Second wind needs changing. Now.

[Deleted]

Seen well geared prot warriors go fine in heroics with no healer, let alone how abysmal it is to PvP against without an execute type ability.

[Moradim]

it isnt just that second wind is strong.

it's that you get passive healing, behind 25% passive DR (d stance), and you still have to get through DBTS, shield wall, and the DR banner.

[r3as0n]

Warrior Burst is too insane; Nerf TFB stacks to 3
Warrior Burst still out of control, Nerf TFB stacks to 1
Warrior has to much control; i can't cast anything, gag order nerf
Warrior has too much mobility; Avatar nerf plus rage gain

Second Wind is healing too much; how do you think everyone felt when rogues can just recoup and pillar hump; vanish etc all day?

PvP isn't balanced on 1v1 or dueling therefore there is no reason a class should be nerf to the ground just for the sake of your epeen.

PvP Balance is more focus on 3v3 arena and Battlegrounds; i'm currently 2450 experience and 2200 currently in 3v3 running WLS and we face 2400 rated teams all the time. Chain CC eventually happen and i almost always die in a deep freeze or get finished of by the shadow priest.

398k hp
63% resil
Second Wind starts ticking at 130k HP

Deep Freeze = can't reflect
Frost Bomb hits for 120k thru 25% dmg reduction from defensive stance
10k hp left; throw in another spell from; mage, druid or priest gg.

even as prot in arena, 2 people can kill you. RBG = u die obviously from 10 people hitting you.

stop asking for nerfs because you can't win a 1v1 vs a warrior.

--

[Rahynn]

Just make it like cheat death, can only be activated once every minute for like 20seconds or something.

[r3as0n]

Just make it like cheat death, can only be activated once every minute for like 20seconds or something.

just give warrior life swap so we can troll players in bg.

[Quaztro]

Second Wind is fine. The game is balanced around 3v3. If you have 2 DPS that can't kill through it, you're doing something wrong.

Also - Feral most OP class now after hotfix so shat ittt

[Drakoes]

You forgot the part where they also have 25% passive damage reduction, because they can sit in defensive stance.

Top warriors like reckful are doing this without hesitation, so this isn't an excuse either for even more survivabiility

[hellboyy]

warriors seem to do more healing with this than blood dks now in pvp.

[Playintrafic]

Does it matter? PvP matters as much as pet battles.

[xChurch]

Just complain about it enough and it will get changed. It worked for TfB in spite of them saying it wasn't a problem since getting to 5 stacks would be highly unlikely. Guess some won't truly be happy until warriors get so nerfed they become the hunters of MoP.

[Dispirit]

it should act like cheat death for rogues...can only proc once every minute or so and lasts like 5 seconds. that's all they have to do to balance it in my opinion.

[Alihu]

Why does everyone want to just ruin the warrior class. I get the burst is out of control but now they are nerfing us left and right. Then on top of it people are calling for shockwave on a higher CD, which fucks with PvE and now second wind. When im in arenas, its not hard for people to break through second wind, sure you can't stop us 1v1, but this isn't based on 1v1. People just want us to be like last season, when warriors arenaing was 1%, only for us to call nerfs and be met with QQ and L2P

[Rorke]

it isnt just that second wind is strong.

it's that you get passive healing, behind 25% passive DR (d stance), and you still have to get through DBTS, shield wall, and the DR banner.

I think 25% defensive stance is fine. It is a god damm Warrior.

Seriously, some of you just want to bring the class back to its former Cataclysm survivability so you can train the Warrior all game as a free kill. Its absolutely hilarious that a Feral Druid is the OP and is mad about this. Probably misses his God Mode Cataclysm survivability already.

I'm fine with Warriors being more tanky than other melee. I still however, think that they need a mobility nerf to Heroic Leap and a Shockwave nerf.

[Deleted]

Does it matter? PvP matters as much as pet battles.

i take my pet battles very seriously.

[Grim32]

I'm starting to realise. How prot warriors became the mess they are now, with all these threads. Seriously? A ability seems OP, you have NOTHING to counter it? I doubt that.

-Grim

[Yvaelle]

It's hilarious when lead developers think that they know something about whatever they are developing, when it is obvious to everyone else that random forum posters is where true wisdom is found.

ps
nerf warriors!

