Anduin/Operation Shieldwall (Major Spoiler)!

[Trassk]

he could just be chaotic with out the sha to begin with.. as i havent gotten that far yet. was the smoke just grey. or they grey white black bubbly smoke we see associated with sha

I've yet to see it ingame myself, but there was something darker about Garrosh's form, I think his skintone was grayer.

[Okacz]

Seriously? Just... no, just don't. Anduin saved more lives that day when you think, he saved your life, the horde player, in helping against Ishi, and he saved the lives of so many of the orc soldiers there who Garrosh was willing to sacrifice for his insane plan.
Him attacking anduin IS bad, its what a villain does when an heroic character saves people.

Well, but think from Garroshes perspective. You don't have a hero who saved everybodys life, probably even Garroshes. You see a brat who spoiled all great plans to win a war with a quick move. I know, this was a pretty bad plan, but Garrosh thought it was perfect. So when Garrosh attacked him, he attacked his enemy who acted against him. Logical, and it suprises me that Garrosh spared his life. Well, it does not, the playerbase would freak out, and Blizzard is scared shitless when it comes to confronting forums.

And, about the "he is just a young, underage, cute boy, how could he, mean orc" thing: Anduin is acting on his own for the whole expansion. So far he simply pisses me off (his only quotes are like "don't do this, it's mean! Don't you know war is bad?" - how more cluche can you get?), but I kinda admire that he decided to mature and take responsibility for his actions. His clash with Garrosh is not a kid in tantrum attacking a "mean orc", it's a well planned attempt - a successfull one - to stop him from doing something that could cause casualities. He acted, he succeeded, and he clearly saw it coming that Garrosh wouldn't say "damn, you've got me there, congratulations pal!". Garrosh attacked an enemy - not a civilian, not a child. Don't see anything clearly evil there.

[Thage]

As often as the juggling inmate and I disagree, he's right here. Anduin knew what he was doing and he made himself an enemy (and it's not like he's helpless. He was shown to be a very talented archer in the comics and in Varian's short story, Wolfheart, and in both Cataclysm and Mists of Pandaria he's a skilled priest). While I personally find Anduin's rationale regarding how pants-on-head goofy the Alliance and Horde devoting themselves to infighting is to be a breath of fresh air, Garrosh isn't exactly in the wrong here (outside the horrifically immoral plan Anduin foiled and Garrosh's general madness and sociopathy) when he attacks an enemy who just fucked up his plan.

[checking facts]

So it would be better if Lordaeron was swarmed before Jaina could evacuate.

you just made me imagine jaina doing the grizzly hills poop quest lol

[Verdugo]

you just made me imagine jaina doing the grizzly hills poop quest lol

Great, evacuate joins the ranks of words like "twilight" and "honor" for me, words I cant take seriously.

[Trassk]

As often as the juggling inmate and I disagree, he's right here. Anduin knew what he was doing and he made himself an enemy (and it's not like he's helpless. He was shown to be a very talented archer in the comics and in Varian's short story, Wolfheart, and in both Cataclysm and Mists of Pandaria he's a skilled priest). While I personally find Anduin's rationale regarding how pants-on-head goofy the Alliance and Horde devoting themselves to infighting is to be a breath of fresh air, Garrosh isn't exactly in the wrong here (outside the horrifically immoral plan Anduin foiled and Garrosh's general madness and sociopathy) when he attacks an enemy who just fucked up his plan.

It isn't that I'm arguing about what Garrosh did. I'm not implying that Garrosh should suddenly thank Anduin and say 'Wow Anduin, your right, I was so wrong here thank you for stopping me from doing a terrible thing', that isn't the point, Garrosh is showing his villian side, that he's the bad guy. What i just find remarkable is how player would even consider looking at this from Garrosh's perspective, after what he just did, that the player would even remotely consider Garrosh as anything but insane or corrupt to the core is beyond belief.

[iamthedevil]

Anduin breaking the bell actually rang the bell, which is why Garrosh was stunned. Anduin is the reason that Garrosh is soon to become a Sha superpower... or something...

Everybody thank Anduin.

[Okacz]

It isn't that I'm arguing about what Garrosh did. I'm not implying that Garrosh should suddenly thank Anduin and say 'Wow Anduin, your right, I was so wrong here thank you for stopping me from doing a terrible thing', that isn't the point, Garrosh is showing his villian side, that he's the bad guy. What i just find remarkable is how player would even consider looking at this from Garrosh's perspective, after what he just did, that the player would even remotely consider Garrosh as anything but insane or corrupt to the core is beyond belief.

