Dalaran is on the move !

[Myzou]

There's already a member of the Bronze Dragonflight positioned at the end of the bridge into Theramore to allow you visit the city in the past and complete lower level questing. New Dalaran won't replace Old Theramore even though Theramore crater seems to be the most likely place it would rest if not Kul Tiras. Speaking of Kul Tiras...

I'm well aware of her. HOWEVER, she existed back when the blog post about the base camp on Theramore's Crater came up.

Theramore's destruction is not permanent for everyone yet. This is why that bronze dragonflight member is there. When it's permanent for everyone, she will disappear, and a "base camp" will appear.

This "base camp," I believe, is Dalaran.

[Trassk]

I like how because you dislike what they did with the character it means she's inconsistent.

If anything they kept it logical to her reaction to the lore they've made.

You can dislike the lore that they made to make her change, but her reaction is not inconsistent.



A lot of this is just wrong. Or blatantly generalized to the point that the true purpose has lost its meaning (Basically all the points about Jaina and half of the Garrosh ones) to shoehorn them into your PoV.

I've heard you spout your crap about "ZOMG JAINA IS NOT A CONSISTENT CHARACTER ANYMORE THEY RUINED HER WAAHHHH!" more than a few times now. And I always laugh because you never really qualify what, in your mind, would NOT make her an inconsistent character. I've brought this up on other threads where you've made this point before, but I'll do it again:

Are we to assume that you would think Jaina would have consistency if Garrosh and the Horde destroyed virtually everything good she has left in her life and continue to throw the flowers of peace? Because I'm fairly certain that is the exact opposite of "consistent."

Based on what I've seen of your postings a while back through now, I am fairly sure you just bash the lore now to bash it.

Think what you like, doesn't change the fact Jaina character now yoyo's between one concept to the next, making her an inconsistent mess. Perhaps you don't know what the term means or how to compare it?

[Netherspark]

Think what you like, doesn't change the fact Jaina character now yoyo's between one concept to the next, making her an inconsistent mess. Perhaps you don't know what the term means or how to compare it?

Perhaps you don't know what realism is? You stand around calling anything that isn't a one-dimensional character, only capable of a single emotion or set of ideals "inconsistent" when it's perfectly human.

[LilSaihah]

Think what you like, doesn't change the fact Jaina character now yoyo's between one concept to the next, making her an inconsistent mess. Perhaps you don't know what the term means or how to compare it?

I don't know if I'd call it yoyoing. She's just bounced from being an ineffectual hippy to queen of the bitches. For her to yoyo would imply that she is returning to her original position of ineffectual hippy.

[TheEaterofSouls]

please tell me that the one in NR will stay where it is... Could you imagine how inconvenient it would be for horde players to get around and how they would have to rework horde mages by giving them a replacement for Dalaran portals.

(Will it be like old South Shore or a phase like theramoore?)

[Wilian]

Think what you like, doesn't change the fact Jaina character now yoyo's between one concept to the next, making her an inconsistent mess. Perhaps you don't know what the term means or how to compare it?

This coming from a person who idolizes nowdays the single most one-dimensional character like Thrall which is practically one man's wish-fullfillment and admitted to be so.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

This coming from a person who idolizes nowdays the single most one-dimensional character like Thrall which is practically one man's wish-fullfillment and admitted to be so.

Thrall isn't a one dimensional character. He's idealistic sure but he isn't perfect, not by a long shot.

[Wilian]

Thrall isn't a one dimensional character. He's idealistic sure but he isn't perfect, not by a long shot.

I admittably mis-worded it. One dimensional was not the right word to use.

[Scummer]

Thrall isn't a one dimensional character. He's idealistic sure but he isn't perfect, not by a long shot.

Don't get me wrong I like Thrall even now, but as a character he hasn't really got any noticeable flaws compared to other characters his only real flaws are that he's too trusting or nice which let's be honest is a pretty poor flaw if it's one at all.
"His" main flaws come from his journey to better the Horde which is less a problem with him, and more with the Horde and everybody else.

[Deleted]

Think what you like, doesn't change the fact Jaina character now yoyo's between one concept to the next, making her an inconsistent mess. Perhaps you don't know what the term means or how to compare it?

