Barrage vs Glaive Toss

[Nemesis003]

2 uses of GT > 1 Barrage single target (in this tier). Barrage only gets better with hitting targets that cannot be hit with Glaive Toss. And also with better weapon.

---------- Post added 2012-12-11 at 02:36 PM ----------



GT unfortunately would also not strike secondary target if it is right next to your target, but not between you and the target. You cannot have the group of adds always aligned so that your GT hits each mob. That is why I generally prefer Barrage on multiple target fights.

in my gear barrage does more damage even single target then 2 GT... the only reason i use GT is because of criting if on glaive crits it is often enough damage to win out, however without critting it always loses. With BM you really don't lose the GCDs people make it out to. for me i oftem gain time as with my haste if RF or FF is up its a sub 1 second cast.. hell at the start with RF and BL going i have had it hit 1.1...

Thinking about it i might run with it next week full time just for S&Gs...

the other thing to remember is glaives is a "skill shot" if the target moves too much both glaives won't always hit, that not something that can happen with barrrage.

[TheTrueM4gg0t]

in my gear barrage does more damage even single target then 2 GT... the only reason i use GT is because of criting if on glaive crits it is often enough damage to win out, however without critting it always loses.

if you just hope for one of the glaives to crit, so it does more damage then an average barrage, then you don't understand a lot about statistics ^^
because you know, just as a glaive can crit and do more damage, the othertime it doesn't crit and does less.
if both abilites do the similar dmg, the crits will even out an they will do similar dmg in the end.
barrage is much smoother because of the huge amount of hits.
and being lucky on sunday, with will droping normal fang at last, I have a higher ilvl on the wep (497) then the rest of the gear. probably barrage does more dmg now than GT. have to do some intenisve testing

[Imnick]

How could anyone have liked Volley? Channeled ground AOE spells are the most boring kind.

[Holtzmann]

Why? D:
Why didn't you like Volley? D:

A few reasons, really:
- It rooted us in place for what seemed like forever.
- Arrows falling from the sky when I'm shooting a gun forward just looks off.
- The damn thing simply failed to place the reticle down half the time, but still consumed mana, leading to...
- It ate mana like it was nobody's business.
- Multi Shot as Marksmanship with Thrill of the Hunt is simply much more awesome. Specially now I don't have to stop to double-cast steadies every six seconds.

[Deleted]

How could anyone have liked Volley? Channeled ground AOE spells are the most boring kind.

But "our arrows will blot out the sun!"

[Meleti]

just to make a point clear: all tier 6 talents do 100% dmg to maintarget, and 50% dmg to secondary targets. so if there's an ability that does most singeltarget damage, it also does most AoE damage.
the reason why Barrage is concidered better, because its got a higher chance to hit mobs, because it shoots in a cone in front of you, not just a line

Yeah, that would be why Barrage is better for AOE.

[Aertea]

Generally Glaive Toss is superior to Barrage. On single target it does roughly by 50% more damage. However, the more adds there are and the better you are at useing its main feature - shooting even beyond your target and in cone - the better Barrage gets comparatively to Glaive toss. Barrage wins on Mel´jarak, Will of Emperor, possibly even on heroic Feng, even though you will most likely only have 3 waves of adds (or four), is very good if you are assigned to go to Spirit world in Garajal. You can hit all the spark on Elegon with it, although only two times per each Draw Power phase so I would stick with GT here. Zor'lok and Ta'yak is GT all the way. On Garalon id go with Barrage, same as Mel'jarak, Un'sok and Shek'zeer. And in Terrace you may want Barrage for Tsulong - it might be useful in Day phase. For the rest of bosses you want to go with GT.

The problem is you're doing a straight up comparison to Glaive vs Barrage, and I don't believe it is really that simple.

A lot of these fights, specifically Wind Lord, Will, Gara'jal (if you're doing spirits), H Feng seem to favor Survival. Situations that favor Survival due so due to the viability of Multi-Shot/SrS spreading, which also causes them to lean towards Thrill of the Hunt. Glaive Toss synergizes with Thrill better (cheap, instant and usable twice as often to bait procs).

Thus even in many situations where Barrage might do more in straight damage than Glaive, I wouldn't be sure it leads to more overall DPS.

[Deepfriedegg]

The problem is you're doing a straight up comparison to Glaive vs Barrage, and I don't believe it is really that simple.

A lot of these fights, specifically Wind Lord, Will, Gara'jal (if you're doing spirits), H Feng seem to favor Survival. Situations that favor Survival due so due to the viability of Multi-Shot/SrS spreading, which also causes them to lean towards Thrill of the Hunt. Glaive Toss synergizes with Thrill better (cheap, instant and usable twice as often to bait procs).

Thus even in many situations where Barrage might do more in straight damage than Glaive, I wouldn't be sure it leads to more overall DPS.

I dont think "cheap" is relevant because focus cost of 2xGT = 1 Barrage. Anyway, you indeed have twice higher chance to proc TotH.

On the other hand, Barrage is a godsend for proccing your trinkets. You hit every target 15 times.
At 30% crit chance, chance to proc Relic of Xuen from a shot is mere 6%. Barrage has it 60% (1-(0.94^15)) on single target, 85% on two targets and 94% on three targets.

[Deleted]

A few reasons, really:
- It rooted us in place for what seemed like forever.
- Arrows falling from the sky when I'm shooting a gun forward just looks off.
- The damn thing simply failed to place the reticle down half the time, but still consumed mana, leading to...
- It ate mana like it was nobody's business.
- Multi Shot as Marksmanship with Thrill of the Hunt is simply much more awesome. Specially now I don't have to stop to double-cast steadies every six seconds.

What if they fixed it up?
30 Focus cost, Barrage being Gun only, Volley animation for Bow and Xbow.
Being essentially the same skill, just giving bows and xbows the 'Blot out the sun' animation?

[Nikoangel]

Barrage vs Glaive Toss single target is close, but Barrage is dominant for AoE. In LFR all the Survival hunters are at the top of the meters on the giant trash packs at the beginning of MV and HoF. I'm almost always the only hunter using barrage, and usually I am 50-100k more than the Surv hunters weaving in their Glaives. The key for me seems to be using Barrage while trash has trap and SS DoTs from Serpent Spread ticking on them. Barrage seems to really spike the meters on trash with DoTs compared to opening with it.

[Deleted]

Barrage vs Glaive Toss single target is close, but Barrage is dominant for AoE. In LFR all the Survival hunters are at the top of the meters on the giant trash packs at the beginning of MV and HoF. I'm almost always the only hunter using barrage, and usually I am 50-100k more than the Surv hunters weaving in their Glaives. The key for me seems to be using Barrage while trash has trap and SS DoTs from Serpent Spread ticking on them. Barrage seems to really spike the meters on trash with DoTs compared to opening with it.

The quillens at the start of MSV aside (because of the AoE reduction and Serpent Sting mechanics), I seem to be extremely close to Survival Hunters with Glaive Toss as Beast Mastery with Barrage on short AoE trash packs. I didn't actually do any math because I simply don't understand the math behind Glaive Toss* but it seems like Barrage is an absolute godsend for short AoE bursts.

*While we're on the subject, does anyone know the math behind Glaive Toss? I can't seem to figure out the formula behind the ability.