And... why would you even consider looking at this from a different perspective? If Garrosh knew that using this bell would cause people around, with him involved, to die and/or become sha monstrocities, and EVEN THEN use the bell, well, then he would be totally insane, and following him would be even more. But from HIS PERSPECTIVE ringing this bell would bring profit. Easy one - more powerful soldiers, a chance to crush Alliance. I would sign up for that. The problem is that, in his pride and stupidity, he did not do enough research, and he didn't really understand the resoults of the research he already did. Therefore, I can't consider him insane, I can consider him foolish. Which still doesn't do anything with the fact that striking down Anduin was, well, pretty rational thing at that moment.

You can't just watch those things from narrators perspective. It does not work like this.

[checking facts]

Anduin breaking the bell actually rang the bell, which is why Garrosh was stunned. Anduin is the reason that Garrosh is soon to become a Sha superpower... or something...

Everybody thank Anduin.

garrosh broke the bell and anduin with a single blow. anduin didn't break it, he just negated it's effect.

[Trassk]

And... why would you even consider looking at this from a different perspective? If Garrosh knew that using this bell would cause people around, with him involved, to die and/or become sha monstrocities, and EVEN THEN use the bell, well, then he would be totally insane, and following him would be even more. But from HIS PERSPECTIVE ringing this bell would bring profit. Easy one - more powerful soldiers, a chance to crush Alliance. I would sign up for that. The problem is that, in his pride and stupidity, he did not do enough research, and he didn't really understand the resoults of the research he already did. Therefore, I can't consider him insane, I can consider him foolish. Which still doesn't do anything with the fact that striking down Anduin was, well, pretty rational thing at that moment.

You can't just watch those things from narrators perspective. It does not work like this.

You've forgotten several points in your argument -

1 - Before the event with the bell, you, the players character, witnessed as Garrosh's assassin stabbed vol'jin, who told you he would go into hiding, and you need to watch Garrosh for what he does.
2 - You go to Thrall, tell him what has happened, and then fight and kill Garrosh's kor'kohn on the echo isles to free the darkspears.
3 - You witness a sha manifestation being taken to Silvermoon and escapes, corrupting those around it, before you kill it, and lor'themar tells you he is considering leaving the horde because of Garrosh.

All this preceeds the event with the bell. As these events have unfolded, you, the player character, are more or less an agent watching Garrosh in what he does. You stand there fighting and killing corrupted orc solders that Garrosh is sacrificing for his experiments.

And, if Anduin was the enemy you claim, you would have been able to attack him when she showed to stop Garrosh. If you have played all though pandaria, you as horde would have sided with Anduin in the krasarang wilds, so your character has a better understanding of who Anduin is then Garrosh does.

If you honestly thing there was anything rational about anything Garrosh did with the divine bell event, your off your rocker.

[Okacz]

You've forgotten several points in your argument -

1 - Before the event with the bell, you, the players character, witnessed as Garrosh's assassin stabbed vol'jin, who told you he would go into hiding, and you need to watch Garrosh for what he does.
2 - You go to Thrall, tell him what has happened, and then fight and kill Garrosh's kor'kohn on the echo isles to free the darkspears.
3 - You witness a sha manifestation being taken to Silvermoon and escapes, corrupting those around it, before you kill it, and lor'themar tells you he is considering leaving the horde because of Garrosh.

All this preceeds the event with the bell. As these events have unfolded, you, the player character, are more or less an agent watching Garrosh in what he does. You stand there fighting and killing corrupted orc solders that Garrosh is sacrificing for his experiments.

And, if Anduin was the enemy you claim, you would have been able to attack him when she showed to stop Garrosh. If you have played all though pandaria, you as horde would have sided with Anduin in the krasarang wilds, so your character has a better understanding of who Anduin is then Garrosh does.

If you honestly thing there was anything rational about anything Garrosh did with the divine bell event, your off your rocker.

I actually have the loremaster of Pandaria thing, I've played this thing through. Still I hate Anduin. As a character. Sometimes a kind of "deus ex machina" 2dimensional hero is just not that interesting. Especially if he looks like this.

Second thing, all those things you stated... Well, it's the player character who knows all this. You know how bad are Sha, you know what havoc may they cause when used as a weapon. Garrosh Hellscream knows only 2 things: some of his soldiers are too weak to maintain it, and Blood Elves have no clue about it whatsoever. His move to use an untested thing he barely knows how to use is foolish indeed - but frankly speaking, it is the player character who knows that this is a beggining of a disaster, not Garrosh. So, why are we helping him? Horde player, knowing all this stuff, should leap in desperation on Garrosh, knowing that his using the bell will annihilate everyone around. And no, Spirit Healers are not in the lore.

