city become attacked by rival Tauren probably had some interesting effects. He's angry enough now that he'd keep everyone in line. Plus his adviser is Runetotem, which means after this conflict ends (can we get the raid where we kill Garrosh yet?) that the druids can start working crap out between the factions.

[Justignoreme]

isnt that the same mindset everyone has of their enemies?

The Horde dont consider the Alliance as people
The Alliance dont cinsider the Horde as people only monsters and creatures

Because if you consider your enemies as people, it becomes a lil harder to kill them

Funny cause Cataclysm and beyond showed the Alliance still giving the Horde the benefit of the doubt in favour of fighting Deathwing and Ragnaros. The Alliance has had to deal with an endless barrage of Horde aggression, explosively in Cataclysm, so ofc they think the Horde are monsters and animals, especially after seeing what happened in Theramore, Southshore, Ashenvale, Andorhal, Azshara, Gilneas, and Stonetalon it's pretty much impossible to separate them. And now the Horde is idolizing the Mogu and talking genocide/enslavement after they use ancient super weapons to commit planned atrocities against the Alliance because they can't go toe-to-toe in any form of warfare. It isn't demonising; the Horde's actions do *all* the talking. The Horde have never, ever, even once, shown the slightest signs of respect for Alliance races and people, but Blizzard has forced Horde love upon all of us, with Thrall, Saurfang, Hamuul, etc stepping away from their Horde titles to lead neutral organisations/coalitions. And they did a damned good job of it too, until that Hellscream asshole ruined it.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Funny cause Cataclysm and beyond showed the Alliance still giving the Horde the benefit of the doubt in favour of fighting Deathwing and Ragnaros. The Alliance has had to deal with an endless barrage of Horde aggression, explosively in Cataclysm, so ofc they think the Horde are monsters and animals, especially after seeing what happened in Theramore, Southshore, Ashenvale, Andorhal, Azshara, Gilneas, and Stonetalon it's pretty much impossible to separate them. And now the Horde is idolizing the Mogu and talking genocide/enslavement after they use ancient super weapons to commit planned atrocities against the Alliance because they can't go toe-to-toe in any form of warfare. It isn't demonising; the Horde's actions do *all* the talking. The Horde have never, ever, even once, shown the slightest signs of respect for Alliance races and people, but Blizzard has forced Horde love upon all of us, with Thrall, Saurfang, Hamuul, etc stepping away from their Horde titles to lead neutral organisations/coalitions. And they did a damned good job of it too, until that Hellscream asshole ruined it.

Why are you even trying?

[Okacz]

I have always maintained the best way to bring Thrall back in a manner that most people would like is this:

Jaina in her initial fury destroys the nearest Horde settlement which Aggra was in at the time. The baby survives but Aggra dies. Thrall is now full of grief, resentment and anger. He knows he cannot protect or care for his son at this time so he takes him to Nagrand for family to raise. Here he meets Saurfang once again and after learning of what happened Saurfang vows to fulfill his promise against Garrosh.

The two return to Azeroth with Saurfang working to rally the orcs and Thrall gathering the rest of the Horde. Saurfang is forced into action before Thrall is ready and duels Garrosh. He wounds Garrosh but before he can finish him, falls to Malkorok's intervention ending Saurfang's life in dishonorable combat. Garrosh ashamed and angry at this 'victory' decides to delve even deeper into the corruption that he has unleashed on the Horde so that he will be so powerful no one can defeat him.

Upon hearing the news of Saurfang's death and the manner in which it happened Thrall is finally pushed over the brink and descends upon Orgrimmar in a massive storm of power and vengeance. He discovers that Varian and the Alliance have beaten him to the gates however. Thrall orders Varian to stand down, that this is his problem. Thrall challenges Garrosh and with the help of the players through their prevention of any kind of interference, is victorious and reclaims the mantle of Warchief.

This is a different Thrall than before. He has lost many friends and loved ones including his mate. He feels betrayed by the one human he thought was one of his greatest friends. His new son has an uncertain future to be raised without his mother and father. In Thrall's mind, Go'el is dead. He died with Aggra. He is now Thrall once more, not a slave to the humans...but a slave to his people. As long as they need him he will be there to lead them. He will never fully trust the Alliance again and as he stands across the body of Garrosh he stares down Varian, raises Doomhammer high above his head and bellows ...

"Today, we end this madness! From this day forward until I die, we shall not be the instigators of unnecessary bloodshed. We will bow to no one who denies us what is ours, but we shall come to arms only if the need is great and just. This battle between our people is now over. We shall never again start a war with the Alliance, but by the spirits if they want a war it shall be the last one Azeroth shall ever see! We will not stop until your head Varian, is hanging from the burnt remains of the gates of Stormwind and your kingdom lies in ashes! This I promise as Warchief! We shall no longer fight for land or glory or blood....we fight.. FOR THE HORDE!"

Really nicely written, and I wouldn't be suprised if the real outcome was similiar in the future. It matches the current trend in Blizzards storytelling (maybe not the Thrall going more, well, threedimensional, Blizzard would never scare him so much). The only problem I find is lack of consistency.

