Season of Discovery Hotfixes - April 16
Season of Discovery Hotfixes - 16 April
May be stop wasting resoures on experiments?
Rank the Dragonflight Dungeons (beyond knee-jerk reactions)
MMO-Champion
So we've gone from... Too big to fail. Then too big to let fail. Are really at too big to jail?
What's next, too big to bail?
Federal officials expressed pride when they announced their $1.9 billion money-laundering settlement with HSBC.
But almost as soon as the news broke Tuesday, critics repeated the questions familiar in cases involving big banks: Why wasn't HSBC indicted, and why aren't any individuals being held responsible?
The deal "makes a mockery of the criminal justice system," said Jimmy Gurulé, a law professor at Notre Dame and former assistant attorney general. As part of an agreement deferring its prosecution, HSBC admitted that executives for years ignored warning signs that drug cartels in Mexico were using its branches to launder hundreds of millions of dollars through the U.S. The bank also acknowledged that its international staff had stripped identifying information on transactions through the U.S. from countries including Iran and Sudan in order to evade sanctions.
To make matters worse, HSBC received multiple warnings. U.S. regulators ordered the bank in 2003 to strengthen its anti-money laundering controls, and did so again in 2010 after finding it had continued to ignore suspicious transactions. "The record of dysfunction that prevailed at HSBC for many years was astonishing," said Assistant Attorney General Lanny Breuer. "Today, HSBC is paying a heavy price for its conduct." Even though the settlement includes the largest forfeiture ever in a case involving a bank, there's debate over whether it truly represents a "heavy price." "There appears to be an exception for employees of large banks that have engaged in particularly serious and egregious violations of the law," Gurulé said. "That's an insane policy."
Besides the penalty, a record for money-laundering cases in the U.S., Breuer said HSBC compliance officials have had their bonuses clawed back, and most of HSBC's senior management has been replaced since the conduct at issue, which stretched from the mid-1990s to 2010. "The HSBC of today is a fundamentally different organization from the one that made those mistakes," HSBC CEO Stuart Gulliver said in a statement Tuesday.
Breuer hinted that one reason the U.S. might resist criminal prosecution of HSBC is concern that it could prompt the loss of the bank's U.S. charter and the shuttering of operations here. There is precedent: Nick Harbist, a white-collar defense lawyer and former federal prosecutor, said law enforcement officials have been reluctant to indict companies since accounting firm Arthur Andersen essentially collapsed a decade ago -- taking down 25,000 jobs -- after being convicted in connection with the Enron scandal. The conviction was later overturned by the Supreme Court.
"Our goal here is not to bring HSBC down, it's not to cause a systemic effect on the economy, it's not for people to lose thousands of jobs," Breuer said. "The innocent people who would suffer don't deserve that." HSBC could still be prosecuted if it violates the terms of its agreement with the government, and the deferred prosecution doesn't preclude cases against individuals. While Breuer didn't rule such cases out, he offered little to suggest they're being built. With respect to the Mexican transactions, he characterized the problem as corporate negligence.
"As bad as HSBC's conduct was, this is not a case where the HSBC people intended -- intended -- to create money laundering," he said. "They did not have the controls in place that they needed." As for the transfers from countries under sanctions, Breuer suggested that the guilty individuals at London-based HSBC might not be subject to the relevant U.S. laws. "There's no allegation that in the United States, where the people have the obligation, that they were aware of what was going on. Rather, our theory of this case ... is that the parent hid this from those in the United States," he said. "We are now holding the parent responsible for conduct that doesn't violate British law -- it violates American law."
HSBC's settlement dwarfs penalties in other recent money-laundering cases, though the $1.9 billion it will pay to the government is just a fraction of its $16.8 billion in profit last year. The burden ultimately falls to the bank's shareholders, but investors shrugged off the news, sending HSBC (HBC) shares 0.6% higher Tuesday in London and New York.
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Thread: Too big to jail?
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2012-12-12, 10:32 PM #1Immortal
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Too big to jail?
Sir Robin, the Not-Quite-So-Brave-As-Sir-Lancelot.
Who had nearly fought the Dragon of Angnor.
Who had almost stood up to the vicious Chicken of Bristol.
And who had personally wet himself, at the Battle of Badon Hill.
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2012-12-12, 10:35 PM #2The Unstoppable Force
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At least HSBC actually penalized their people for it.
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2012-12-12, 10:43 PM #3Herald of the Titans
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Damn it, I thought this thread was going to be about a dude who was too fat for a jail cell.
Son, I am disappoint.When survival is the goal, it's into the spider hole!
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2012-12-12, 10:45 PM #4Stood in the Fire
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This.
Originally Posted by Beavis
/10char
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2012-12-12, 10:46 PM #5Merely a Setback
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Isn't Sarbanes-Oxley supposed to result in criminal penalties for executives involved in this sort of thing? I guess that's only for public American companies?
'Twas a cutlass swipe or an ounce of lead
Or a yawing hole in a battered head
And the scuppers clogged with rotting red
And there they lay I damn me eyes
All lookouts clapped on Paradise
All souls bound just contrarywise, yo ho ho and a bottle of rum!
