[Fire] Hotfix Dec 10th

[Shangalar]

Please keep the discussions civil.

This is not a thread about:
- Fire rotation
- any other class' rotation
- any other class' position on made-up and simulated and theoretical dps lists
- complaining how the nerf was undeserved
- complaining how the buff was undeserved
- complaining how the Fire spec is destroyed anyway
- complaining how Mages are always top and other classes are not

This is a thread about:
- a Hotfix to Critical Mass and Inferno Blast spread targets...
- and how this Hotfix affects Fire dps

[Zalamander]

Basically my crit gear has 32% crit chance now. means fireball had 48% crit chance, pretty nice.
got nerfed to 40% but is now again buffed to 41.6%.
1.6% more crit might not sound like much but considering how exponential fire DPS reacts to crit I clearly understand why they have to be this careful with critical mass.
Its mainly the chance of 3 fireball crits in row occuring that is key to a fire mage "jackpot!"(3 or 4 instant pyroblasts in row depending on PoM spec) and just 1% more crit increases the chance of it occuring by a lot.

I just fear they will slap a diminishing return on crit rating soon to save them lots of trubble with fire be able to get too high crit.

[Animaneth]

Fire damage was totally out of control and because of the overpowered scaling, it will be once again when everyone gets T15, possibly even full T14 heroic.

I think you might be correct, however the majority of players wont have full T14 heroic gear, pieces? probably.

I don't want to be misunderstood, when I say that I'm getting pissed or tired of this "nerf one week, buff the next one" philosophy, I mean that what really bothers me is that the spec feels like a boat in the middle of a storm with a broken wheel, good luck trying to get it to go straight.

And about switching to arcane, my answer is: for the time being, I'm not going Arcane. I got tired of being pushed to Arcane during most Wrath and most Cata in order to raid. It made me really hate the spec, might be fun, might be powerful I just dont care. Going Frost is the other option, wich has been always my secondary except firelands when I had a fire off just for Alysrazor, but I dont know, why would I want to learn the pve aspect of frost if it's clear that it will be nerfed as soon as a lot of people switches to it, and again becomes the "powerful spec that can be used in pvp and pve".

[SpaceDuck]

Basically my crit gear has 32% crit chance now. means fireball had 48% crit chance, pretty nice.
got nerfed to 40% but is now again buffed to 41.6%.
1.6% more crit might not sound like much but considering how exponential fire DPS reacts to crit I clearly understand why they have to be this careful with critical mass.
Its mainly the chance of 3 fireball crits in row occuring that is key to a fire mage "jackpot!"(3 or 4 instant pyroblasts in row depending on PoM spec) and just 1% more crit increases the chance of it occuring by a lot.

I just fear they will slap a diminishing return on crit rating soon to save them lots of trubble with fire be able to get too high crit.

you forgot to take away 3% crit due to boss level being 3 levels higher, so:

pre nerf
(32-3) * 1.5 = 43.5

post over nerf
(32-3) * 1.25 = 36.25

post hot fix "buff"
(32-3) * 1.3 = 37.7%

so a 1.65% increase! not much considering there is still amost 6% difference between now and the pre nerf

[mrgreenthump]

Basically my crit gear has 32% crit chance now. means fireball had 48% crit chance, pretty nice.
got nerfed to 40% but is now again buffed to 41.6%.
1.6% more crit might not sound like much but considering how exponential fire DPS reacts to crit I clearly understand why they have to be this careful with critical mass.
Its mainly the chance of 3 fireball crits in row occuring that is key to a fire mage "jackpot!"(3 or 4 instant pyroblasts in row depending on PoM spec) and just 1% more crit increases the chance of it occuring by a lot.

I just fear they will slap a diminishing return on crit rating soon to save them lots of trubble with fire be able to get too high crit.

You are right, its a buff. Its a nice buff.. but it doesnt do much when you are below everyone by a lot more than the buff gives...

But that is how things are atm, and we might get the 50% ish chance back in future tiers, but seeing how nuts arcane is at scaling atm(even though its still broken as hell).. fire will just not be even considered on fights without any cleave.

---------- Post added 2012-12-11 at 10:58 AM ----------

you forgot to take away 3% crit due to boss level being 3 levels higher, so:

pre nerf
(32-3) * 1.5 = 43.5

post over nerf
(32-3) * 1.25 = 36.25

post hot fix "buff"
(32-3) * 1.3 = 37.7%

so a 1.65% increase! not much considering there is still amost 6% difference between now and the pre nerf

Ehm 1.45%

[gutnbrg]

wait so is inferno blast still spreading living bomb too?