And by the way: Anduin is an essence of Alliance. Everything he does says "Alliance" no matter how much is he speaking about neutrality. And yet he is the guy you are constantly supporting and praising as a character. No offense, but are you sure you picked the right side?

[Trassk]

I actually have the loremaster of Pandaria thing, I've played this thing through. Still I hate Anduin. As a character. Sometimes a kind of "deus ex machina" 2dimensional hero is just not that interesting. Especially if he looks like this.

Yeah I kind of realized by this point you have your own definition of what characters and the type of characters you like in this kind of story, so its pointless trying to debate with you.

[Okacz]

Yeah I kind of realized by this point you have your own definition of what characters and the type of characters you like in this kind of story, so its pointless trying to debate with you.

Shame then. Nice hat.

[iamthedevil]

garrosh broke the bell and anduin with a single blow. anduin didn't break it, he just negated it's effect.

It seemed to me that mallet was what did it, since its purpose was to negate the bell. Garrosh wouldn't have just broken the bell after spending that much time retrieving it. The bell was built up to be this ultimate weapon that required being hidden away for thousands of years.... and then it does nothing useful and breaks? That doesn't seem right.

[checking facts]

It seemed to me that mallet was what did it, since its purpose was to negate the bell. Garrosh wouldn't have just broken the bell after spending that much time retrieving it. The bell was built up to be this ultimate weapon that required being hidden away for thousands of years.... and then it does nothing useful and breaks? That doesn't seem right.

when anduin hits it with the mallet, it starts irradiating light and negating the sha, but nothing happens to the bell itself. when garrosh hits it with his weapon, it shatters the bell and anduin's bones. thge pieces of the bell fell on top of anduin and buried him lol

the point is that as an ultimate weapon, the bell proved to be useless. if just by hitting it with a special hammer it stops working, than the alliance would just make lots of special hammers to counter it. the pandaren made one, why can't the alliance copy it and make more?

garrosh won't give up on the sha, but he gave up on the bell. that's why he decided to bury anduin with it lol

[Scummer]

when anduin hits it with the mallet, it starts irradiating light and negating the sha, but nothing happens to the bell itself. when garrosh hits it with his weapon, it shatters the bell and anduin's bones. thge pieces of the bell fell on top of anduin and buried him lol

the point is that as an ultimate weapon, the bell proved to be useless. if just by hitting it with a special hammer it stops working, than the alliance would just make lots of special hammers to counter it. the pandaren made one, why can't the alliance copy it and make more?

The mallet just changes the ringing from what I saw and read.
It doesn't nullify it forever as far as we know. Not to mention that to counter it you have to be next to a bell.
It was hardly a futile effort on the Horde's part.

Although I am glad that for a change one of Garrosh's tricks is actually foiled.

[Stiven]

In the end Garrosh say he will learn to control the power of Sha... I do wonder how he will master it, since the bell is destroyed ?

[huth]

It seemed to me that mallet was what did it, since its purpose was to negate the bell. Garrosh wouldn't have just broken the bell after spending that much time retrieving it. The bell was built up to be this ultimate weapon that required being hidden away for thousands of years.... and then it does nothing useful and breaks? That doesn't seem right.

It did what it was supposed to. Garrosh just didn't understand how to use it correctly, and did not have the correct resources to actually do so.

[checking facts]

In the end Garrosh say he will learn to control the power of Sha... I do wonder how he will master it, since the bell is destroyed ?

we've seen people going all sha empowered ever since we've landed in pandaria. the bell is a tool to spread sha, but it's not the only way to invoke and make use of it. remember the korune guys who weave the sha? they didn't use the bell for that.

[Trassk]

In the end Garrosh say he will learn to control the power of Sha... I do wonder how he will master it, since the bell is destroyed ?

Garrosh is an egotistical tyrant. He believes nothing is beyond his control, as you heard in the divine bell event.

He's created this idea that because the sha are powerful, and not demonic, they must be a power he can control without giving into demons. Yet we all know the sha don't work that way, they only grow stronger the more you negative emotion rages, and the more stronger they become, the more they can warp and corrupt you.
Garrosh is a giant fool, be thinks he can control the world.

I am going to be so happy when they reveal his fate.