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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by The Ogdru Jahad View Post
    I think the problem with people believing in global climate change is that we know that the temperature and climate has fluctuated DRASTICALLY over time.
    How is that a problem? Temperature changes for understood reasons. At the moment the reason is human emissions. Saying "it has changed in the past" is a pointless red herring when "the reasons that caused the changes in the past are not present now".

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-11 at 02:08 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by TradewindNQ View Post
    new page so, reposting, before we get more "I don't believe in it so I'm gonna continue wasting shit" posts.
    That cartoon is posted every single global warming thread, I won't expect it to do any good this time either...

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by semaphore View Post
    How is that a problem? Temperature changes for understood reasons. At the moment the reason is human emissions. Saying "it has changed in the past" is a pointless red herring when "the reasons that caused the changes in the past are not present now".
    We replaced dino farts with cow farts, duh!
    Quote Originally Posted by semaphore View Post
    That cartoon is posted every single global warming thread, I won't expect it to do any good this time either...
    But it's posted twice now!

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Eroginous View Post
    Second, it's clear at this point that the earth's climate is changing. However, what's not clear, is whether or not the trend is due to what people like to call 'global warming' or whether or not human activity is the source or has a significant impact.
    Except that is absolutely, abundantly clear. We know green house gases cause warming. We know how to calculate the warming effect of green house gases. And we know how much green house gases we are pumping into the atmosphere.

    Like really, the basic mechanism of the greenhouse effect was well understood a century ago:
    On the Influence of Carbonic Acid in the Air upon the Temperature of the Ground, Svante Arrhenius, Philosophical Magazine and Journal of Science Series 5, Volume 41, April 1896, pages 237-276.
    Last edited by semaphore; 2012-12-11 at 02:11 AM.

  4. #204
    Chadwix being proud of willful ignorance of science? Color me shocked.

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by Chonogo View Post
    Yes, but we don't know how much it will affect us in the future.

    Scientists right now are doing themselves a disservice by putting out predictions. The theory of global warming/climate change is not solid enough for that.
    We don't know for sure what will happen, that's true. But the sciences are solid enough to make predictions even though inherent uncertainty means the predictions come out as a range. That doesn't mean the predictions are wrong or that they aren't made with solid scientific foundations however. I mean, I'm pretty sure that predictions have consistently underestimated the degree of change.

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by Chonogo View Post
    True, but that instant media coverage thing I talked about is always playing against them. They should understand the process right now. Then again, I don't think scientists really worry about whether someone believes their conclusion, because in most cases they have the trials and experiments to prove their conclusions. It's a "prove me wrong, sucka!" kinda thing, I suppose.
    Not because of their predictions though. I think it's more like people who have convinced themselves that global warming isn't real, look at the predictions and say "well I can't believe that will happen in 50 years when the world isn't warming, ergo, it must be a wrong prediction!". Ultimately having some idea of what is going to happen is necessary when it appears unlikely that human emissions could be reigned in sufficiently.

    Otherwise we run into moronic situations like North Carolina's idiocy in defining sea level rises by statute, explicitly rejecting well-founded scientific projections of what will happen. Not sure what they'll do in a few decades when the sea starts breaking Raleigh's laws... Clearly King Canute's lesson is lost on them.

    What's the major thing anti-science people bring up about global warming predictions? That stupid hockey stick graph from Climategate. They ignore the other studies that have more data points and an ever-increasing experiment pool.
    And that the graph is actually correct.

  7. #207
    See the thing is climate change doesn't care if you believe it or not. It just goes ahead and happens anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  8. #208
    Global warming is proven to be 10x worse than expected, how do we regulate north korea and other countries who arent in compliance? We can pat ourselves on the back all we want, but even if you find proof you cant do crap about it in the higher offending regions.

    Sit under the rainbow and sing, its just as effective.

  9. #209
    Might as well worry about radiation from the sun and build a giant pair of sunglasses over the earth.

    Also we should build giant corks to block up volcanos!

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by chadwix View Post
    Global warming is proven to be 10x worse than expected, how do we regulate north korea and other countries who arent in compliance? We can pat ourselves on the back all we want, but even if you find proof you cant do crap about it in the higher offending regions.

