Dalaran is on the move !

[Trassk]

They HAD TO. Varian just really woke up when he saw his reflection on Jaina.That's when he asked himself if that was the way others saw him.

But one thing that most people are ignoring is the BAD BAD influence that racist psychopath bitch that is Vereesa is pushing into her. No Windrunner sister is an example of leveled thinking. And having that crazy fascist as her right hand is as bad as Malkorok whispering shit in Garrosh's ears.

Yes, your right there. I've disliked Vereesa ever since wrath, stuck up bitch that she is (I mean she Married Rhonin.. COME ON..), you could pin it on her being the driving influence towards pushing Jaina to attack all the sunreavers, kind of like Jaina's own wormtounge whispering in her ear. But I still hold Jaina accountable for the attack on innocent blood elves who had nothing to do with the betrayal.

[MasterOutlaw]

Dalaran is loose!
Feel the magic,
Hear the roar,
Dalaran is loose!
Dala, Dala, Dala, Dalaran!

Dalaran!

I read the title and immediately checked to see if someone did this. Thank you.

[checking facts]

So tell me would you keep calm if your whole city was eradicated to a point where not even the bodies of the dead are remaining? Nah of course you would not Trassk.

but as I said before: someone who cannot control her feelings enough to make reasonable political decisions is not fit to be a leader.

she is pissed, and she has the right to be so. but if she's gonna walk around in anger turning dalaran into a dictatorship (Jaina yells: the kirin tor will not tolerate insubordination!), than she should not be the one in charge.

she is all "I am the kirin tor" now. well, garrosh usually says "I am the horde". how different are they, right now?

[Trassk]

but as I said before: someone who cannot control her feelings enough to make reasonable political decisions is not fit to be a leader.

she is pissed, and she has the right to be so. but if she's gonna walk around in anger turning dalaran into a dictatorship (Jaina yells: the kirin tor will not tolerate insubordination!), than she should not be the one in charge.

she is all "I am the kirin tor" now. well, garrosh usually says "I am the horde". how different are they, right now?

exactly. Seems to be the only reason they screwed up all Jaina represented was to satisfy the whiners about how they felt the horde was beating them in cata, so they corrupted one of there own to be the alliances Garrosh. Thing is, Garrosh is as far divided on what the horde is meant to represent now, that the horde is set to strike him down at the end of mists.
So, with Garrosh out the way, and Jaina's new attitude, her dictatorship will make the alliance look worse because of it come end of mists.

[Deleted]

they should put a laser underneath, fly it over all the horde cities and fire!

To be honest they do not need it. Jaina do not want to kill all the horde. Just the evil ones. My souce? she has the FREAKING focusing iris, in tides of war she was about to completly destory ogrimmar with a gigantik wave. So if she wanted to, she could do that, if the goal was removeing ogrimmar from the face of the earth.
And this time she even have more strong mages with her, ands till the focus iris, if she wanted to, Dalran could just summon milions of water elements and attack the city (tides of war, she summoned thousens of water elements and bounded them togetter to make one big who could wash over orgrimmar)

but ofc would be MUCH cooler with a laser but ofc they would not do that, for why fly over ogrimma, when they can destory it from afar

---------- Post added 2012-12-17 at 03:26 PM ----------

exactly. Seems to be the only reason they screwed up all Jaina represented was to satisfy the whiners about how they felt the horde was beating them in cata, so they corrupted one of there own to be the alliances Garrosh. Thing is, Garrosh is as far divided on what the horde is meant to represent now, that the horde is set to strike him down at the end of mists.
So, with Garrosh out the way, and Jaina's new attitude, her dictatorship will make the alliance look worse because of it come end of mists.

But lets be honest The horde still have that one lovely lady ooooh shes a lady!(sylvanish) who is still useing the plague, and resurtingt people but it does raise a question what will jaina do, will she go back to be calmer or if she still will hate the horde, even after getting her revense

[Alwek]

Why do people seem to be disturbed by Jaina's actions? Sylvanas is doing worse things and nobody questions her..

[Stormdash]

Why do people seem to be disturbed by Jaina's actions? Sylvanas is doing worse things and nobody questions her..

Same answer I give when people complain about double standards like that in real life, like in politics -- people get more upset with the people they expect more out of. People expect Sylvanas to do horrible things; they expect Jaina to have forest creatures braid her hair.