In the defense of random forum posters, most of us spend more time - and therefore have more experience - actually playing the game in its current live state, than most developers: true for all games. Developers need to develop the game as their job, that doesn't mean running arenas and rbgs all day - that means they go to work and spend 8+ hours a day 5 days a week thinking about game stuff without necessarily actually experiencing it for themselves. When a PTR comes out, the developers all swap off live servers to play the PTR to test the new changes, this can mean they aren't actually in touch with how the game is on live. When their work day ends - they often don't go home and play the game they spent all day thinking about, they may play games - but almost always other games (which can be good, because it widens their perspective and experience as a dev).

By contrast, people who take a game seriously enough to post thousands of comments on specific forum subsections, specific to one class and all specific to one game - are almost invariably a fanatic of that game/class/sphere of gameplay - and are also devoting considerable time in their life to playing that class/game. While being a developer is a credential of weight about how much you know about a game, its direction and theory - it doesn't in and of itself make you an expert in all aspects (classes or spheres) of a game at all skill levels - often it can even be a detriment (as explained in the first paragraph) compared to the relative devotion and experience of the fanatics who play the game solely out of obcession / love, not just as a paycheck (and even if both for the love and the paycheck, their time is still devoted to duty more than actual experience).

[corebit]

Warrior are already nerfed enough. I even advocated many of the warrior nerfs, but these complaints are going way overboard. Warriors have received straight nerf after nerf since the expansion started. We need to take a wait and see approach at this point instead of foaming at the mouth like lunatics.

Second Wind is fine. If you can't outDPS the warrior during Second Wind and he is still in battle stance then it's a L2P issue. If he's in Second Wind and D-stance, then he' s doing no damage to you or your team-mates, and the warrior can no longer fish for TFB procs during that time either, so no more sudden burst once he switches back to battle stance.

[Juno86]

I'm a Feral player myself. I've seen enough Warriors live through my sustained damage (rape, rip and shreds).

I don't usually PvP myself, haven't played Druid all that much, but did you just say you have an ability called "rape"? Because if you do, Blizzard has got some serious balls.

[RoKPaNda]

I don't care if they change how it works in PvP somehow, but if they change it for PvE warriors aren't going to be able to solo anything in PvE. Sadly that is the only thing that allows warriors to solo some of the older content that most other classes are easily soloing, and some of the MoP content that just about every other class can easily solo.

Maybe it's too strong in PvP, kind of doubt it, but maybe it is ... Just don't change it in a way that breaks PvE for warriors. Heh.

[Yvaelle]

On topic, since I realize I got a little off there.

A second wind nerf is totally not necessary, the TfB nerf was what I was really hoping for, it happened - the avatar nerf is a great change that doesn't affect the warrior in the right comp and with the right play - but does give people a means of countering warrior burst synergy - that's an increase in skill and preparation on both sides (both teams) and I'm entirely in favour of both the avatar nerf and the TfB nerf. Second Wind is exactly what brought warriors out of the weak position they were in in Cataclysm: it needs to stay.

In Cata, the risk with warriors was that good swaps would score kills on them consistently - warriors were relatively frail compared to other melee classes. You would swap to them, they would go defensive/shield wall, you would swap off - you would swap back after shield wall and they would very often die, if they didn't - you just rode them until they did - because they were out of options at that point. Second Wind gives Warriors the survivability they need to be competitive with other melee, it has to remain as powerful as it is or it becomes meaningless.

If Warriors prove to still be too good after the TfB hotfix today, then any further nerfs should be to the cooldown of Shockwave (which is a control and survivability nerf, if that appears to be a continuing problem) or to Avatar / Recklessness stacking and/or Recklessness / Skull Banner - and only in rated pvp if that must occur.

The TfB nerf is perfect at this point - and I think Warriors are pretty much spot on. I suspect a shockwave cooldown nerf is a possibility in 5.2, and could see justification for the cooldown synergy nerf above (they can more than double their damage by popping all three right now), but think that it's less likely than a potential shockwave nerf, which is I'd give a 60% chance of occurring in 5.2: but only if warriors prove to still be too good after today (which is maybe a 50% chance of happening).