WHAT is Horde? (spoiler)

[Dreknar20]

Sylvanas says that the people who once lived in the kingdom of lordaeron still live there in undeath. So the undead living in the plaguelands, hillabrad, etc are still the owners of that land, as they were once ruled part of lordaeron.

does "right" to a land really matter tho? Because ownership of land can change so easily, claims to land can change even more easily.

If you ask me the only thing that matters is whether you have the power to back up your claims

[Justignoreme]

Sylvanas says that the people who once lived in the kingdom of lordaeron still live there in undeath. So the undead living in the plaguelands, hillabrad, etc are still the owners of that land, as they were once ruled part of lordaeron.

yes, I'm aware of her bullcrap politics, but she likes to pretend that the living people, still living there, have no right to that land, and they do. Her solution was to murder them and raise them as undead, forcing the fulfillment of her statements, and is trying to use that crap in Arathi (and Gilneas) as well, case in point, the Forsaken trollbane. I suppose it's a moot point, since she's already murdered and raised everyone in Hillsbrad anyways.
A reckoning bomb will solve the problem of further aggression quite well; dust piles cant lay claim to anything that isn't theirs.

[Tojara]

Sylvanas and Garrosh will die this expansion.

Horde will become peaceful and unite with the Alliance.

Wrathion is playing both sides equally, preparing us and asking us difficult questions. We are likely to see a full front alliance between both factions moving forward (much like the end of the ORIGINAL WC3). In comes the expansion where the burning legion comes back and we as a united force stand together.

I don't know what that means for game play, but I assume the 2 factions are going to be far more friendly.

[Justignoreme]

If you ask me the only thing that matters is whether you have the power to back up your claims

Maybe in the real world, where power isn't created by writers with a favourable bias towards one side

[Icarris]

does "right" to a land really matter tho? Because ownership of land can change so easily, claims to land can change even more easily.

If you ask me the only thing that matters is whether you have the power to back up your claims

Well isn't that the key to the dispute between humans and undead. The humans say lordaeron is there's because it was a human kingdom.and the undead say its theirs because they were the occupants of that kingdom. And as far as the power to back it up, that's why they are fortifying.

[Valedus]

The 2nd. A commonwealth of the downtrodden. At least, those are the founding principles. The orcs, tauren, and trolls were all persecuted pretty heavily, later adding the undead and blood elves. While the undead are seemingly a bit more sinister than the other races, that's what I've always seen the backbone of the Horde as. "The enemy of my enemy is my ally."

[Deleted]

Sylvanas and Garrosh will die this expansion.

Horde will become peaceful and unite with the Alliance.

Wrathion is playing both sides equally, preparing us and asking us difficult questions. We are likely to see a full front alliance between both factions moving forward (much like the end of the ORIGINAL WC3). In comes the expansion where the burning legion comes back and we as a united force stand together.

I don't know what that means for game play, but I assume the 2 factions are going to be far more friendly.

I don't see how, seeing as Sylvanas has been confirmed by a blue as being "definitely involved" in ousting Garrosh which is the finale of MoP and we don't even know if he dies yet. Relations will tone down to a Vanilla style "cold war" politics. You don't fight what will be a what 4 or 5 year war? And instantly become friends again, they both refer to each other as "scum" and the death toll must be getting silly now. They'll realise that stopping bloodshed will be the best, but they'll hate each other forever, but that hate will be governed by more level headed individuals within The Horde atleast.

[Icarris]

Sylvanas and Garrosh will die this expansion.

Horde will become peaceful and unite with the Alliance.

Wrathion is playing both sides equally, preparing us and asking us difficult questions. We are likely to see a full front alliance between both factions moving forward (much like the end of the ORIGINAL WC3). In comes the expansion where the burning legion comes back and we as a united force stand together.

I don't know what that means for game play, but I assume the 2 factions are going to be far more friendly.

Ugh. How boring. Yay! World of peacecraft! Maybe we can stop sargeras by holding hands and showing him the power of love!

[Justignoreme]

The 2nd. A commonwealth of the downtrodden. At least, those are the founding principles. The orcs, tauren, and trolls were all persecuted pretty heavily

Orcs weren't persecuted. And since Centaurs and Naga/Murlocs aren't members of the Alliance, and were the ones "persecuting" the tauren and trolls, they can't associate their hardship with the Alliance. They inherited the animosity siding with the Orcs, just as the Night Elves inherited human troubles by joining the Alliance.