    Sit under the rainbow and sing, its just as effective.
    US emissions are nearly two orders of magnitude higher than North Korea's. The EU's are about 50 times as high. Who gives a fuck about North Korea?

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by Choptimus View Post
    Might as well worry about radiation from the sun and build a giant pair of sunglasses over the earth.

    Also we should build giant corks to block up volcanos!
    I agree with both points, oddly enough they are safer bets than what our current administration has to get us out of debt. If we charge more, we make more!!! Freaking brilliant!!!

  12. #212
    Over 9000! Milchshake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chadwix View Post
    Global warming is proven to be 10x worse than expected, how do we regulate north korea and other countries who arent in compliance? We can pat ourselves on the back all we want, but even if you find proof you cant do crap about it in the higher offending regions.

    Sit under the rainbow and sing, its just as effective.
    You're just losing the argument on purpose. North Korea is about the worst example anyone could cite. You know what their industrial and agricultural output is?

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by chadwix View Post
    Global warming is proven to be 10x worse than expected, how do we regulate north korea and other countries who arent in compliance? We can pat ourselves on the back all we want, but even if you find proof you cant do crap about it in the higher offending regions.

    Sit under the rainbow and sing, its just as effective.
    Let's give up because it's hard. Kind of a pathetic fall back argument. Completely impossible to convince to persuade people. You're right.
    “Logic: The art of thinking and reasoning in strict accordance with the limitations and incapacities of the human misunderstanding.”
    "Conservative, n: A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal who wishes to replace them with others."
    Ambrose Bierce
    The Bird of Hermes Is My Name, Eating My Wings To Make Me Tame.

  14. #214
    Deleted
    I remember my winters as a kid most actually had snow (21 now was 5-6). Nowdays in the middle of sweden it has been alot of random winters, either rain and snowslush or freezingly cold with piles of snow. What I mean is that it used to be balanced, now I never know what to expect to be honest oO.

  15. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker76 View Post
    You're just losing the argument on purpose. North Korea is about the worst example anyone could cite. You know what their industrial and agricultural output is?
    It was more of an example of countries who dont give a crap about what we say and those who cant afford to implement compliant conditions.

    North korea was a good example because they dont listen to anyone apparently, i used them for that reason more so than emissions.

    "Let's give up because it's hard"

    That was a hypothetical statement to present my point

    Id think human rights trump polluting the air, call me crazy.
    Last edited by chadwix; 2012-12-11 at 02:52 AM.

  16. #216
    How about solving the world hunger crisis first?

    How about solving world poverty first?

    How about we work on world peace first? At least that way we won't be blowing each others new green tech up, destroying any positive effect it may have had.

    Seriously, global warming should be at the very bottom of urgent issues we need to fix as a planet.

  17. #217
    Merely a Setback Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Choptimus View Post
    How about solving the world hunger crisis first?

    How about solving world poverty first?

    How about we work on world peace first? At least that way we won't be blowing each others new green tech up, destroying any positive effect it may have had.

    Seriously, global warming should be at the very bottom of urgent issues we need to fix as a planet.
    Then we'd never solve global warming. None of those problems will ever be solved but we have the resources to mitigate ALL of them significantly, so we don't need a priority list.
    Putin khuliyo

  18. #218
    Everyone of these threads starts with denialism of the actual phenomena and eventually goes to, "well we can't do anything about it". I wonder what the next turn of the denialist movement will be.

  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by chadwix View Post
    It was more of an example of countries who dont give a crap about what we say and those who cant afford to implement compliant conditions.

    North korea was a good example because they dont listen to anyone apparently, i used them for that reason more so than emissions.

    "Let's give up because it's hard"

    That was a hypothetical statement to present my point

    Id think human rights trump polluting the air, call me crazy.
    So, when our people are suffering and they ask why, the answer will be "because rights".

    Because that's not dumb.

  20. #220
    Merely a Setback Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chadwix View Post
    Id think human rights trump polluting the air, call me crazy.
    What about my right to breath clean air and drink clean water?
    Putin khuliyo

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