[Oswen]

1 - Why is it better having dalaran being owned purely by the alliance? If dalaran is meant to be the hub of all magical knowledge on azeroth, and it now is meant to represent the seekers of magic now the blue dragonflight has disbanded, how does it help them in closing its doors (with violence) to half the population of azeroth. Suppose in the future after garrosh is gone and the horde is ruled by a good leader, that the blood elves discover something of extreme magical importance. Now dalaran is screwed because instead of being approached with neutrality, they would have to go to war against silvermoon. All Jaina and dalaran has assured is the kiron tor will now always be under threat from the horde.

2 - Like it or not? Thats subjective opinion and you know it. Jaina is set to cause more rifts while she goes on a war against the horde. Varian himself is mellowing, and as high king he will stand as someone trying to act with reason and even compassion. This isn't a better Jaina, its just one they made to try and appeal to the forum kids complaining about her being soft or not war like enough. She had a stronger resolve in trying for peace then she ever will in trying to war with a faction she can never win against.

3 - Thats a contradiction. Jaina has just made dalaran into an alliance only institution, in her closing the kirin tor to the horde is closes access to vast says of knowledge, and assures bloodshed for the kirin tor if they try to take attack any of the horde settlements. The kirin tor isn't that strong that it can win against anything, they couldn't even defend against the blue flight without help.

Also, you just got dalaran for the alliance, why should you be given stromgarde? All this assures is alliance will never have lordearon. Alliance being given back everything they think belongs to them will leave the game unbalanced.

I understand these threads tend to often turn into faction flame wars however i think you may have misunderstood my post.

I think Jaina is overall better now not because she is all " RAGE AND BLOOD" but because she is finally doing something that's evident and important in the story.
Her biggest fault (and this applies to many important characters aswell) wasn't being all peaceful and happy but was being costantly parked in Theramore without really doing anything, things were happening around her (just think the Southern Barrens war) without us knowing anything about how she felt about it, in every story characters should *always* do something, doesn't matter what, just to make us feel they're "there".

As for Dalaran it just never made much sense being neutral actually, Forsaken and Horde are butchering them since Vanilla (and kept doing that even after the event of WoLK) and i guess even Blizzard realized that, at its heart, it has always been an Alliance city and just needed a good reason to restore that status (and kill off characters they didn't like much like Rhonin, Me'Dan you're next in line).

What i'm really liking in the story of MoP is that almost everything and everyone is getting some spotlight, even Velen is being called out soon!
I don't really care what it ends up happening because it's just a story in a game universe, what i really like is that it's finally feeling as a true story with "alive" characters, regardless of what will happen.
I'd really like to see Galliwyx, the Three Hammers and Mekkatorque involved aswell since they are the only ones left silent (we may toss Genn in here aswell but at least he partecipated in that Alliance meeting to discuss the Sha).

As for my Kul'Tiras, Stormgarde etc i never asked them to being given to anyone in my post, i'd just love to see them again in the lore, i don't really care if Kul'tiras has become Nagaville or is Danath will die trying to get his city back, i just want a good and interesting story.

As for Lordaeron i didn't even mention it even though i admit i'd love to see the story progress further, i'd love something like Calia showing again as either the new Forsaken Queen, or, if i would want to add some more strife and conflict in the story, have her marry Varian, *that* would make an interesting story, regardless of what it may happen after.

[Deleted]

As for Dalaran it just never made much sense being neutral actually, Forsaken and Horde are butchering them since Vanilla (and kept doing that even after the event of WoLK) and i guess even Blizzard realized that, at its heart, it has always been an Alliance city and just needed a good reason to restore that status

Back in vanilla the Dalaran mages were attacking the forsaken, there were a few quests one involving killing Dalaran mages at a secret base and stealing their plans to attack the Sepulcher.

it pretty much has been going on since then in Cata as well, so really outside of Northrend there is no evidence of Dalaran's neutrality.

My own view is that they always were Alliance leaning by being so openly hostile to the Forsaken and Blood Elves and that their neutrality in Wrath was just out of convenience so they could use us to fight Malygos and Arthas.

Rhonin being present with Dalaran mages to shore up Theramore's defences when it was bombed pretty much gives me the impression that he was supplying covert aid to the Alliance despite being neutral.

