1. #1

    Grand Empress Shek'zeer 10m (N) Why are our tanks dying?

    Somehow our tanks die on almost 90% of our tries. I as a raidleader cant figure out if the healers are failing or if the tanks are failing.
    Are we doing the tactics wrong?

    Grateful for any tips or tricks

  2. #2
    Okay so your dying in p2 about, from my assumptions / tips type of things, cause im to lazy to check most of it but anyway :
    Have tanks pop cd's if they start dropping, this includes healers using cd's on them
    Have tanks kite the mobs, its quite helpful
    Have most of your players pop cd's, to help ease the damage till the small adds die, and your reavers trapped
    Have dps build the amber traps
    This might or not be helpful to you, but we used a ret to taunt one add off from one side only, and dps killed that to help take dmg from one side.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by MoridinRavenholdt View Post
    Somehow our tanks die on almost 90% of our tries. I as a raidleader cant figure out if the healers are failing or if the tanks are failing.
    Are we doing the tactics wrong?

    Grateful for any tips or tricks
    Tanks need CD's whether external or their own or both. You can stun slow snare the little adds. Mark one to die ASAp so ranged can focus it down. Also mark one NOT to die. Once all the little adds are dead the empress will respawn so you need to trap both big guys before the last little guy dies or the empress will spawn while you have adds up. Make 2 traps out of the amber and trap both big guys in them. Hope this helps.
    Quote Originally Posted by PRE 9-11 View Post
    This term isn't far off, though it would need the word "scientific" in front of it.
    Quote Originally Posted by PRE 9-11 View Post
    Accessibility, ownership, availability; these are all essentially the same thing.

  4. #4
    Again not going to go through your logs but 90% of tank deaths is in p2. When you get there have ranged kill one on the left while melee kills one on the right. This will lighten the load quite a bit on your tanks.

    After that just kill them and build traps but be sure to leave 2 up till you can get the traps built. Another thing you're going to need to focus on is telling the raiders to watch where they kite. You don't want to kite the adds through the traps on accident cause if you can't get the Reavers in traps you might as well wipe it.

  5. #5
    I'm a guardian tank who's downed this a few times now. We use a druid + dk tank. I tank 5 windblades, the DK tanks 2 reavers + windblade. When they first come out I grab the windblades + reaver from the left, while a rogue/hunter tricks/MDs the 2 other windblades over to me. Our DK taunts the reaver off when he can, it doesn't matter if it takes a few extra seconds, cooldowns are running so that 1 extra reaver shoudn't affect it.

    As retreat is about to occur, I start conserving rage. As the adds come I pop Incarnation to spam AOE to be hold threat, pop Savage Defense, and then Survival Instincts. I switch between backpedalling and strafe-kiting depending on if I have savage defense/other cooldowns running. I keep backing up and when I have to turn them around, I use either Vortex (druid talent) or Typhoon (druid talent) to knock them back and give healers breathing room. I keep trying to generate rage if a few are in melee so I can keep up savage defense. I also chain my other CD's (Barksin, Might of Ursoc, and Symbiosis boneshield.) If I see my health dip I can pop Renewal or Nature's swiftness+Healing Touch and Healthstone. The dps can also help by putting down ice trap or rogue poison aoe slow and you can run faster using Stampeding roar.

    By the time your done chaining the CD's usually almost all the adds are dead. Typhoon is on a 20 sec CD and it can be used quite a few times to give breathing room when spike damage occurs. The 3 min CD's will be up the 2nd time around if you get 2 add phases.

    Looking at the logs of your guardian, he seems to be the one dying first. Looking at specifically wipe #8 and 10.

    A) He didn't use savage defense at all during the fight on #10 and only used it once tanking the boss (none during add phase) in wipe #8. That's a big reason why he's dying. 45% more dodge is huge for tanking those adds.

    B) Didn't use any other cooldowns. Barkskin, Ursoc, Renewal or Nature's Swiftness. And who is he giving symbiosis to.

    Just another note, since we had this on farm for a while, last week we had trouble downing it cause I was dying in add phase even though I didn't change anything I did with the add phase. Switched up the healer focusing heals on me and we 1 shot it. But I don't know much about healing to evaluate logs.
    Last edited by Scubascythe; 2012-12-10 at 10:46 PM.

  6. #6
    Just refer to the above post, more informative

  7. #7
    OP you should put scuba in your raid, your actual tank seems fingerless...

    It's rare to see people giving so much detail on playstyle like scuba did, good job.

  8. #8
    Last lockout we breezed through this fight. This lockout the tank deaths caused tonnes of wipes. I wasn't dying (Guardian) but my Paladin co-tank died every pull. Finally we killed it again but it was just a stressful night.

    The pally was carrying HP for SoTR into the p2 along with GoAK and then rolling glyphed DP, AD all while maintaining high SoTR uptime. He actually died once with GoAK+SoTR up. That probably shouldn't happen and the only thing i can think of is he must have turned his back on one of them or something. Anyhow...

    Eventually we found that the difference between last week and this week is that people were being too good at keeping Windblades alive in order to maintain Sticky Amber puddle spawns. We assigned Windblades as focus targets to reduce the Paladins load and we immediately killed the boss that pull. Feel so derp for not doing that earlier.
    Last edited by sewid; 2012-12-10 at 11:34 PM.

  9. #9
    No experience on this fight, but a thought did come to me while reading. Has anyone tried MD'ing a few windblades to a Dps who stands as far as possible from them? Would that give enough time for the fixate to take effect or would that player just get slaughtered? Is a non-tank kiter not an option?

    Like I said, no experience on this fight, but I thought it might be one of those things that, while unnecessary, just might be strange enough to work.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by MoridinRavenholdt View Post
    Somehow our tanks die on almost 90% of our tries. I as a raidleader cant figure out if the healers are failing or if the tanks are failing.
    Are we doing the tactics wrong?

    Grateful for any tips or tricks
    we had this problem for about the first 2 or 3 attempts.

    then we started having 1 tank pick up a whole pack on each side, quickly zerging down 1 add from the first pack, then going and zerging down 1 add from the 2nd pack. this significantly reduced dmg taken.

    Also, we 3 heal it with 1 healer dedicated to each tank and a 3rd healer that heals raid and helps with tanks when needed.

  11. #11
    Holy jeez I can't believe I didn't catch this. I went back to check the logs. More specifically wipe #8 and 10. He doesn't use rage on savage defense. He also healed himself ZERO times using Frenzied regen (Note he does not have the glyph or else he would have gained the buff). Checked damage done, yeah he's been using rage completely on Maul.

    I'm sorry but your druid tank is pretty bad and getting carried by healers.
    Last edited by Scubascythe; 2012-12-11 at 01:41 AM.

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