Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[Shadowferal]

I see american culture as something extremely shattered with little to no cohesion and a very... what the best way to put it " everyone's out for themselves" vibe. Americans can't really accept this so they desperately spin around in circles between blaming inanimate objects to pop culture to political parties rather then accept the truth. Even now in your desperate plea for authority you want a study you don't believe to exist to simply disregard should it be found.

Opinion duly noted and dismissed as irrelevant by this particular American.

[Endus]

I find it weird how you bring up race constantly... the laws do not stop criminal intent simply act as an extra step as you yourself say.


You have to wash that skull of yours out a but not every thing is best observed through the lens of race.

Am I really getting your position wrong?


Let's check the next part of this same post.

Depends on their culture. Obviously a violent or greedy culture will have more negative actors then positive.


You can't simply take one group and then compare them to an entirely different group. People are the results of their environments and learned experiences. It's why when one city suffers a power outage you see people helping and caring for one another. While the same event in another city seed widespread arson and looting.

Ahh, blaming "culture".


And since culture's a component of race, you are talking about race. "I think blacks are the problem not because of their culture" is precisely as racist as if you said it was because of their skin color.


You keep bringing up race, by trying to dogwhistle about "culture". I keep responding to that, because "culture" doesn't factor in here. Not unless you mean American culture as a whole, and I doubt that, because . . .

I see american culture as something extremely shattered with little to no cohesion and a very... what the best way to put it " everyone's out for themselves" vibe.

So yeah, you're not arguing it's American culture as a whole.

That leaves us with you blaming particular cultural groups, which fundamentally boils down to "racism".

Also; multiculturalism is not a nation's culture being "shattered". Forcing a monoculture is just fascist, racist abuse.

Even now in your desperate plea for authority you want a study you don't believe to exist to simply disregard should it be found.

Expecting you to back your claims up with actual data and evidence is not a "plea for authority".

It's pointing out that you're making shit up and can't back up your claims.

[Specialka]

Am I really getting your position wrong?


Let's check the next part of this same post.





Ahh, blaming "culture".


And since culture's a component of race, you are talking about race. "I think blacks are the problem not because of their culture" is precisely as racist as if you said it was because of their skin color.


You keep bringing up race, by trying to dogwhistle about "culture". I keep responding to that, because "culture" doesn't factor in here. Not unless you mean American culture as a whole, and I doubt that, because . . .



So yeah, you're not arguing it's American culture as a whole.

That leaves us with you blaming particular cultural groups, which fundamentally boils down to "racism".

Also; multiculturalism is not a nation's culture being "shattered". Forcing a monoculture is just fascist, racist abuse.



Expecting you to back your claims up with actual data and evidence is not a "plea for authority".

It's pointing out that you're making shit up and can't back up your claims.

Seems that quite a few country in Europe are fascists in your eye. And you dare talk about you being "reasonable".

[Endus]

Seems that quite a few country in Europe are fascists in your eye. And you dare talk about you being "reasonable".

Fascism isn't some magical fairyland impossible myth, dude. It's a very real movement/ideology, and one that's found fertile ground throughout Europe within living memory in multiple nations.

So spare me the falsely aggrieved stance.

Besides the obvious Nazi Reich, there's Franco's Spain up to 1975, fascist Italy until '43, and a half-dozen or so others which carried strong fascist similarities at the least. And that's just talking about successful fascist or neo-fascist regimes that held governing power, not the even broader trend of fascist undertones or minority parties, that have been, and currently are, present in most European nations.

And others; I'm not singling out Europe here as some special hotbed. Just demonstrating how thoroughly ridiculous it is to pretend that fascism is some kind of distant mythical beast rather than a very real and active ongoing threat.

[Specialka]

Fascism isn't some magical fairyland impossible myth, dude. It's a very real movement/ideology, and one that's found fertile ground throughout Europe within living memory in multiple nations.

So spare me the falsely aggrieved stance.

Besides the obvious Nazi Reich, there's Franco's Spain up to 1975, fascist Italy until '43, and a half-dozen or so others which carried strong fascist similarities at the least. And that's just talking about successful fascist or neo-fascist regimes that held governing power, not the even broader trend of fascist undertones or minority parties, that have been, and currently are, present in most European nations.