As for Lordaeron i didn't even mention it even though i admit i'd love to see the story progress further, i'd love something like Calia showing again as either the new Forsaken Queen, or, if i would want to add some more strife and conflict in the story, have her marry Varian, *that* would make an interesting story, regardless of what it may happen after.

Got to admit I do like the idea of Varian being married to the heiress of Lorderon giving him claim to their lands, that would be very interesting. As it stands right now with Theramore gone Alliance have just lost their major claim on the region with the deaths of the last survivors of Lorderon.

[GhostSkull]

If they crash Dalaran into Silvermoon there will be an excuse to redesign it and maybe folks can be convinced to go there. It would explain why they haven't bothered to add flying to that zone. No point in reworking it when they already had plans to do so. While I'm dreaming, they should take it to Pandaria. Then we'd finally have auction houses. Or plug that big hole in the world to the north of booty bay. Or in the ocean between Kalimdor and Booty Bay, providing a land bridge between the two continents.

Or it gets sucked into the Maelstrom and provides ports to the next expansion.

[Ninotchka]

I had always wanted them to use Dalaran as a missile. I think it would be an awesome cinematic. I had this dream that that was how they planned to break open Icecrown Citadel. The city was so close, just a little closer and.... SMASH!

[Trillien]

I'd be fine with any excuse to bring Dalaran back into the fray. It's gotta be my favorite city of them all.

[Kelimbror]

I had always wanted them to use Dalaran as a missile. I think it would be an awesome cinematic. I had this dream that that was how they planned to break open Icecrown Citadel. The city was so close, just a little closer and.... SMASH!

Dalaran is not an alien ship from Independence Day, lol. We don't need goblin sappers flying into it's weak spot and eradicating it with a stick of dynamite.

I don't get why people are so shocked that someone who survived a holocaust and witnessed so much death would be a little psycho afterwards. I read people complaining about the bipolar nature of her personality and act like she's an angry mary sue being used to counter balance Garrosh.

Uhh..hello...this is probably what would happen in real life. A good person witnesses something horrific that affects their life and they start to unravel. I wouldn't be surprised if they wind up having Varian level her out in the end, where she goes back to struggling for peace but is no longer forcefully naieve. She will be a very jaded and bitter person, regardless of her anger subsiding.

What would be reeeeallly amazing...is if somehow in utter despair she reflects on her loss of Arthas and travels to Northrend to replace Bolvar through some crazy mage mojo and we wind up having a LICH QUEEN. It would be the only fall for her that would be appropriate and provide circular closure for her story.

[checking facts]

I don't get why people are so shocked that someone who survived a holocaust and witnessed so much death would be a little psycho afterwards. I read people complaining about the bipolar nature of her personality and act like she's an angry mary sue being used to counter balance Garrosh.

I'm not surprised that jaina is psycho. I'm surprised they let a psycho lady lead the kirin tor because krasus got high and tried his hand at poetry in the middle of cataclysm.

[Deleted]

You got that from where? I'd like to see some kind of source for it. The one's im refering to are actual named Val'kyrs, three of them died to ressurect Sylvanas and a few other named Val'kyrs died aswell.

http://www.wowpedia.org/Lesser_Val'kyr

You can see them during the battle of Andorhal, flying and raising human corpses.

What I'm refering to is the inevitable decay, it does happen but it takes quite some time. Many of the forsaken will eventually devolve into mindless shambling husks.

As far as I know, Forsaken don't need any specific vital organ to stay "alive". Brains and hearts aren't necessary for them to function, so basically, as long as they can replace a few members by using corpses (those who don't want to join the forsaken, for example ?), they're pretty much fine for eternity.

What would be reeeeallly amazing...is if somehow in utter despair she reflects on her loss of Arthas and travels to Northrend to replace Bolvar through some crazy mage mojo and we wind up having a LICH QUEEN. It would be the only fall for her that would be appropriate and provide circular closure for her story.

Yeah and then Deathwing comes back to life and makes babies with Azshara, and the whole universe goes boom when they realize that Rexxar is actually Thrall's long lost son.

IT TOTALLY MAKES SENSE NOW.

I'm not surprised that jaina is psycho. I'm surprised they let a psycho lady lead the kirin tor because krasus got high and tried his hand at poetry in the middle of cataclysm.

Pretty much. Being cool headed is one of the responsibilities that comes with leadership. All the guys that once were at the top of some order and went nuts at some point died, or at least ended up badly.

