Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[Deleted]

I agree with a previous poster.

You are very naive, and have live a sheltered life.

Yes, name calling when you cant handle your self with words.. Lol, have anything to actually bring to the table??

You need to visit other countries, get outside of the cities, spend time alone in the woods and deserts.
Travel across America and Europe on a limited budget. Stay at European hostels and American rest stops.
Visit a third world country, and travel to the non-tourist areas

.

I have, and they where all safe. Never felt the need for a gun, not even once.

We don't live in a made up world.

Yet you seem hellbent on seeing danger everywhere in your made up world.

Not for a very long time???
How old are you?

My age is irrelevant, but lets say its old enough to realize that peace here has been a thing for over 70 years now. That is a very long time to live in peace and there isn't a cloud on the horizon here. Things have changed a lot in 70 years up to a point were Europe isn't at war with each other at all and is at its hight of working together. Everyone has realized that you can win a country with war anymore, the rest of the world would not allow it. The world is ever changing towards more inclusion with each other, not less. An all out war doenst do anyone any favors as no one wants to rule a pile of rubble. The only ones who want that are religious nutjobs, and that is a good reason to keep them from making the rules.

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Just like the UN charter, EU charter, all country laws, human rights conventions, etc. So by your argument, the world should be entirely the strong ruling the weak. Since all of these laws are just pieces of paper.

You don't seem to understand my argument, my argument is that your piece of paper isn't somehow more special or has more power then that other piece of paper. Americans seem to revere this piece of paper like a religious texts.

[Dystemper]

History is long, but for a long time we haven't had such tyrannical governments, and it had nothing to do with everyone having guns.

Your faith in a piece of paper is rather disturbing, specially when you look at the current state of your country.

The current state of our country is great, not sure what the fuck you at talking about. Or is that more if your "America sucks because I am a Elitist Euro snob" feelings creeping in

[Mullet Man]

Yes, name calling when you cant handle your self with words.. Lol, have anything to actually bring to the table??

.

I have, and they where all safe. Never felt the need for a gun, not even once.



Yet you seem hellbent on seeing danger everywhere in your made up world.





My age is irrelevant, but lets say its old enough to realize that peace here has been a thing for over 70 years now. That is a very long time to live in peace and there isn't a cloud on the horizon here. Things have changed a lot in 70 years up to a point were Europe isn't at war with each other at all and is at its hight of working together. Everyone has realized that you can win a country with war anymore, the rest of the world would not allow it. The world is ever changing towards more inclusion with each other, not less. An all out war doenst do anyone any favors as no one wants to rule a pile of rubble. The only ones who want that are religious nutjobs, and that is a good reason to keep them from making the rules.

I don't not believe you have ever done any of the things I listed.

If you think 70 years of stability is a long time you are, again, naive.
Your entire world view is Europe, which you can thank the US for saving, with all our gun toting citizens.
There are active tyrannical governments in place today in other parts of the world.

[Dystemper]

Yes, name calling when you cant handle your self with words.. Lol, have anything to actually bring to the table??

.

I have, and they where all safe. Never felt the need for a gun, not even once.



Yet you seem hellbent on seeing danger everywhere in your made up world.





My age is irrelevant, but lets say its old enough to realize that peace here has been a thing for over 70 years now. That is a very long time to live in peace and there isn't a cloud on the horizon here. Things have changed a lot in 70 years up to a point were Europe isn't at war with each other at all and is at its hight of working together. Everyone has realized that you can win a country with war anymore, the rest of the world would not allow it. The world is ever changing towards more inclusion with each other, not less. An all out war doenst do anyone any favors as no one wants to rule a pile of rubble. The only ones who want that are religious nutjobs, and that is a good reason to keep them from making the rules.

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You don't seem to understand my argument, my argument is that your piece of paper isn't somehow more special or has more power then that other piece of paper. Americans seem to revere this piece of paper like a religious texts.

I guess those problems in Serbia and Croatia were just misunderstandings. It was only in the 90s that most Germany was unified. That Poland was freed. Ask a German person who grew up in the 80s about the fear that Russia was going to send battalion after battalion into Germany through th Fulda gap

[misterpuk]

Your reading comprehension just isn't up to snuff. They already said it was also because taking that second job wouldnt be good for the kids. You need to spend time as a family or they'll turn out messed up like you. Besides, an additional 1200 is a ton of money for the majority of families.

You should be happy your tax money is going towards helping the next generation to be more educated. Maybe they'll be smart enough to pass modern gun laws the rest of the world have already adopted.

