It is official SWTOR is P2W

[Anjerith]

So it now reflects the likely outcome of a space battle scenario where one side is vastly overpowered by the side that can afford better technology?


...Weird.

[Kelimbror]

MoP really is the first time where everyone had to do them. Yes people keep trying to argue that they aren't required to progress, and technically you don't need the upgrades to raid.

This is not true. The original implementation of dailies was required for profession recipes that were required to get an advantage in raids at a time where there were more hardcore guilds than there ever have been.

Not to mention that originally you could only run a heroic once a day, so effectively a very long daily. It was required for rep for gear, attunements, etc. MoP is actually not even as mandatory to do 'dailies' as it was in TBC...it's just implemented with no choice in the matter which is why it is worse.

[Repefe]

You have to keep in mind, their issue isn't making a filter, their issue is making a filter that doesn't end up messing with legit accounts. There usually bot banning process is to compile a large list, try and fix those loopholes, and then do a mass ban. Even by doing that they usually have several legit accounts that get caught up in the process. Granted, I think they should take a more serious look at what individual players are sending them daily, but considering the number of bots and the number of people playing, it would take an army of GM's to deal with them on a daily basis. Its on of the massive downsides of being that large.

Half a year after release I get invites with messages that contain words like www, wow, gold, euro ... 10 identical messages are sitting in my log. What can be the eta on fixing filters for these sophisticated spammers who cover their tracks so cleverly I don't dare to guess

[Leonard McCoy]

This is not true. The original implementation of dailies was required for profession recipes that were required to get an advantage in raids at a time where there were more hardcore guilds than there ever have been.

Not to mention that originally you could only run a heroic once a day, so effectively a very long daily. It was required for rep for gear, attunements, etc. MoP is actually not even as mandatory to do 'dailies' as it was in TBC...it's just implemented with no choice in the matter which is why it is worse.

uhh tbc dailies had no gear behind them bro. The rep with gear was all from dungeons. TBC dailies were far less mandatory than Mop was by any stretch of the imagination. Charms, valor, recipes you name it. Shatari Ogrilla and IOQD. Shatari and ogrilla I could skip easily. IOQD I ignored and still got the reward from it. I don't want to get to far offtopic but they recently nerfed the least mandatory thing in the universe because it felt like a job. Blingtron. Their sense of what is and what isn't mandatory and what does and doesn't feel like a job is just a tad askew.

[freshtendrills]

The sheer stupidity of it all. One more f2p complaint. What's funny about mmo forum trolls, they obtain a vernacular of buzz words, and really don't know what they mean. When a game allows you to bypass all gameplay by buying end game gear...that's pay 2 win. People are so quick to scream the sky is falling, it's almost like.....you enjoy it...hmmmm. It's a mini game dude, get the F over it. Atleast they came out and stated there was an issue, and they're looking into fixing it. I don't think making a rash post on a forum about the game being p2w is appropriate . I think your just a Warcraft fan trolling, which at this point in the games life span is like seeing light sabers in Star Wars, it goes hand in hand.

[Kelimbror]

uhh tbc dailies had no gear behind them bro. The rep with gear was all from dungeons. TBC dailies were far less mandatory than Mop was by any stretch of the imagination. Charms, valor, recipes you name it. Shatari Ogrilla and IOQD. Shatari and ogrilla I could skip easily. IOQD I ignored and still got the reward from it. I don't want to get to far offtopic but they recently nerfed the least mandatory thing in the universe because it felt like a job. Blingtron. Their sense of what is and what isn't mandatory and what does and doesn't feel like a job is just a tad askew.

Let me reiterate that I effectively related heroic rep runs to 'dailies' thus why I put them in quotes, since you could only run them once a day. It was required for attunements which was literally mandatory to raid at all.

additionally, the OP alchemy stones came directly from recipes from SSO rep from the zone that was created just to do dailies in.

I could go on, but we've focused on the wrong game for too long here.

[Armourboy]

Half a year after release I get invites with messages that contain words like www, wow, gold, euro ... 10 identical messages are sitting in my log. What can be the eta on fixing filters for these sophisticated spammers who cover their tracks so cleverly I don't dare to guess

Well I haven't been keeping up with the D3 side of things, but considering I don't get them on WoW, I'm assuming thats a D3 development issue. Considering how bad that crew is I'm not really shocked.

And Kitty, I had totally forgotten about the Alchemy recipes, but you are really trying a definition to dailies that most people are not referring to. When I said that this is the first time they have really tied progression behind dailies, I strictly meant in the grab quest > complete > turn in direction. Obviously they have had things gated behind things in the past that took a while, but in most cases, they were things you were going to be doing any ways.