You are looking it wrong. WoW is moving from a characters-based story to an event-based story, and IMHO, rightfully so.

It's no longer about powerful characters and how they affect the world, no, now everyone is a powerful character by itself. It's about these world changing events and how those characters react with realism to them. Just much like how real world.

Jaina is not yoyoing, she was given a second chance with Dalaran and three months later, it was taken back from her by Garrosh and his goons. She is reacting according to her past character development. Again, the events decides the characters now, not the opposite.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

You are looking it wrong. WoW is moving from a characters-based story to an event-based story, and IMHO, rightfully so.

It's no longer about powerful characters and how they affect the world, no, now everyone is a powerful character by itself. It's about these world changing events and how those characters react with realism to them. Just much like how real world.

Jaina is not yoyoing, she was given a second chance with Dalaran and three months later, it was taken back from her by Garrosh and his goons. She is reacting according to her past character development. Again, the events decides the characters now, not the opposite.

Except the characters are also part of the story which is where you are flawed. Stories are always about characters and everything else involved in it.

[Deleted]

Except the characters are also part of the story which is where you are flawed. Stories are always about characters and everything else involved in it.

But it's no longer character-driven, it's event-driven. That's what I meant.

[Lovecrafts]

Dalaran is loose!
Feel the magic,
Hear the roar,
Dalaran is loose!
Dala, Dala, Dala, Dalaran!

Dalaran!

I am very glad I am not the only one who randomly got the Thundercats theme song playing in his head after reading the title of the thread

[TheDangerZone]

Think what you like, doesn't change the fact Jaina character now yoyo's between one concept to the next, making her an inconsistent mess. Perhaps you don't know what the term means or how to compare it?

I agree that Jaina's actions can be described as contradictory, but not as inconsistent. Her contradictions are result of her reactions to world-changing events; a by product of her handling the situations and processing her emotions. What I mean is that is understandable even if is not the most simple progression, and her erratic behavior comes from the fact she hasn't been able to truly process Theramore yet.

Rationally she wanted to give the SUnreavers a second chance, because it was the right thing to do; but after another betrayal, her shit just flipped. No more second chances. I think that Jaina should have waited some before carrying out the purge, but I don't think she should have not carried it anyway. The second Sunreaver betrayal only showed that Aethas's negligence was too dangerous, and no one can lead a people divided or with betrayers on their midst.

Jaina should have taken a breath and expel the Sunreavers more peacefully, but it is understandable form a character standpoint that she acted so rashly. It was faulty, but completely in character given the progression and damage cause by the Theramore massacre on her psyche.

[Deleted]

I could see Dalaran being moved to sit itself over the crater of Theramore, if only to safeguard that place considering how volatile and dangerous it has become after the detonation of the bomb.

edit:
Also, in regards to Jaina and her actions, I can only imagine just how emotionally taxing these events must have been for her, she lost many of her closest friends in Theramore.

If someone killed most of my closest friends, I most likely wouldnt want to give them, nor any group they might be affiliated with a chance, especially not when said group has a reputation of a shady nature (sunreavers with horde connections, etc.)

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I agree that Jaina's actions can be described as contradictory, but not as inconsistent. Her contradictions are result of her reactions to world-changing events; a by product of her handling the situations and processing her emotions. What I mean is that is understandable even if is not the most simple progression, and her erratic behavior comes from the fact she hasn't been able to truly process Theramore yet.

Rationally she wanted to give the SUnreavers a second chance, because it was the right thing to do; but after another betrayal, her shit just flipped. No more second chances. I think that Jaina should have waited some before carrying out the purge, but I don't think she should have not carried it anyway. The second Sunreaver betrayal only showed that Aethas's negligence was too dangerous, and no one can lead a people divided or with betrayers on their midst.

Jaina should have taken a breath and expel the Sunreavers more peacefully, but it is understandable form a character standpoint that she acted so rashly. It was faulty, but completely in character given the progression and damage cause by the Theramore massacre on her psyche.

Understandable by any means sure. Inconsistent? Maybe the Neutrality crap possibly but what she did? No it's probably reasonable to see why she did what she did. Was it wrong and questionable? Yes but I understand WHY she did it.