If you really cared about your taxes, maybe you should take a look at exorbitant military spending, corporate tax havens, and throwing money at "allies" that support terrorists and commit war crimes in yemen.

Nonsense. My reading comprehension is just fine.

I'd rather see a father work hard to support his children.If it means working 60 hours a week to do it, then it teaches the children about personal responsibility and work ethic rather than asking for continuous help with everything.

I'm not saying there isn't a balance to be struck, but if you need to address a concern for your children's sake, not wanting to work a 2nd job for a bit is no excuse to let your concerns go unattended. If you're not doing everything you can to support yourself, then its just a load of excuses.

As far as where my taxes go, we can talk about tax heavens and support of other coutries. We can talk about military spending too. We'll also need to discuss spending on welfare programs and pet projects for legislators.

There's so much fat out there, cutting all of those areas could likely address things like securing school grounds, providing firearms education, and bettering our health care situation to ensure those who need mental health get it. All of which address actual problems proactively.

[Citizen T]

You don't seem to understand my argument, my argument is that your piece of paper isn't somehow more special or has more power then that other piece of paper. Americans seem to revere this piece of paper like a religious texts.

No. We just believe in the rule of law - not the rule of man. That "piece of paper" outlines clearly how it can be changed. Use that method and quit trying to do end runs around it.

Soccer (football) has existed as we know it for about 150 years. Well, I think the rules of not using your hands is stupid and out-dated. We can just ignore that rule now because it's just a rule on a piece of paper.

[Dystemper]

No. We just believe in the rule of law - not the rule of man. That "piece of paper" outlines clearly how it can be changed. Use that method and quit trying to do end runs around it.

Soccer (football) has existed as we know it for about 150 years. Well, I think the rules of not using your hands is stupid and out-dated. We can just ignore that rule now because it's just a rule on a piece of paper.

Same with the monarchy. It's silly and out dated. Sieze all Thier wealth and property and kick all the royals out and strip them of everything they own. After all it's just out dated

[Svifnymr]

Basically, if you're an unlicensed random that wants to sell a firearm, you can willfully do it at a gun show.

Actually, you can do it anywhere. At gunshows you'll have more competition as well, and you're also assuming a level of trust between strangers. There are also ATF agents at various shows, and if you are buying guns to resell, it is illegal and they can prosecute you if they would actually get off their ass to do it.

Also, you'll notice at gun shows some people sell just a specific brand of firearm, like Sig or Kimber. These are generally lobbyists that had a bill of sale go to them from someone at that company, to sell it on a private level, as they have no official affiliation with the company at the time. These reps are also exploiting the law.

This is not a thing, I don't know what you MEANT to say, but Kimber is not shuffling guns to some third party and sending them to a gunshow to sell as a private individual...

The language isn't very clear if you read the entire law. Or it just doesn't seem well thought out. Which I suppose is why this loophole exists.

Private sales were not a mixup, they were an intentional part of the law specifically set out as legal without the background check. It is not a loophole, technicality or anything else. It is the LAW. If you say you can only sell Bagels on Sunday and you cannot sell Bagels on any other day, selling Bagels on Sunday is not a loophole.

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Any kind.
All the data we have is from either media...or from that fund of gun safety.
There is no official data anywhere.
There is zero research being made.
We dont even know how many school shootings there has been.
We are in the dark pretty much.

There are so few school shootings that there is no need to do a study. Do you want the CDC to do a study on Shark Attacks in Florida?

[Deleted]

There are so few school shootings that there is no need to do a study. Do you want the CDC to do a study on Shark Attacks in Florida?

Yet you do studies for other problems that kill the same amount of people as "gun violence".
Its not only "school shootings" you dont study.
Its "gun violence" as a whole.

[Svifnymr]

Or life inside of a city. Or life on Earth generally.

There are some estimates that even that 300m number could be off by half or more. And I have no idea if those numbers include, for instance, stripped AR lowers which are legally firearms. And no idea whatsoever if there is any estimate of how many 80% AR and pistol lowers there are that just need an hour or so of tooling to be ready to build out.

As I mentioned before, if you look at the ATF's manufacturer numbers for 2016, add up the guys whose only rifles are AR15s (Colt, Windham, Spikes, et cetera) and exclude Anderson, who is listed at like 400,000 and that seems odd, there were about 900,000 AR15's made in 2016, in the same year you had 354 deaths by rifle.

That excludes Ruger and Remington (Bushmaster/ DPMS) even.