I mean, look. In the previous duel with Thrall, Garrosh clearly had an upper hand. Saying he did not is just writing another fanfic - Thrall had less hp in game, this is the only way provided to tell who was winning. Therefore, I would rather see Garrosh being the close winner in such a duel.

And secondly, this whole "dishonorable thing" in Garroshes duel... Not long ago Garrosh had similiar clash with Cairne. He fought honorably and well, but in fact he was being beaten for the most part. At one point he managed to shatter Cairnes weapon, which would normally lead him to clean victory, but this time his blade was poisoned. And Garrosh, knowing that he was stripped from honorable victory, went apeshit. Whatever you can say about him, he is a honorable orc. Especially if it comes to duels.

In my opinion, Malkorok will play his role in the game yet. Christie Golden would be sad if he didn't, it's her lame character. But I think if Blizzard wants to leave Garrosh at least a little bit of dignity, a little bit of the "cata Garrosh", Malkorok will play a bad role in eyes of the Warchief. Considering your scenario, after Malkoroks intervention and killing Saurfang, Garrosh would stand up, however badly beaten, and crush Malkoroks skull. Then, he would spit and tell Thrall "we will duel again soon enough, and this time nobody will intervene".

[Faroth]

"Today, we end this madness! From this day forward until I die, we shall not be the instigators of unnecessary bloodshed. We will bow to no one who denies us what is ours, but we shall come to arms only if the need is great and just. This battle between our people is now over. We shall never again start a war with the Alliance, but by the spirits if they want a war it shall be the last one Azeroth shall ever see! We will not stop until your head Varian, is hanging from the burnt remains of the gates of Stormwind and your kingdom lies in ashes! This I promise as Warchief! We shall no longer fight for land or glory or blood....we fight.. FOR THE HORDE!"

So essentially, the lore would be The Alliance get the piss beat out of them and have nothing to show for it except a stronger, more powerful Horde that was established by the Horde stopping the problem the Horde started?

Why would Thrall threaten to hang Varian's head from Stormwind and destroy the kingdom? Why would Thrall threaten Varian when the Alliance is not responsible for anything that's escalated at this point? Garrosh is the source and Thrall is responsible for it.

You can't twist it and make this "Alliance is so mean, Thrall is so good" when Thrall is responsible for this whole mess. The story is going in the right direction as Thrall has acknowledged his part in putting Garrosh in charge and he's going to work to help fix it.

For an expansion that's supposedly meant to have the Alliance's moment to shine, their victory the players can be proud of, it sounds like this solution (which I honestly wouldn't be surprised by) is just more victory, honor, and glory for the Horde with no ramifications for THEIR PART IN CAUSING ALL OF THIS.

[zephid]

By "peace" I meant between the alliance and horde.

Peace between the alliance and the horde is the last thing WoW needs, if anything they need to intensify the conflict even more.

[iamthedevil]

Thrall abandoned the horde and left an unworthy idiot in charge.

Horde is better off without either of them. Vol'jin would make a better warchief and at this point. Bane is too young and inexperienced, sylvanas is insane, blood elves are treacherous. Vol'jin is the only logical choice.

Unless of course blizzard wants to fart out a brand new character that never existed, like they did when they created Garrosh.

How do you expect new characters to be created?

[Faroth]

Peace between the alliance and the horde is the last thing WoW needs, if anything they need to intensify the conflict even more.

I kind of felt that MoP should have escalated the war, the next expansion should have been South Seas, Kul Tiras, and naga focused (culminating in being outmanuevered by Azshara and forced to help the naga defeat N'Zoth) while the war escalates further.

Garrosh's rise in Cataclysm to the outbreak of war and his fall in MoP feels like it was a bit too quick. Slower progression of Garrosh's intensity and an extra expansion of escalated warfare before being forced to fight alongside your hate enemy against the Legion would have worked better, I think.

But even if we fight together against the Legion next expansion, you can be it's going to be a while before the wounds of Cata and MoP heal between Horde and Alliance.

[D3athsting]

Next horde warchief :

[Deleted]

I for one would like somebody else.

As awesome as that image is and how great he was as a character to found the Horde my opinion is that he has moved beyond the role.
Garrosh will need to be removed and I have no doubt Thrall will work to do it to correct his mistake but I do not think he is the one to lead the Horde into the next golden age unless he suffers a tragedy by losing Aggra and/or his child.

My own opinion is that Thrall lacks the fire he once had to lead the Horde to war and he would need to get it back before he is fit to rule again.

In the absence of Thrall Nazgrim or Saurfang make ideal replacements.

[Trassk]

ow don't you poke me on lore.

Lorewise thrall never knew about the isle if it wasn't for me, venziir, and i think willian if we did not make a blood bond with Vol'jin

Trassk i always just ignore you since i know you. You are very thrall biased. Saladrin is or more WAS very alliance biased.

P.S if you mean Players like you that wish too fight next to know characters since that would be badass then you are correct. But yea you don't know me so you stereotypicly put me somewhere

know me do you? Thats funny since I can guarantee we've never meet once irl and you assume you know me based purely on forum posts. Well since you think that I must know you to because of the same reason.

Don't try it.