Aren't you making the game for your players?

[foxHeart]

The players don't know what they want.

And what Blizz wants changes arbitrarily every expansion.

[Kelimbror]

GC is an ass, but he is completely right on that point. MMOs have evolved into some weird dialogue between the players and the developers at the expense of a lot of needed barriers. Whether it was their fault or ours for breaking down the third wall, it's gone now. Going from Cata to Mists proved that some listening capacity makes a great improvement in the game. How far that takes us is anyone's guess.

I certainly wouldn't be playing if forum goers had a larger say in the game.

---------- Post added 2012-12-11 at 12:06 PM ----------

And what Blizz wants changes arbitrarily every expansion.

And by that you mean, flip flops...since they directly go back on their stated ideology every xpac. See: "We don't want to make any acitivity too good, or else you will feel like you have to do it"....bring on MoP and that ideal is eradicated in astounding fashion.

[sandmoth12]

And what Blizz wants changes arbitrarily every expansion.

Actually I believe blizz main ideas do not change enough from expansion to expansion. They shuffle around small ideas a lot, but their man ideas largely stay the same and refuse to evolve.

They are trying to build a skyscraper on a foundation of patch work cement.

[PaladinBash]

Healers were all made massively overpowered in PVP in MoP. They don't have to fear interrupt locksouts because they're all 15s or higher, they don't have to have to kite well or anything. That led to the only way to kill them being through chain CCs or Warriors blowing all CDs alongside a Chaos Bolt crit and globalling them which isn't fun for the healers themselves. Chances are that when those things are nerfed (like Gag Order was), healers will just laugh even more at everyone that isn't a Warrior or Warlock (or formerly a Hunter til they got recently nerfed). That will lead to healers eventually being butchered and zerged down by anyone and mass instant CC being the only way to stop that burst.

So I predict.

[Deleted]

Healers were all made massively overpowered in PVP in MoP. They don't have to fear interrupt locksouts because they're all 15s or higher, they don't have to have to kite well or anything. That led to the only way to kill them being through chain CCs or Warriors blowing all CDs alongside a Chaos Bolt crit and globalling them which isn't fun for the healers themselves. Chances are that when those things are nerfed (like Gag Order was), healers will just laugh even more at everyone that isn't a Warrior or Warlock (or formerly a Hunter til they got recently nerfed). That will lead to healers eventually being butchered and zerged down by anyone and mass instant CC being the only way to stop that burst.

So I predict.

Healers are the true pvp tanks. They have the cooldowns to shrug off massive damage, the abilities to recover from damage and their healing spells have a player Taunt attached to it. Some healers even have great damage potential these days, like resto druids and resto shamans.

[Stede]

I dont' understand why PR let's him have a platform. Ghostcrawler isn't just an unimitigated asshole, he's also an unapologetic dumbass - which you can tell by his recent comments on crit for rogues and the removal of Cold blood. He just doesn't know wtf he's talking about half the time, so it's like he just decides to be a prick instead.

I read Street's drivel and think of how bad the game is. I read Chilton's interviews and think how awesome it is.

[Kantoro]

That's GC for you, ego above all else.

[Osmeric]

Of course, Tom Chilton also confessed (in the NY Times) that they didn't know what the players want either. This was after Cataclysm was so poorly received.

[averykey]

If you want an example of what happens when Devs listen to much to what players want see Death Knights at the beginning of Wrath. They listened too much to beta feedback and when DKs came out they were horribly overpowered.

It the game designers job to balance the class with the rest of the game, the players had a lot of great ideas and that is why death knight is such a fun class to play.
No reason to blame the players for the short comings of the designers.

[bionics]

Healers were all made massively overpowered in PVP in MoP. They don't have to fear interrupt locksouts because they're all 15s or higher, they don't have to have to kite well or anything. That led to the only way to kill them being through chain CCs or Warriors blowing all CDs alongside a Chaos Bolt crit and globalling them which isn't fun for the healers themselves. Chances are that when those things are nerfed (like Gag Order was), healers will just laugh even more at everyone that isn't a Warrior or Warlock (or formerly a Hunter til they got recently nerfed). That will lead to healers eventually being butchered and zerged down by anyone and mass instant CC being the only way to stop that burst.