So who knows how many total guns there are, but in 2016, at least a million AR15's were made.

[Shadowferal]

Too many conspiracy shit now...and all from people who don't live here in the US.

[Svifnymr]

And in the last 100 years how many times has there been genocides in Europe because one government decided to exteriminate a large portion of Thier citizens? Don't hold Europe up as some beacon of light all should aspire to be.

You know, the NRA organized donated guns to be sent to the UK for use in homeguard units. After the war of course, they rounded the guns up and tossed them in the ocean, they certainly don't trust their people to be armed.

[Mullet Man]

Yet you do studies for other problems that kill the same amount of people as "gun violence".
Its not only "school shootings" you dont study.
Its "gun violence" as a whole.

There are tons of studies on Gun Violence.

Take your pick:
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=gun+violence+studies
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=school+shooting+studies

[Deleted]

There are tons of studies on Gun Violence.

Take your pick:
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=gun+violence+studies
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=school+shooting+studies

Literally the second option of both yor searches are telling me there is a lack of research xD

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/a...health/553430/
https://www.theatlantic.com/educatio...unting/553412/

[Svifnymr]

Yet you do studies for other problems that kill the same amount of people as "gun violence".
Its not only "school shootings" you dont study.
Its "gun violence" as a whole.

We don't study it except for all the studies about it?
You're ignoring all the studies done because you buy into this false narrative that the CDC can't do gun studies. Did you read the CDC gun violence study of 2013 I linked? I understand you're not an American, but do you not care about all the NIJ studies or the various private party studies?

And I mention school shootings because you keep saying we don't even know how many, when the answer is that there's just not enough to bother with actually creating another table in a form.

Same way when the ATF was asked how much the AWB reduced assault weapon violence, the answer was there's no way to know since their use was so negligible before, during and after the ban, there's no way to really measure a change. You need to lump AR15's in with all rifles because there's just not enough use in crime to track them separately!

[Mullet Man]

Literally the second option of both yor searches are telling me there is a lack of research xD

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/a...health/553430/
https://www.theatlantic.com/educatio...unting/553412/

There are 499,000 results and 3,810,000 results respectively.
I'm sure you can cherry pick whatever you want from those lists.

Only an intellectually dishonest person would continue to push a notion that we are not studying these topics.

[Deleted]

There are 499,000 results and 3,810,000 results respectively.
I'm sure you can cherry pick whatever you want from those lists.

Only an intellectually dishonest person would continue to push a notion that we are not studying these topics.

Then this articles are lying to me?
They read:

After a deadly shooting, the debate always, it seems, breaks down like this: One side argues for gun control, and the other argues there is no research proving those measures work. There is, in fact, little research into gun violence at all—especially compared to other causes of death in the United States.

Compared with other leading causes of death, gun violence was associated with less funding and fewer publications than predicted based on mortality rate.
Gun violence had 1.6% of the funding predicted ($1.4 billion predicted, $22 million observed) and had 4.5% of the volume of publications predicted (38 897 predicted, 1738 observed) from the regression analyses. Gun violence killed about as many individuals as sepsis. However, funding for gun violence research was about 0.7% of that for sepsis and publication volume about 4%. In relation to mortality rates, gun violence research was the least-researched cause of death and the second-least funded cause of death after falls

President Obama signed an executive order directing the National Institutes of Health to fund research into gun violence after the Sandy Hook shooting, but the program has since petered out.

[Mullet Man]

Then this articles are lying to me?
They read:

After a deadly shooting, the debate always, it seems, breaks down like this: One side argues for gun control, and the other argues there is no research proving those measures work. There is, in fact, little research into gun violence at all—especially compared to other causes of death in the United States.

Compared with other leading causes of death, gun violence was associated with less funding and fewer publications than predicted based on mortality rate.
Gun violence had 1.6% of the funding predicted ($1.4 billion predicted, $22 million observed) and had 4.5% of the volume of publications predicted (38 897 predicted, 1738 observed) from the regression analyses. Gun violence killed about as many individuals as sepsis. However, funding for gun violence research was about 0.7% of that for sepsis and publication volume about 4%. In relation to mortality rates, gun violence research was the least-researched cause of death and the second-least funded cause of death after falls

President Obama signed an executive order directing the National Institutes of Health to fund research into gun violence after the Sandy Hook shooting, but the program has since petered out.

Its not up for me to determine if what you read online is a lie or not.
That is up to you to determine.

