View Poll Results: Do you Support Assault Weapons Ban?

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  • Yes

    2,862 60.35%
  • No

    1,880 39.65%
  1. #58301
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    You register to vote one time (unless you move), and the deadline only comes into play if you wait until the last second to register to vote (and only for that first vote). You don't have to register for every vote.

    Discussions of policy are just discussions of the personal experiences of oneself and others and how those should or should not justify reducing the rights/privileges a group.

    Here is a reality, you are more likely to be murdered without a weapon than you are by an "AR-15" or an "AK" in the US.

    About 10% of the firearms in the US legally changed hands in 2020, i.e. had background checks performed.
    Did you just say that private sales without background checks are illegal in the US?
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before. A bunch of times actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

  2. #58302
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    Did you just say that private sales without background checks are illegal in the US?
    Yeah, he doesn't know that 33 states have the gunshow loophole, meaning that if they go to a gunshow, they can legally buy a gun without even giving any information or a background check. Including from dealers.

  3. #58303
    I am Murloc! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by postman1782 View Post
    Yeah, he doesn't know that 33 states have the gunshow loophole, meaning that if they go to a gunshow, they can legally buy a gun without even giving any information or a background check. Including from dealers.
    No. Just... no.


    "The difference between stupidity
    and genius is that genius has its limits."

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  4. #58304
    The Unstoppable Force Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    Did you just say that private sales without background checks are illegal in the US?
    Please note the "i.e.", ffl transactions are the only tracked legal sales.
    Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
    “Whoever said the pen is mightier than the sword obviously never encountered automatic weapons.”
    "His knowledge on that topic is only power point deep..." "Power corrupts and PowerPoint corrupts absolutely."
    "Who's the more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him?"

  5. #58305
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    Please note the "i.e.", ffl transactions are the only tracked legal sales.
    What do you think i.e. means?
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before. A bunch of times actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

  6. #58306
    The Unstoppable Force Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by postman1782 View Post
    Yeah, he doesn't know that 33 states have the gunshow loophole, meaning that if they go to a gunshow, they can legally buy a gun without even giving any information or a background check. Including from dealers.
    WRONG! Every sale made by an FFL dealer MUST have the background check performed NO MATTER WHERE THE SALE TAKES PLACE. This includes internet sales. This is federal law.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    What do you think i.e. means?
    Id est, or "that is". It is a clarification statement.
    Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
    “Whoever said the pen is mightier than the sword obviously never encountered automatic weapons.”
    "His knowledge on that topic is only power point deep..." "Power corrupts and PowerPoint corrupts absolutely."
    "Who's the more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him?"

  7. #58307
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    Id est, or "that is". It is a clarification statement.
    Exactly, so every sale that has no background check performed would therefore be deemed illegal.
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before. A bunch of times actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

  8. #58308
    The Unstoppable Force Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    Exactly, so every sale that has no background check performed would therefore be deemed illegal.
    No, it means that every ffl transfer was legal and accounted for about 10% of all firearms in the US.
    Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
    “Whoever said the pen is mightier than the sword obviously never encountered automatic weapons.”
    "His knowledge on that topic is only power point deep..." "Power corrupts and PowerPoint corrupts absolutely."
    "Who's the more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him?"

  9. #58309
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    No. Just... no.
    Oh, do you think that isn't happening? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_show_loophole

    Now, what if I told you there is video evidence of it happening, even from "dealers", because no private person, would have over 500+ AR-15s to sell in one fucking weekend. I can't seem to find the video anymore, but it was literally a sting done by NBC a few years ago, where a guy went into a gun show, and came out with multiple handguns, and a rifle, without showing an ID, even though it is illegal to buy guns when you don't live in that state.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    WRONG! Every sale made by an FFL dealer MUST have the background check performed NO MATTER WHERE THE SALE TAKES PLACE. This includes internet sales. This is federal law.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Id est, or "that is". It is a clarification statement.
    Again, I am trying to find the video, but it literally happened.