And others; I'm not singling out Europe here as some special hotbed. Just demonstrating how thoroughly ridiculous it is to pretend that fascism is some kind of distant mythical beast rather than a very real and active ongoing threat.

Thanks for the european history lesson /s

" Forcing a monoculture is just fascist, racist abuse." Quite a few country in EU (and worldwide as well) ticks that box. Though anyone is free to live that culture in its own house but should refrain to do so on public space (depending of country). Quite a lot of fascists country according to you. You sure are reasonable /s

[Tentim]

Am I really getting your position wrong?


Let's check the next part of this same post.





Ahh, blaming "culture".


And since culture's a component of race, you are talking about race. "I think blacks are the problem not because of their culture" is precisely as racist as if you said it was because of their skin color.


You keep bringing up race, by trying to dogwhistle about "culture". I keep responding to that, because "culture" doesn't factor in here. Not unless you mean American culture as a whole, and I doubt that, because . . .



So yeah, you're not arguing it's American culture as a whole.

That leaves us with you blaming particular cultural groups, which fundamentally boils down to "racism".

Also; multiculturalism is not a nation's culture being "shattered". Forcing a monoculture is just fascist, racist abuse.



Expecting you to back your claims up with actual data and evidence is not a "plea for authority".

It's pointing out that you're making shit up and can't back up your claims.

I can't really argue a point if your going to assign me one. I get that you desperately want this to be about race so you can dismiss it since that seems to be how your mind works but it isn't.

[Edge-]

I see american culture as something extremely shattered with little to no cohesion and a very... what the best way to put it " everyone's out for themselves" vibe.

Really? So it's shattered everywhere? There's no subsection of peaceful monoculture? Is America one of the only "multicultural" countries in the world, then? Is that the explanation for our high levels of gun violence compared to similarly developed countries?

Americans can't really accept this so they desperately spin around in circles between blaming inanimate objects to pop culture to political parties rather then accept the truth.

Or, some people can't believe that access to an inanimate object, which is fairly unique to America amongst developed nations, might be the source of the problem.

But for some reason this is unfathomable to many, despite there being mountains of data backing this up.

I'll wait for you to start sharing studies and data on multiculturalism being the source of gun violence, or how some cultures are just inherently more prone to gun violence and shit.

Otherwise it's just a very obvious and not-subtle whistle.

Even now in your desperate plea for authority you want a study you don't believe to exist to simply disregard should it be found.

No honey, this is how discussions work. You're making a claim, I'm asking for data to back up your claim that sounds otherwise kinda like naked racist bullshit.

I can cite plenty of studies and data to support my position, can you? If not, have you ever considered why not?

[Endus]

Thanks for the european history lesson /s

" Forcing a monoculture is just fascist, racist abuse." Quite a few country in EU (and worldwide as well) ticks that box.

Then see the point about it being fascistic and, objectively speaking, racist.

"But it's actually done that way in some places" isn't a frickin' defense. It's a confession.

Though anyone is free to live that culture in its own house but should refrain to do so on public space (depending of country). Quite a lot of fascists country according to you. You sure are reasonable /s

You're literally stating people can't live comfortably and enjoy their own culture out of fear of societal and/or legal harassment and punishment.

Yeah. That's fascistic. It's literally no different than when Nazi Germany started doing the same to people based on their Jewish culture. Literally the exact same process and attitude.

And you're supporting that, rather than engaging in a bare minimum level of critical thought.

[Specialka]

Then see the point about it being fascistic and, objectively speaking, racist.

"But it's actually done that way in some places" isn't a frickin' defense. It's a confession.



You're literally stating people can't live comfortably and enjoy their own culture out of fear of societal and/or legal harassment and punishment.

Yeah. That's fascistic. It's literally no different than when Nazi Germany started doing the same to people based on their Jewish culture. Literally the exact same process and attitude.

And you're supporting that, rather than engaging in a bare minimum level of critical thought.

It is just that those cultures are not wanted there, and if they want to live by those standards, there are places where they can live. No one is forcing them to stay there.

[Endus]

It is just that those cultures are not wanted there, and if they want to live by those standards, there are places where they can live. No one is forcing them to stay there.