You can read endless studies from the left, right, and center, on any topic.
Its up to you determine what biases are being presented, and the validity of the study.

[urasim]

First a thing that most people forget:
Rights are not absolute.
You have a right to drive. But you need to earn and proof that you can drive.
And that right can be taken away.

You don't have a right to drive. It's a privilege.

What things can be done to prevent ( or atleast lower shootings).

Ah, at least you aren't stupid enough to say that things can be prevented. Nothing can be 100% prevented.

Licenses: Just like with cars. More complex guns need a other licenses. 1 for handguns, 1 for hunting rifles etc. And some should be harder to get. ( bigger back ground check etc). But also you need to show to a ( a instructor) that you can handle , clean the gun. Know the laws etc. Just like with cars a theory and practical exam.

Guns aren't complex. I've never held a gun, but I'm 100% certain I can take one apart and put it back together. I can't say the same thing about a car. I don't even know how cars work... I know from just looking at a gun how it works. Hell, I know more about how guns operate than my fucking computer, and I have taken computer classes.

What does bigger background checks even mean? The Florida shooter had background checks done on him and he passed. Why? Because the 30 or so times the cops came to see him they didn't file anything. The FBI didn't file anything. Law enforcement fucked up. Better background checks couldn't have prevented this. The Vegas shooter passed all background checks, too. You know why? Because he was a normal person with no criminal background or shady dealings.

Background: If a person has a certain type of crime, rage, instability problems he or she should not get guns.

Background checks already take all that, and more, into account... FFS.

Taking guns away: If a person does something unlawful or is no longer capable ( aka has committed a crime, has become unstable etc). Government should be able to take away the guns. Even if he or she has not done anything yet. Just like with cars. If you get to many/big DUI.

They do this already. If you've committed a crime you can't buy or own a gun.

All gun type's should be able to be owned: But certain guns, a person should always store it somewhere save. ( if you have enough money to buy 2 or 4 guns. You have enough money for a gun save). Breaking it is guns away.

It's up to the gun owner on where he/she stores it. Obviously, we would all want them to store it in safe, but we have no right to tell them what to do with their property. It's dangerous to start forcing people to do certain things within their home. You don't want the government in your personal space.

Open carry laws: Its bull shit insane. If you are walking you should not be able to carry a gun if you are in a residential zone. So hunting is okay. But open carrying is just showing your dick.

I don't agree. It's showing people not to fuck with them. They are less likely to get mugged for instance. Or less likely to get raped.

Ammo: standard ammo should only be sold to private gun owners. Special ammo should only be sold to certified gun ranges. So people can shoot them there.

I don't know how I feel about that. I kinda agree... But that shit is expensive and can easily be made for much less if you have the proper tools. Would have to think more on this point.

Weapon additions: Anything that changes ( upgrades) the fire power, speed etc of a gun should be banned or only allowed if the gun is stored in a save at a certified gun range.

Bump stocks don't actually increase fire rate(a gun pro can fire just as fast without it, and the modification actually makes it more inaccurate). A suppressor doesn't make a gun more deadly. A scope doesn't make it more accurate. There are things that do make a gun more deadly, but they are already banned, and you can be jailed if you modify your gun in those ways.

Time to get guns: Guns should be sold with a time period of 2 weeks. ( i know it is in most cases like this.) but it should be in all cases. And background check should be done before you get the gun. ( a recheck)

Make it a year and you'd still see killings... What does time have to do with this? This is a silly point.

Country wide system: There should be a system where gun sellers register guns sales to persons. So if you buy a gun at wall mart and then 1 day later you buy one at ( insert hunting store). It should give a ping in that system. If a person who is on a watch list because of ( insert problem) it should give a ping. And this data base should be linked to all agency's.

To do what? Track law abiding citizens? You know how much this will cost? Do you know how many guns are in the US that's not "registered"? Also, registering guns in inherently against the second amendment. If the government knew where all the guns were, they could seize them easier without difficulty if they went tyrannical.

america's emotional problem; where do these shootings come from. There are other shootings all around the world and other country's with guns. But america seems to be the best by a larger margin in the western world.

I have a theory about it, but it's sort of conspiratorial at the moment. When I gather more data, I'll publish my findings.

TL;DR: Nothing you've said will prevent or reduce anything.

[Dacien]

I don't think it would be right for students to be given an assignment to write to lawmakers urging support for the 2nd Amendment.

Similarly, I don't approve of a seventh grade teacher instructing her students to write to lawmakers pushing for gun control as a classroom assignment.