  10. #58310
    The Unstoppable Force Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by postman1782 View Post
    Oh, do you think that isn't happening? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_show_loophole

    Now, what if I told you there is video evidence of it happening, even from "dealers", because no private person, would have over 500+ AR-15s to sell in one fucking weekend. I can't seem to find the video anymore, but it was literally a sting done by NBC a few years ago, where a guy went into a gun show, and came out with multiple handguns, and a rifle, without showing an ID, even though it is illegal to buy guns when you don't live in that state.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Again, I am trying to find the video, but it literally happened.
    https://www.atf.gov/file/56651/download Here is the ATF's take on the "gun show loophole". Selling a firearm outside of these regulations is a federal crime. If the ATF is not enforcing these laws, that is the fault of the ATF and not the laws.
    Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
    “Whoever said the pen is mightier than the sword obviously never encountered automatic weapons.”
    "His knowledge on that topic is only power point deep..." "Power corrupts and PowerPoint corrupts absolutely."
    "Who's the more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him?"

  11. #58311
    I am Murloc! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by postman1782 View Post
    Oh, do you think that isn't happening? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_show_loophole
    You're legitimately embarrassing yourself because you have no idea what you're talking about.


    Quote Originally Posted by postman1782 View Post
    Now, what if I told you there is video evidence of it happening, even from "dealers", because no private person, would have over 500+ AR-15s to sell in one fucking weekend. I can't seem to find the video anymore, but it was literally a sting done by NBC a few years ago, where a guy went into a gun show, and came out with multiple handguns, and a rifle, without showing an ID, even though it is illegal to buy guns when you don't live in that state.
    Sure, show us not one, but several such videos. Show us that it's commonplace and not just anecdotal.

    But you won't be able to.

    Because with very few exceptions, dealers with an FFL will be conducting background checks. Dealers with an FFL won't be pretending to be a private seller at a gun show, because it's impossible to hide in the FFL paperwork that's required by federal law. You might find an occasional black marketeer who never had an FFL but traffics in firearms being stupid enough to pose as a suspiciously-large-inventory private seller at a gun show, but the ATF cracks down pretty hard on them, as they should. Again, that's hardly going to be commonplace, though we should all wish that gun traffickers were routinely that stupid.

    And sure, everyone found to be violating federal law at a gun show (or anywhere, really) should have the book thrown at them.


    "The difference between stupidity
    and genius is that genius has its limits."

    --Alexandre Dumas-fils

  12. #58312
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    You're legitimately embarrassing yourself because you have no idea what you're talking about.



    Sure, show us not one, but several such videos. Show us that it's commonplace and not just anecdotal.

    But you won't be able to.

    Because with very few exceptions, dealers with an FFL will be conducting background checks. Dealers with an FFL won't be pretending to be a private seller at a gun show, because it's impossible to hide in the FFL paperwork that's required by federal law. You might find an occasional black marketeer who never had an FFL but traffics in firearms being stupid enough to pose as a suspiciously-large-inventory private seller at a gun show, but the ATF cracks down pretty hard on them, as they should. Again, that's hardly going to be commonplace, though we should all wish that gun traffickers were routinely that stupid.

    And sure, everyone found to be violating federal law at a gun show (or anywhere, really) should have the book thrown at them.
    It was literally 1 video, going to 3 different states' gun shows, as a resident of not any of those 3 states. Not a single name was given, no ID shown, even one point admitting that he couldn't pass a background check if he wanted to. Which is also against the fucking law.

    But there was one guy in another video that I know I saw a guy admit to selling over 2 or 300 AR-15s in one weekend gun show, no private seller has that amount of guns. If you did, you would be on a list.

  13. #58313
    The Unstoppable Force Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by postman1782 View Post
    It was literally 1 video, going to 3 different states' gun shows, as a resident of not any of those 3 states. Not a single name was given, no ID shown, even one point admitting that he couldn't pass a background check if he wanted to. Which is also against the fucking law.