[Shangalar]

wait so is inferno blast still spreading living bomb too?

It does but it's not in its base design, you get that functionality through the Glyph of Fire Blast.

[Deleted]

you forgot to take away 3% crit due to boss level being 3 levels higher, so:

pre nerf
(32-3) * 1.5 = 43.5

post over nerf
(32-3) * 1.25 = 36.25

post hot fix "buff"
(32-3) * 1.3 = 37.7%

so a 1.65% increase! not much considering there is still amost 6% difference between now and the pre nerf

EDIT: Maths was incorrect, ignore

Whilst the initial Crit nerfs were steep, yes, it's impossible to gauge exactly how much % of our DPS crit makes up. Considering the fact that pre-nerf Fire was head and shoulders above every spec of every class (even on single target), the new value of CM seems roughly correct, especially as we're still going to obtain more and more crit as we get more gear.

[Aktec]

Was never convinced by the original nerf, I agree fire needed something to change(pre 5.1) as it was the 1st tier as was the best spec and it has always scaled nicely with increased crit levels.

But I think a flat dmg nerf on fireball/pyroblast like what they did in DS would have been better. Messing with the crit levels makes it an even more rng spec.

[mrgreenthump]

The 3% crit is taken off the CM'd Fireball/Pyro/Scorch, not beforehand.
Critical Mass is present 100% of the time as it's a passive buff, the way you're calculating it is as if CM is only present once a spell has hit the boss; which isn't true.

Pre-nerf: 32*1.5 = 48-3 = 45% Crit

Post 5.1 Nerf: 32*1.25 = 40-3 = 37% Crit

Post buff: 32*1.3 = 41.6-3 = 38.6% Crit

Whilst the initial Crit nerfs were steep, yes, it's impossible to gauge exactly how much % of our DPS crit makes up. Considering that, pre-nerf Fire was head and shoulders above every spec of every class (even on single target) the new value of CM seems roughly correct, especially as we're still going to obtain more and more crit as we get more gear.

Nope, the boss reduction is before CM kicks in. That is unless blizz made a redesign once again without telling anyone..

[Deleted]

Nope, the boss reduction is before CM kicks in. That is unless blizz made a redesign once again without telling anyone..

Really? Doesn't sound very logical, but fair enough. My bad.

[Awry]

I guess it's better then nothing. Just goes to show that Blizz really did overnerf fire.

[Redcinder]

After wading through all the dirt and grime I have found a few constructive posts. IMO any buff is welcome and since my guild has just started Windlord HC this AoE change is very welcome.

No fire mage should be complaining, we need to take what we can.

[Magemaer]

1.3? Sorry bro, not enough to make it good again.

[Deleted]

a nerf had to take place, just overdone like many already stated before.

This is a step into the right direction, but i'm not convinced its enough. Single target in current state is bad, only reason its can be somewhat on par is due to the heavy movement on certain encounters.

[Deleted]

See raidbots, it was fine. If you were 20k DPS below your raid as a fire mage after the nerf, youbad.

Fire has always been retardproof: Keep 1 debuff up, spam 1 button until a second lights up, push second button.

Armory of those 10 classes with decent progression and ranks?

ranks? did i say i play pvp or u just putting that there to sound smart? do tell me where did i say i was below my raid after the nerfs, i was below my own top dps by over 20k after the nerf

[Deleted]

No. Fire is faceroll and is exactly what I described it as. Go away.

Living bomb up.
Fireball.
Crit? Inferno blast!
Pyroblast.

Hard class man.

ooh sounds like a rogue is trying to say hes rotation is any harder? :P

[Racthoh]

i would still much rather impact spread to all targets again. the damage would have to be split among all targets instead of being direct spell copies. but it would feel much better to aoe evenly.

[spaace]

Next week, another random increase to critical mass inc...

Seriously though.. do they even test things anymore?

1.3 is still a joke.

[nimryas]

I went arcane last week, but I like fire better as it is more mobile (and I like to jump alot :') ). Before this little buff arcane was the better spec because of the huge fire nerf and reasonable arcane buff. How would these 2 relate now? Don't give me frost, I don't like frost for pve

I noticed i was doing alot more dmg as arcane when i changed to this spec, I would like to play fire and still be doing the same amount of dps, but fire is more rng as arcane, so im not totally sure. Anyone done sims yet?