Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[cubby]

You can leave with a gun the same day you buy it (if you are in an area that does not have waiting periods) from a dealer only if your background check comes back in short order. Of the last 10 firearms I have purchased, I have only had one that was cleared in less than 24 hours, most take 3+ days.

Faster does not equal easier, and faster is only if you count registration deadlines as a time to be included. How many guns have you bought in the past 2 years?

You keep making posts agreeing with the facts and reality. I appreciate it, but it feels like you don't actually agree.

Why do continue to think that personal experiences have any impact on discussions of policy?

- - - Updated - - -

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wire...tings-76590599

Like Georgia, where the mass shooter purchased his gun the same day he went on a murder spree.

I'm trying to find the exact list, but apparently only 10 states require waiting periods. Plus DC.

Yeah - it's amazing that the gun folks, ahem, still try to nickel and dime themselves out of reality. Kellhound is doing it above, continually. Amazes me they fight reality like this.

- - - Updated - - -

Most firearms are sold through FFL dealers, especially now with internet sales. Private sales are a pain to set up.

Any data on that? Any cites or references?

[Kellhound]

You keep making posts agreeing with the facts and reality. I appreciate it, but it feels like you don't actually agree.

Why do continue to think that personal experiences have any impact on discussions of policy?

- - - Updated - - -



Yeah - it's amazing that the gun folks, ahem, still try to nickel and dime themselves out of reality. Kellhound is doing it above, continually. Amazes me they fight reality like this.

- - - Updated - - -



Any data on that? Any cites or references?

You register to vote one time (unless you move), and the deadline only comes into play if you wait until the last second to register to vote (and only for that first vote). You don't have to register for every vote.

Discussions of policy are just discussions of the personal experiences of oneself and others and how those should or should not justify reducing the rights/privileges a group.

Here is a reality, you are more likely to be murdered without a weapon than you are by an "AR-15" or an "AK" in the US.

About 10% of the firearms in the US legally changed hands in 2020, i.e. had background checks performed.

[Mayhem]

You register to vote one time (unless you move), and the deadline only comes into play if you wait until the last second to register to vote (and only for that first vote). You don't have to register for every vote.

Discussions of policy are just discussions of the personal experiences of oneself and others and how those should or should not justify reducing the rights/privileges a group.

Here is a reality, you are more likely to be murdered without a weapon than you are by an "AR-15" or an "AK" in the US.

About 10% of the firearms in the US legally changed hands in 2020, i.e. had background checks performed.

Did you just say that private sales without background checks are illegal in the US?

[postman1782]

Did you just say that private sales without background checks are illegal in the US?

Yeah, he doesn't know that 33 states have the gunshow loophole, meaning that if they go to a gunshow, they can legally buy a gun without even giving any information or a background check. Including from dealers.

[PhaelixWW]

Yeah, he doesn't know that 33 states have the gunshow loophole, meaning that if they go to a gunshow, they can legally buy a gun without even giving any information or a background check. Including from dealers.

No. Just... no.

[Kellhound]

Did you just say that private sales without background checks are illegal in the US?

Please note the "i.e.", ffl transactions are the only tracked legal sales.

[Mayhem]

Please note the "i.e.", ffl transactions are the only tracked legal sales.

What do you think i.e. means?

[Kellhound]

Yeah, he doesn't know that 33 states have the gunshow loophole, meaning that if they go to a gunshow, they can legally buy a gun without even giving any information or a background check. Including from dealers.

WRONG! Every sale made by an FFL dealer MUST have the background check performed NO MATTER WHERE THE SALE TAKES PLACE. This includes internet sales. This is federal law.

- - - Updated - - -

What do you think i.e. means?

Id est, or "that is". It is a clarification statement.

[Mayhem]

Id est, or "that is". It is a clarification statement.

Exactly, so every sale that has no background check performed would therefore be deemed illegal.

[Kellhound]

Exactly, so every sale that has no background check performed would therefore be deemed illegal.

No, it means that every ffl transfer was legal and accounted for about 10% of all firearms in the US.

[postman1782]

No. Just... no.

Oh, do you think that isn't happening? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_show_loophole

Now, what if I told you there is video evidence of it happening, even from "dealers", because no private person, would have over 500+ AR-15s to sell in one fucking weekend. I can't seem to find the video anymore, but it was literally a sting done by NBC a few years ago, where a guy went into a gun show, and came out with multiple handguns, and a rifle, without showing an ID, even though it is illegal to buy guns when you don't live in that state.

- - - Updated - - -

WRONG! Every sale made by an FFL dealer MUST have the background check performed NO MATTER WHERE THE SALE TAKES PLACE. This includes internet sales. This is federal law.

- - - Updated - - -



Id est, or "that is". It is a clarification statement.

Again, I am trying to find the video, but it literally happened.

[Kellhound]

Oh, do you think that isn't happening? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_show_loophole

Now, what if I told you there is video evidence of it happening, even from "dealers", because no private person, would have over 500+ AR-15s to sell in one fucking weekend. I can't seem to find the video anymore, but it was literally a sting done by NBC a few years ago, where a guy went into a gun show, and came out with multiple handguns, and a rifle, without showing an ID, even though it is illegal to buy guns when you don't live in that state.

- - - Updated - - -



Again, I am trying to find the video, but it literally happened.

https://www.atf.gov/file/56651/download Here is the ATF's take on the "gun show loophole". Selling a firearm outside of these regulations is a federal crime. If the ATF is not enforcing these laws, that is the fault of the ATF and not the laws.