The original badge reward system, and ultimately what turned heroic runs into a daily grind, was a side effect of them adding a way for players to not get hosed by RNG so much. It just seems that over they years that the system has turned into the uncontrollable beast that is now used as a normal part of progression rather than a " RNG GODS WHY DO YOU HATE ME???!! " option.

The problem with MoP vs previous expansions, and even your definition of a daily, is that in the past you would have probably been doing some of those things anyways. With MoP, if they hadn't stuck all of the valor gear behind a rep grind, I never would have done any of it, because I dislike the quest daily approach ( which is why I never did Ogrilla, Skyguard, whatever the freaking drake rep was, ToC, Tol Barad or anything else unless I just got the itch to do it ). If I could of run an instance once a day and done it I would of been perfectly happy ( because I would of been doing it anyways)

P.S. I'm gonna stop responding after this, way too much WoW talk in the SWTOR forums. Sorry once again.

[notorious98]

Incorrect. Simply having the ship upgrades does not remove a large portion of difficulty. It's very clear you have not ran the new missions.

So, wait. If you DON'T have this gear, it doesn't make the missions MORE difficult? Interesting. I didn't realize that people were up in arms about a lateral gear treadmill.

[iceberg265]

People are seriously overreacting about the space gear in the market, however:

I just canceled my sub because of Damion Schubert's comment that the cartel market would become a viable way to get gear. I am hopeful that Joveth will come back to clarify his statement. If/when Bioware clarifies this statement to my satisfaction, I will happily resubscribe.

If space gear is as far as they are going to go, I will stay. If this is just "testing the waters" or a stepping stone to end game gear in the market, I am done with SWTOR and I will never purchase another game by Bioware or EA.

Can a mod change the name of this thread? There is nothing 'official' about it, yet.

[Repefe]

It used to be that BW offered content for ppl to buy

[Deleted]

omg you can buy upgrades for your starship.... I mean if that isnt a cosmetic irrelevant purchase I dont know what is, they sell power crystal usable at level 35, no one complains, the lucky dips contain 41 power crystals which can be used at level 10, by far the most OP thing on the cartel store - no one complains, but for some reason people are outraged by starship upgrades for a mini game that no one plays, I have lost faith in humanity

[Edge-]

omg you can buy upgrades for your starship.... I mean if that isnt a cosmetic irrelevant purchase I dont know what is, they sell power crystal usable at level 35, no one complains, the lucky dips contain 41 power crystals which can be used at level 10, by far the most OP thing on the cartel store - no one complains, but for some reason people are outraged by starship upgrades for a mini game that no one plays, I have lost faith in humanity

Because you replace those leveling crystals and they aren't useful at max level. The ship upgrades are the best upgrades for ships in the game. It's like selling entry level dungeon gear, and selling the highest tier of raid gear.

One is kinda sketchy but isn't a huge deal overall as you still have to put in effort to work towards the max rank of gear. The other just lets you flat out buy the best gear in the game.

[Kelimbror]

they sell power crystal usable at level 35, no one complains, the lucky dips contain 41 power crystals which can be used at level 10, by far the most OP thing on the cartel store - no one complains

Actually lots of people complained. Just to fact check you. No one was particularly happy about it, especially low bracket PvPers.

[Cooper]

If this is just "testing the waters" or a stepping stone to end game gear in the market, I am done with SWTOR and I will never purchase another game by Bioware or EA.

Of course it is BioWare testing the waters. I mean, do you really believe it went live this way because of "an internal miscommunication"? That nobody double checks this stuff?

I mean, it's possible nobody at BioWare bothers to double check their work, which would mean they're horrible at their jobs, but I really doubt they're that lackadaisical.

[7eventyOne]

Having those T7 ship upgrades for sale in the cash shop seem to me as a greedy move from EA/Bioware to milk those "happy few" that like to do the space mini game. It borders the P2W country, well maybe invades it. But is that all or this move might be something else?

I ve read various opinions upon this issue and read the official response. I ll try to examine them without being boring, hopefully.

Why some people think is P2W we already know and i will not say anything more about it.

But if it is not P2W then what is it?

Schubert claims it was a "disparity between costs due to internal miscommunication". Sounds like Trek technobabble.
Which means it was another lovely case where the patch wasnt checked properly and the error went live. In other words a typical Bioware patching. A mistake. They were expecting to release the new content patch (as they promised) in 9-10 weeks from now so they made a big cycle of acquisition for these upgrades to keep the people who play the mini-game distracted with something. They treated the mini game and the ship's gear treadmill like they would have treated gear acquired through operations. That is another reason why they designed those new space missions to be harder and named them heroic missions.

But if that was the case then why they didnt have the items in the cash shop on PTS during testing? Why they didnt announce this during the same testing? Why didnt they told us when they did the recent Q&A? Why they didnt take into consideration that they might screw a crew skill by having a couple of items this crew skill can make available in the shop? Some people were expecting this patch to make a few credits by making the expensive T7 items and post them to GTN only to find out they are undercut by some who bought them from the shop for the same reason. People that will buy those parts and have experience with the mini game will have a slight advantage on gearing since some rewards (not at all impressive, imho) give BH comms.