So I predict.

Unless you're a pally who already used his bubble, of course. Then you get CC chained to Hell and back.

[MasterHamster]

Players don't know what they want. It's not a democracy.
If it was, the game would be stalled because everyone would vote against major changes and think new additions are a waste of time.

So his answer is perfectly reasonable.

[Blackmist]

GC is correct. Game design is not something the layman can do. Most of these people have years of experience, and even then it's not guaranteed to be brilliant first time. Throw "other players" into your gameplay mixing pot and and pretty much the only thing that you can rely on is people being dicks.

Also, they are making games for all the players. Not just the ones who shout loudest. If you think another class is so great, go roll one. You'll soon find that grass looking distinctively less green. Everyone thinks they are underpowered all the time. Only if a class is massively OP do they ever concede that they are "about right"...

[checking facts]

GC's worst mistake ever happened on WotLK. he listened to what the beta testers had to say, and they kept asking for DK buffs. in the end, DKs got extremely overpowered, and it took the whole expansion to nerf them into balance.

does he listen to feedback? yes. does he have to do exactly what feedback says? no. he has to use his own tools and sense of critic to determine if the feedback is appropriate or not.

[rowaasr13]

There is not a single good thing about required attunements, and that concept should never ever be brought back.

But what "bad" is there in them? If current dailies are "okay" by devs, then how an attunement that takes one evening of dedication is bad?

The single attunement that was longer is probably Hyjal, but you would've long done it anyway if you wanted to come there in suitable gear.
And JFYI, we DO have an attunement right now in T14.

[SherbertLand]

The community isn't smart enough to make suggestions game designers can use.

[averykey]

Players don't know what they want. It's not a democracy.
If it was, the game would be stalled because everyone would vote against major changes and think new additions are a waste of time.

So his answer is perfectly reasonable.

I don't think that's true at all.

Take a look at these polls, players have an idea of what they want. The games designers just need to elaborate on existing ideas from players and themselves, and also improve old ideas.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...rve-a-4th-spec
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ck-as-Warchief

I have seen lots of suggestions on the official forums and the mmochampion forums about how to fix cross realm zones.
They're a lot of threads with bad feedback, but I don't see any ideas from the developers, it seems to me like they're ignoring the problems with it.

Developers need to share the ideas they have with the game to get feedback from the players.

[SherbertLand]

But what "bad" is there in them? If current dailies are "okay" by devs, then how an attunement that takes one evening of dedication is bad?

The single attunement that was longer is probably Hyjal, but you would've long done it anyway if you wanted to come there in suitable gear.
And JFYI, we DO have an attunement right now in T14.

What attunement is there in tier 14? Completing Heart of Fear to get into Terrace is NOT an attunement.

[averykey]

GC's worst mistake ever happened on WotLK. he listened to what the beta testers had to say, and they kept asking for DK buffs. in the end, DKs got extremely overpowered, and it took the whole expansion to nerf them into balance.

does he listen to feedback? yes. does he have to do exactly what feedback says? no. he has to use his own tools and sense of critic to determine if the feedback is appropriate or not.

See my last post.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post19407300

His post on twitter suggest he is not willing to listen to feedback, no one ever said he had to listen; just to consider.

[SherbertLand]

See my last post.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post19407300

His post on twitter suggest he is not willing to listen to feedback, no one ever said he had to listen; just to consider.

Considering and doing nothing will get the same response as him just ignoring feedback.

[Deleted]

It seems completely abritrary who they listen to and when. During the Cata beta testing they weren't having any of the criticisms with many problems, but they quickly change philosophies on a sudden whim. I'm surprised so many people on the official forums appear to go along with this, I'm aware it's mostly a dichotomy between rabid haters and intoxicated fans on there but this is what sticks out to me the most about the whole "listening to players feedback" issue.