    But there was one guy in another video that I know I saw a guy admit to selling over 2 or 300 AR-15s in one weekend gun show, no private seller has that amount of guns. If you did, you would be on a list.
    Once again, it is illegal for a dealer to sell any firearm without performing a background check. There is no loop hole that allows them to legally bypass this, be it at a gun show, over the internet, or in their garage. If a dealer is breaking federal law, they need to be punished accordingly.
    Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
    “Whoever said the pen is mightier than the sword obviously never encountered automatic weapons.”
    "His knowledge on that topic is only power point deep..." "Power corrupts and PowerPoint corrupts absolutely."
    "Who's the more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him?"

  14. #58314
    I think I responded to this already, but in light of Sleepy Joe's new gun control push, no, I don't support an "assault" weapon ban.

  15. #58315
    I am Murloc! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by postman1782 View Post
    It was literally 1 video, going to 3 different states' gun shows, as a resident of not any of those 3 states. Not a single name was given, no ID shown, even one point admitting that he couldn't pass a background check if he wanted to. Which is also against the fucking law.
    Only the third thing is against the law, at least for the seller.


    Quote Originally Posted by postman1782 View Post
    But there was one guy in another video that I know I saw a guy admit to selling over 2 or 300 AR-15s in one weekend gun show, no private seller has that amount of guns. If you did, you would be on a list.
    By all means, produce the video. Because I have serious doubts about your recollection, but if your recollection is somehow true, I'd love to see if he's since been brought up on charges. That kind of thing is very specifically what the ATF targets for prosecution. Again, as they should.

    But guns from private sellers are only a tiny fraction of the ones available at a gun show. All the rest are subject to the same background checks you'd have if you went to a store.


    "The difference between stupidity
    and genius is that genius has its limits."

    --Alexandre Dumas-fils

  16. #58316
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    By all means, produce the video. Because I have serious doubts about your recollection, but if your recollection is somehow true, I'd love to see if he's since been brought up on charges. That kind of thing is very specifically what the ATF targets for prosecution. Again, as they should.

    But guns from private sellers are only a tiny fraction of the ones available at a gun show. All the rest are subject to the same background checks you'd have if you went to a store.
    Also worth noting is that even if such a video exists, I don't know what it's supposed to be evidence of in the context of the overall debate. This is already extremely illegal, most of the pro-gun rights people in this thread have stated plainly that we think it's appropriate for it to be illegal, and no one is proposing legalizing it. Finding an example of laws being broken isn't a compelling argument to make more laws with increasingly arcane rules.

  17. #58317
    Quote Originally Posted by postman1782 View Post
    Yeah, he doesn't know that 33 states have the gunshow loophole, meaning that if they go to a gunshow, they can legally buy a gun without even giving any information or a background check. Including from dealers.
    A dealer has to run a 4473 on every firearm sold in all 50 states, which encompasses the vast majority of all sales at gun shows

  18. #58318
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    Also worth noting is that even if such a video exists, I don't know what it's supposed to be evidence of in the context of the overall debate. This is already extremely illegal, most of the pro-gun rights people in this thread have stated plainly that we think it's appropriate for it to be illegal, and no one is proposing legalizing it. Finding an example of laws being broken isn't a compelling argument to make more laws with increasingly arcane rules.
    It's less about implementing arcane rules but about rules that can be enforced and showed to work in other countries. But the ban-all-guns-boogeyman just makes it impossible, so yeah.
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before. A bunch of times actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

  19. #58319
    The Unstoppable Force Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    It's less about implementing arcane rules but about rules that can be enforced and showed to work in other countries. But the ban-all-guns-boogeyman just makes it impossible, so yeah.
    Enforce the rules already in place before adding more laws...
    Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
    “Whoever said the pen is mightier than the sword obviously never encountered automatic weapons.”
    "His knowledge on that topic is only power point deep..." "Power corrupts and PowerPoint corrupts absolutely."
    "Who's the more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him?"

  20. #58320
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormdash View Post
    A dealer has to run a 4473 on every firearm sold in all 50 states, which encompasses the vast majority of all sales at gun shows
    Not when they're selling firearms from their personal collection they're holding for more than a year. A weird exception.
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before. A bunch of times actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

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