[Greyvax]

They stated that Sylvanas would have a role in patch 5.2, therefore Dalaran landing back in alterac mountains makes sense since it is close to Undercity.

[KrazyK923]

You think this is perfectly acceptable because of what happened in theramore, but as someone keeping stronger tabs on the story, this feels like nothing more then a jump back and forth in what she does, she's become a mess.

I am sorry, but this nonsense comment is just full of crap. Based on your posts I can guarantee that I follow the lore more closely than you, and Jaina's progression as a character is totally reasonable.

Stop with the pretentious bullshit. Your hard on for the Horde is so blatant that its absolutely ridiculous. God forbid the Alliance get something for once, and you immediately start crying all over forums and incorrectly calling the lore changes inconsistent because you dislike them.

You don't like the change in the lore. Get over it. That doesn't equal the change being unrealistic or inconsistent.

But I still hold Jaina accountable for the attack on innocent blood elves who had nothing to do with the betrayal.

Right, the ones who refused to leave despite given the chance.

he problem I have is how from her standing in the novel, to how she is currently, she is literally bounching up and down, up and down from one belief to the next, and it makes her so unpredictable it puts her in the worse kind of position,

Really? She's bouncing up and down from how she was in the novel? The Kirin Tor make her the leader knowing full well that she still hates Garrosh. As someone who read the book I hope you realized that. If that connotation wasn't obvious than perhaps Dave Kosak outright agreeing with this sentiment might work?

The more you keep trying to throw your weight around as a supposed lore expert in people's faces, the more foolish and simply a pro-Horde biased person you appear. Which, I believe, is what you actually are.

[Florena]

I don't see Jaina as being all that inconsistent.

Her progression in Tides of War made perfect sense to me. And there's even the possibility the mana bomb exposure was partially responsible for her going crazy for a bit. Then at the end she's made leader of the Kirin Tor.

After that, she decides to try and keep Dalaran's neutrality. She hates Garrosh, and understandably so, but she's still able to see that he doesn't represent everyone in the Horde. Still, she has to wrestle with her anger every day. One doesn't just 'get over' what happened to her in Theramore.

Jaina's story in Tides of War wasn't solely about dealing with her anger either. It was also about her finding her place int he world. She felt increasing despair and frustration about her role as a peace keeper, and eventually Theramore itself was attackd. Most of her followers, save for the civilians sent away by ship, were slaughtered in a matter of seconds. Her city and nation was gone. Then at the end, she tried to joint he Kirin Tor as a novice member, and they made her the leader. She now had a place once a gain, a role to fulfill. And she was willing to work with the Sunreavers, accepting that Theron was a lone rogue agent.

Then the Sunreavers betray that trust. Not all of them, sure. But the Sunreavers betray her trust, betray the will of the Kirin Tor, and use her city to put a magical potential WMD in the hands of the same orc who used a mana bomb to destroy her city. Was her response moral or right? Maybe not. Maybe she overreacted. Maybe she was in the wrong expelling the Sunreavers. I think she WAS wrong for sure in having Vereesa play such a role in it given her vendetta against them. But I understand why Jaina made the choice. Her character isn't flip flopping back and forth randomly I see it as a logical progression of events.

[iamthedevil]

There are some people here, wink, that claim a character is inconsistent whenever they do not like the writing or changes for said character. Is the character inconsistent? It doesn't matter, because only what they think matters.

[KrazyK923]

Then the Sunreavers betray that trust. Not all of them, sure. But the Sunreavers betray her trust, betray the will of the Kirin Tor, and use her city to put a magical potential WMD in the hands of the same orc who used a mana bomb to destroy her city.

Not to mention, God forbid the leader of said faction take some responsibility for a second breach of security that was identical to the first time. Especially after he explicitly tells Jaina that he'll take responsibility for Thalen Songweaver.

I am also willing to bet people who try to argue Aethas Sunreaver isn't responsible for the actions of the Sunreavers are also mostly the same people who now (or will) talk about how all the actions under the Horde should fall onto Garrosh's shoulders because he is the Warchief.

You can't have it both ways.

Either the Horde as a whole now is much more evil than before, and therefore Aethas gets a break or Garrosh is responsible for the evils he allows committed under command and in his name and Aethas is guilty for not knowing what happens under his command.

Of course, the latter is the obvious answer, but not for the partisans. Its the former for Aethas and the latter for Garrosh for them somehow. THERE'S your inconsistency.