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2012-12-12, 10:47 PM #6The Unstoppable Force
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Yeah, won't lie that was my initial thought too. I was even quietly contemplating what kind of crime a humungous fat dude could have committed. Then Mr. Robin ruined my dreams with some bank bullshit. Shame on him. Originally Posted by Beavis
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2012-12-12, 10:49 PM #7Immortal
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You have fallen for my diabolical trap. Muahahaha Originally Posted by TradewindNQ
Now to make a thread about sewing titled "poking and pulling."
Sir Robin, the Not-Quite-So-Brave-As-Sir-Lancelot.
Who had nearly fought the Dragon of Angnor.
Who had almost stood up to the vicious Chicken of Bristol.
And who had personally wet himself, at the Battle of Badon Hill.
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2012-12-12, 10:51 PM #8The Unstoppable Force
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NO! This can't go on...the line must be drawn here! This far, no further! Originally Posted by SirRobin
You have fallen for my diabolical trap. Muahahaha
Now to make a thread about sewing titled "poking and pulling."
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2012-12-12, 10:56 PM #9Immortal
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Crap, do I have to pay for what I've done again? Dammit, knew I should have gone into show business instead. Originally Posted by TradewindNQ
Just don't expect me to do it with the creepy, but kinda hot, cyborg lady.Sir Robin, the Not-Quite-So-Brave-As-Sir-Lancelot.
Who had nearly fought the Dragon of Angnor.
Who had almost stood up to the vicious Chicken of Bristol.
And who had personally wet himself, at the Battle of Badon Hill.
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2012-12-12, 10:56 PM #10Herald of the Titans
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Robbery gone bad. He hit up the McDs and demanded all their Big Macs. Then some poor fry cook try to be a hero. Threw hot oil in the guys face. That's when it all went sideways. Originally Posted by TradewindNQ
When survival is the goal, it's into the spider hole!
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2012-12-12, 10:58 PM #11Merely a Setback
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He became Two-Face (and Six-Chins)? Originally Posted by Beavis
'Twas a cutlass swipe or an ounce of lead
Or a yawing hole in a battered head
And the scuppers clogged with rotting red
And there they lay I damn me eyes
All lookouts clapped on Paradise
All souls bound just contrarywise, yo ho ho and a bottle of rum!
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2012-12-12, 10:59 PM #12I am Murloc!
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Have you seen the Mr. Monk episode about the 800 lb man who gets accused of murder?
Dale the Whale: http://monk.wikia.com/wiki/Mr._Monk_...Dale_the_Whale
He gets jailed.
MY X/Y POKEMON FRIEND CODE: 1418-7279-9541 In Game Name: Michael__
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2012-12-12, 10:59 PM #13The Unstoppable Force
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Heads you live *huff puff gasp* tails you die... Originally Posted by Reeve
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2012-12-12, 11:00 PM #14Immortal
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That was a good one. They don't make new Monk anymore do they? Originally Posted by Symphonic
Have you seen the Mr. Monk episode about the 800 lb man who gets accused of murder?
Dale the Whale: http://monk.wikia.com/wiki/Mr._Monk_...Dale_the_Whale
He gets jailed.Sir Robin, the Not-Quite-So-Brave-As-Sir-Lancelot.
Who had nearly fought the Dragon of Angnor.
Who had almost stood up to the vicious Chicken of Bristol.
And who had personally wet himself, at the Battle of Badon Hill.
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2012-12-12, 11:05 PM #15Banned
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Eric Holder in action
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2012-12-12, 11:06 PM #16The Unstoppable Force
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are you sure it's not his brother Richard? Originally Posted by chadwix
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2012-12-12, 11:14 PM #17Banned
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Nah its eric, the same one who refuses to convict black people and gave guns to the mexican cartels to show us "how bad gunz r". Originally Posted by TradewindNQ
http://fellowshipofminds.wordpress.c...re-his-people/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOABB...layer_embedded
"Atty General Eric Holder admits that Bill is not about punishing crimes motivated by hate, but rather about making crimes against 'certain groups' worth-more than comparable crimes against others..."
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2012-12-12, 11:19 PM #18Legendary!
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if it makes you feel better, there is a guy fighting lethal injection on the grounds his gross obesity makes it cruel and unusual punishment. Originally Posted by Beavis
OT: of course bankers cant go to jail for fucking over ordinary people, only if they embezzle from rich people
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2012-12-12, 11:19 PM #19The Unstoppable Force
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/whooooosh Originally Posted by chadwix
"You six-piece Chicken McNobody." Originally Posted by RICH816
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2012-12-12, 11:46 PM #20I am Murloc!
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Awesome job Eric Holder. Another spectacular appointee of Obama. First you hand over tons of guns to the cartels, and now you let their money launderers off with a slap on the wrist. Obama administration is pro-cartel apparently. Explains his bizarre stance on drug reform for a supposed liberal.
We only jail drug users and dealers, not the people that get rich from the illegal drug sales. Received that message loud and clear.I like sandwiches
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