Literally the same approach implemented by the Nazis.

Again; you're confessing, not defending.

[Specialka]

Literally the same approach implemented by the Nazis.

Again; you're confessing, not defending.

If that's make happier to think that, go for it

[wunksta]

So why are some states not requiring background checks for all title transfers, including those by private sellers? Shouldn't all sellers be responsible for ensuring the safe transfer of weapons to those authorized to have them?

According to a poll done in 2014, 85 percent of all Texans support requiring background checks on all gun sales. Texas Republicans favored the checks by 79 percent and NRA members by 65 percent. According to a poll in 2017, 95% of all Americans support a universal background check. This seems like a common sense requirement that has wide support.

[Lanrefni]

So why are some states not requiring background checks for all title transfers, including those by private sellers? Shouldn't all sellers be responsible for ensuring the safe transfer of weapons to those authorized to have them?

According to a poll done in 2014, 85 percent of all Texans support requiring background checks on all gun sales. Texas Republicans favored the checks by 79 percent and NRA members by 65 percent. According to a poll in 2017, 95% of all Americans support a universal background check. This seems like a common sense requirement that has wide support.

NRA members may support it,but the NRA does not and they funnel a lot of Russian cash into Republican campaigns.

The reason the NRA doesn't support it is because more gun violence=more gun sales to easily frightened idiots,which inevitably results in more gun violence leading to more gun sales,the NRA doesn't give a fuck about dead people,just money.

[Mihalik]

It is just that those cultures are not wanted there, and if they want to live by those standards, there are places where they can live. No one is forcing them to stay there.

Which cultures? Common, let's be clear here so we can have an honest discussion.

Articulate for us which are these "unwanted cultures" and try to explain why are they "unwanted". Let's see if you can make a coherent argument that goes beyond "brown people" and "Sieg Heil".

Give it a shot.

[Specialka]

Which cultures? Common, let's be clear here so we can have an honest discussion.

Articulate for us which are these "unwanted cultures" and try to explain why are they "unwanted". Let's see if you can make a coherent argument that goes beyond "brown people" and "Sieg Heil".

Give it a shot.

Oh, I don't know. Those who can't stand to see a women in the street dressed with a skirt for instance. Those who insists to wear giant religious sign on the public space, etc...

[Specialka]

Ya that just sounds like xenophobia amplified by paranoia.

Or just people having lived in a lot of places and having a lot of experience of life.

[Elegiac]

Oh, I don't know. Those who can't stand to see a women in the street dressed with a skirt for instance. Those who insists to wear giant religious sign on the public space, etc...

So, Catholics?

As said, xenophobia amplified by paranoia. Don't try to pass off inundating yourself with decades of xenophobic garbage pushed by French media as "life experience".

[Specialka]

So, Catholics?

As said, xenophobia amplified by paranoia. Don't try to pass off inundating yourself with decades of xenophobic garbage pushed by French media as "life experience".

If they can't behave, sure. You do realize that I consider that religion should be a private matter and you should not have religious sign on the public property (it is already the case in public buildings, no religious sign allowed).

[Elegiac]

If they can't behave, sure.

Punishment should generally come *after* the offense, not preemptively targeting people based on demographic association like you seem to be advocating.

You do realize that I consider that religion should be a private matter and you should not have religious sign on the public property (it is already the case in public buildings, no religious sign allowed).

Yeah, I realise that. I just happen not to give a shit what 'you consider' since it's a nonsense opinion that apparently can't distinguish between the state endorsing a particular religion through signage on public property and individuals being free to express themselves so long as it does not represent a threat to the public.

Or, tldr: cool motive, still bigotry.

[Specialka]

Punishment should generally come *after* the offense, not preemptively targeting people based on demographic association like you seem to be advocating.



Yeah, I realise that. I just happen not to give a shit what 'you consider' since it's a nonsense opinion that apparently can't distinguish between the state endorsing a particular religion through signage on public property and individuals being free to express themselves so long as it does not represent a threat to the public.

Or, tldr: cool motive, still bigotry.

Who said preemptively. I said if they can't behave. Meaning they had their chance to behave and they did not take it.

They are free to "express" themselves on their private property.