So they deliberately did all these to make a few bucks from the "happy few", Schubert mentions two "viable options as far as value goes" for getting items and does not clarify if he means the BiS ones, OR they really have a serious problem of department coordination in Austin. The content is well made, they put a serious effort making it but they are not in a position to handle their product properly even more monetize it or communicate it with out creating a fuss. They knew from the start that they have to deal with a frustrated and disoriented community, the itchy, tough and unforgiving mmo crowd is negative towards TOR even if this crowd does not fully understand why they are negative. EA, Bioware, SWTOR hasnt got the luxury to afford another controversy, havent they realized that already? But what can one expect from people that want to make money selling UI elements?

P2W or not the whole T7 is another chapter in the SWTOR drama mainly affecting their playerbase by creating more negativity and overshadowing the good content this new patch brought. And it is not only that, the new patch brought the Life Day items issue too, another triggering event for people to bash. The bussiness model Bioware applied does not work as intended. It is clear to me that the SWTOR decision makers do not do their job well. They have to change direction. And do this as fast as they can.

[Cooper]

There are times for comparisons to Nazi Germany, but outside of this not being one of them, that was quite possibly the dumbest comparison I have ever read.

Not to mention it just flat out being historically inaccurate - British and French guarantees to Poland, following Germany's annexation of Czechoslovakia, are why they declared war on Germany to officially begin the second World War.

[hulkgor]

I find it amusing that people are crying "Pay 2 Win" in regards of a minor, mini-game, with no 'winning' what so ever. Win what? Against who? It's a mini, side game... If there were leaderboards, rewards or some sort of rare title\gear set\wtv, it would make sense. As it is, it makes absolutely no sense to complain about it being "Pay to win"...

That's like complaining that any single player video game that can be more easily beat\completed with the use of a joystick (flight games) or a wheel (any driving game) are "PAY TO WIN", PFFFF. Might be a far fetched comparison, but that's the way i see it lol.

Pay to Win means gaining advantage over OTHER PLAYERS through the use of real currency. Ex: Purchasing top items from the Diablo 3 Real Money AH when PVP eventually comes live. Or imagine if you could purchase Best in Slot gear for your class in World of Warcraft through the Battle Net store or purchasing a +1000 permanent stat buff for your character for 5$, again in WoW... you would be gaining advantage over other players by purchasing 'power' with real money.

[gamz247]

Then it's potentially bugged...that's posted from dulfy's write up of the space missions and it hasn't been changed since written. It wouldn't surprise me.

Checked out the flight missions a little while ago. Had Operation Cha Raaba Assault and Operation Foe-Smasher (Cha Raaba and Duma Strike) waiting for me. Dunno what the deal is with these.

[Repefe]

I find it amusing that people are crying "Pay 2 Win" in regards of a minor, mini-game, with no 'winning' what so ever. Win what? Against who? It's a mini, side game... If there were leaderboards, rewards or some sort of rare title\gear set\wtv, it would make sense. As it is, it makes absolutely no sense to complain about it being "Pay to win"...

That's like complaining that any single player video game that can be more easily beat\completed with the use of a joystick (flight games) or a wheel (any driving game) are "PAY TO WIN", PFFFF. Might be a far fetched comparison, but that's the way i see it lol.

Pay to Win means gaining advantage over OTHER PLAYERS through the use of real currency. Ex: Purchasing top items from the Diablo 3 Real Money AH when PVP eventually comes live. Or imagine if you could purchase Best in Slot gear for your class in World of Warcraft through the Battle Net store or purchasing a +1000 permanent stat buff for your character for 5$, again in WoW... you would be gaining advantage over other players by purchasing 'power' with real money.

I would say that some ppl don't cherish the idea that they will either spend 20-40-50 hours in game grinding something or they will skip one launch and with that launch money buy stuff that would take them all those hours to grind. At that point wasting time in a game becomes a bit too stupid. Because even if you do all the grind you end up with something that you could have got for no effort at all. You was just too stupid/stubborn not to get it easy.

[Semihage]

There is no space pvp.. The closest resemblance that getting space gear through CP is P2W is that heroic space mission gives black hole commendations. And black hole commendation gives great pve gear. So by using CP to buy space ship equipment, you have better chance to complete heroic space mission compared to people that have to slowly grind all the Fleet commendation to get equivalent space gear. (All space gears are purchasable through credits/fleet commendation)

So P2W in pvp? Not really.. But maybe a small edge in pve.. Although if you are really that hardcore in pve progression, black hole commendation is pretty much useless for you anyway since your gear should already be ahead of the curve.