[Knighthonor]

I want Thrall do stay out of Horde. I rather not see him die now that he has a kid. but please stay out of Horde. let somebody else lead. I was liking Garrosh. But Blizzard screwed him.

[KWC3587]

I'm all for Sarufang myself. He represents the Horde better than Thrall or Garrosh as far as I'm concerned.

[delus]

I don't see how, seeing as Sylvanas has been confirmed by a blue as being "definitely involved" in ousting Garrosh which is the finale of MoP and we don't even know if he dies yet. Relations will tone down to a Vanilla style "cold war" politics. You don't fight what will be a what 4 or 5 year war? And instantly become friends again, they both refer to each other as "scum" and the death toll must be getting silly now. They'll realise that stopping bloodshed will be the best, but they'll hate each other forever, but that hate will be governed by more level headed individuals within The Horde atleast.

He also said that it wouldn't be in a way you'd expect. If she dies and serves as a martyr and a reason for the forsaken to want to kill garrosh that is playing a huge role in getting rid of garrosh.

[Dreknar20]

He also said that it wouldn't be in a way you'd expect. If she dies and serves as a martyr and a reason for the forsaken to want to kill garrosh that is playing a huge role in getting rid of garrosh.

who would be the new Forsaken leader then?
Not really a large list of candidates for that

[delus]

who would be the new Forsaken leader then?
Not really a large list of candidates for that

Couldn't be worse than them sticking a whiny emo kid like garrosh in charge out of the blue. If that's your best reason to not expect it, that's not good enough for me.

[Scummer]

A little light bulb just lit up in my head about the Forsaken story - Koltira and Thassarian.

---------- Post added 2012-12-14 at 10:05 AM ----------

Couldn't be worse than them sticking a whiny emo kid like garrosh in charge out of the blue. If that's your best reason to not expect it, that's not good enough for me.

Garrosh has enough back story and was developed during Wrath and subsequent books.
If there's gonna be a new Undead leader we will see it soon. Otherwise they will wind up with another Lor'themar and as we all know people weren't keen on him up until now.
The fact a logical replacement isn't in sight for the Forsaken is just another reason why I see her death as unlikely. Their development in Cata has really pushed them into the corner with what they can and can't do with them as a race at this point.

[Oneru]

What is horde?
baby don't hurt me,
don't hurt me,
no more.

Hahah I was thinking the same thing, +1 for you sir!

[khalltusk]

Hahah I was thinking the same thing, +1 for you sir!

IDD that song is now in my head.

I kinda hope either a) sylvannas is reigned in or dealt with in some fashion (thinking thrall bitch slap to put her back in her place) b) she finally comes to some sort of realization that if she continues on her path it will lead to her being taken down like Arthas/garrosh

[Deleted]

She would probably tell Varian to stop attacking her people and leave her lands alone. Remember, she was ordered by garrosh to attack gilneas.

Yet i think you forget that the original purpose of the Forsaken was to kill the Lich King and only that.

Sylvanas has grown full of herself - If you think Garrosh would actually have a chance to take down the Forsaken you are very wrong. If the Forsaken had gone up against Garrosh he would have had to fight war on too many fronts.

Hillsbrad and Gilneas might have been "horde property" in their eyes. Though the original inhabitants did at no point try to attack Forsaken towns.

Sylvanas acts weak even though she is one of the leaders with the most power at the moment.

[Scummer]

Sylvanas acts weak even though she is one of the leaders with the most power at the moment.

I'd say the Forsaken really aren't as strong as people big them up to be. They are not this unstoppable machine. Heck the bulk and vanguard of the Forsaken army was almost losing to the Gilnean survivors. If they had gone against a real army, I have no doubt we would see the Forsaken crumble and if you ask me the that's what Sylvanas needs - a real loss.

[Wildtree]

Since when is being raised from the dead into a state of damnation and knowing if you die again you will never find peace a good thing?

You aware the entire faction is just that?

Undead... Risen from the dead.... I believe that's how every Undead toon starts too.. But.......
Once put to rest, they won't come back. They have no children. They grow thin, and eventually extinguish.
That process effects the Horde force as a whole.
What is keeping the Alliance from re-taking the entire region after the Undead diminished?
That's part of Sylvanas motives, to keep the force in tact.
She has a problem with Garrosh, but who doesn't at that point? She was just the first one to have a problem with him.