But it's no longer character-driven, it's event-driven. That's what I meant.

It should be both. Can't have events without characters and vice versa.

[Talen]

Think what you like, doesn't change the fact Jaina character now yoyo's between one concept to the next, making her an inconsistent mess. Perhaps you don't know what the term means or how to compare it?

Well...lets take a look at yout complaints:

Jaina "Well I have theramore and I love peace and want to be friends with the horde but I'm not against letting my king use theramore as a run though so he can attack the barrens"

>>>Jaina is ruler of an independnt nation and is free to form her own policies. She is also very interested and engaged in promoting peace between the Alliance and Horde. HOWEVER - she is still a full fledged member of the Alliance and as such obligated to provide aid and assistance to other members, especially in times of conflict, disaster and war. Given Garroshes unprovoked assault against the night Elfs, and the damage they took during the Cataclysm it is NOT inconsistent that she would be called upon to support her allies and provide relief and assistance. Nor does it mean she need give up her dovish ways, even in times of conflict.

Jaina "I believed magic should be respected, but I'm not against using it to subject water elementals to destroy the city of those I use to try and make peace with"

>>>Her city had been destroyed, her land overrun and her people subjected to either homelessness or an agonising, cruel death. Her actions against her father had proven to be folly and her allowing his death ended up being for nothing. He was proven correct in his view on the Orcs. Jaina turning her magic against Garrosh and Orgrimmar isn't inconsistent. It IS out of character for he rnormal self - but given the extreme situation, that is actually understandable as that wasn't a normal situation. The Horde killed her people, her friends and ravaged her lands. Her attempts at peace had backfired. Her fathers death proven a worthless sacrifice. You expect consistency at a time of anger and shock?

She didn't need to have acted that way, but her desire to lash out is understandable and perfectly in keeping with human nature. As is the fact she actually tried to follow through and allowed herself to be talked out of it.

Jaina "I believe dalaran can be used for peace, but I'm not against kicking out or killing anyone with a horde tattoo because they must all be found guilty"

>>>>She gave the Sunreavers a chance. They betrayed Dalaran a second time. She asked them to leave. They refused. She arrested and imprisoned them. They fought back.

I'm failing to see the inconsistency.

EJL

[Deleted]

It should be both. Can't have events without characters and vice versa.

And it is. Sometimes characters push the events, sometimes is the opposite. Right now WoW is event-driven, by Garrosh's War.

Anyway, Jaina's reaction is a natural reaction. If there is any "inconsistency" is the fact that the Sunreavers weren't fully investigated as soon Jaina control of the Kirin Tor. One of its members was responsible for the destruction of Theramore. Members of the Kirin Tor and their leader also died on the bombing, being Alliance or not.

[KrazyK923]

Think what you like, doesn't change the fact Jaina character now yoyo's between one concept to the next, making her an inconsistent mess. Perhaps you don't know what the term means or how to compare it?

She "yoyo'ed" really?

You mean, how her character was exactly the same for the 7 years of WoW and the however many years Warcraft 3 was in existence. So someone literally destroys what is left of Jaina's world and she changes her opinion.

YOYO!

Perhaps YOU don't understand what "inconsistent" means.

If there is any "inconsistency" is the fact that the Sunreavers weren't fully investigated as soon Jaina control of the Kirin Tor. One of its members was responsible for the destruction of Theramore. Members of the Kirin Tor and their leader also died on the bombing, being Alliance or not.

This is exactly correct. The only inconsistent thing is that we did not see Jaina investigating the Sunreavers or Aethas (Who, if you read the book, tells Jaina he'll take full responsibility for what happened) to see how the hell Garrosh managed to do that.

The only reason I can come up with that Blizzard did not do that? Even though they wanted the Alliance to control Dalaran, they wanted the people who don't look deep into the actual lore or are biased (Like Thrassk in this case) to be like "Oh well of course Jaina overreacted."

[Lochton]

Dalaran + Stromgarde and Danath fight the Forsaken in Arathi.
Would be awesome.

OMG *fan boi scream* Now, that would make an epic opponant towards the Forsaken, to have a few human kingdoms rebuild/return to Eastern Kingdoms