[PhaelixWW]

Oh, do you think that isn't happening? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_show_loophole

You're legitimately embarrassing yourself because you have no idea what you're talking about.

Now, what if I told you there is video evidence of it happening, even from "dealers", because no private person, would have over 500+ AR-15s to sell in one fucking weekend. I can't seem to find the video anymore, but it was literally a sting done by NBC a few years ago, where a guy went into a gun show, and came out with multiple handguns, and a rifle, without showing an ID, even though it is illegal to buy guns when you don't live in that state.

Sure, show us not one, but several such videos. Show us that it's commonplace and not just anecdotal.

But you won't be able to.

Because with very few exceptions, dealers with an FFL will be conducting background checks. Dealers with an FFL won't be pretending to be a private seller at a gun show, because it's impossible to hide in the FFL paperwork that's required by federal law. You might find an occasional black marketeer who never had an FFL but traffics in firearms being stupid enough to pose as a suspiciously-large-inventory private seller at a gun show, but the ATF cracks down pretty hard on them, as they should. Again, that's hardly going to be commonplace, though we should all wish that gun traffickers were routinely that stupid.

And sure, everyone found to be violating federal law at a gun show (or anywhere, really) should have the book thrown at them.

[postman1782]

You're legitimately embarrassing yourself because you have no idea what you're talking about.



Sure, show us not one, but several such videos. Show us that it's commonplace and not just anecdotal.

But you won't be able to.

Because with very few exceptions, dealers with an FFL will be conducting background checks. Dealers with an FFL won't be pretending to be a private seller at a gun show, because it's impossible to hide in the FFL paperwork that's required by federal law. You might find an occasional black marketeer who never had an FFL but traffics in firearms being stupid enough to pose as a suspiciously-large-inventory private seller at a gun show, but the ATF cracks down pretty hard on them, as they should. Again, that's hardly going to be commonplace, though we should all wish that gun traffickers were routinely that stupid.

And sure, everyone found to be violating federal law at a gun show (or anywhere, really) should have the book thrown at them.

It was literally 1 video, going to 3 different states' gun shows, as a resident of not any of those 3 states. Not a single name was given, no ID shown, even one point admitting that he couldn't pass a background check if he wanted to. Which is also against the fucking law.

But there was one guy in another video that I know I saw a guy admit to selling over 2 or 300 AR-15s in one weekend gun show, no private seller has that amount of guns. If you did, you would be on a list.

[Kellhound]

It was literally 1 video, going to 3 different states' gun shows, as a resident of not any of those 3 states. Not a single name was given, no ID shown, even one point admitting that he couldn't pass a background check if he wanted to. Which is also against the fucking law.

But there was one guy in another video that I know I saw a guy admit to selling over 2 or 300 AR-15s in one weekend gun show, no private seller has that amount of guns. If you did, you would be on a list.

Once again, it is illegal for a dealer to sell any firearm without performing a background check. There is no loop hole that allows them to legally bypass this, be it at a gun show, over the internet, or in their garage. If a dealer is breaking federal law, they need to be punished accordingly.

[dwarven]

I think I responded to this already, but in light of Sleepy Joe's new gun control push, no, I don't support an "assault" weapon ban.

[PhaelixWW]

It was literally 1 video, going to 3 different states' gun shows, as a resident of not any of those 3 states. Not a single name was given, no ID shown, even one point admitting that he couldn't pass a background check if he wanted to. Which is also against the fucking law.

Only the third thing is against the law, at least for the seller.

But there was one guy in another video that I know I saw a guy admit to selling over 2 or 300 AR-15s in one weekend gun show, no private seller has that amount of guns. If you did, you would be on a list.

By all means, produce the video. Because I have serious doubts about your recollection, but if your recollection is somehow true, I'd love to see if he's since been brought up on charges. That kind of thing is very specifically what the ATF targets for prosecution. Again, as they should.

But guns from private sellers are only a tiny fraction of the ones available at a gun show. All the rest are subject to the same background checks you'd have if you went to a store.

[Spectral]

By all means, produce the video. Because I have serious doubts about your recollection, but if your recollection is somehow true, I'd love to see if he's since been brought up on charges. That kind of thing is very specifically what the ATF targets for prosecution. Again, as they should.

But guns from private sellers are only a tiny fraction of the ones available at a gun show. All the rest are subject to the same background checks you'd have if you went to a store.

Also worth noting is that even if such a video exists, I don't know what it's supposed to be evidence of in the context of the overall debate. This is already extremely illegal, most of the pro-gun rights people in this thread have stated plainly that we think it's appropriate for it to be illegal, and no one is proposing legalizing it. Finding an example of laws being broken isn't a compelling argument to make more laws with increasingly arcane rules.

[Stormdash]

Yeah, he doesn't know that 33 states have the gunshow loophole, meaning that if they go to a gunshow, they can legally buy a gun without even giving any information or a background check. Including from dealers.

A dealer has to run a 4473 on every firearm sold in all 50 states, which encompasses the vast majority of all sales at gun shows

[Mayhem]

Also worth noting is that even if such a video exists, I don't know what it's supposed to be evidence of in the context of the overall debate. This is already extremely illegal, most of the pro-gun rights people in this thread have stated plainly that we think it's appropriate for it to be illegal, and no one is proposing legalizing it. Finding an example of laws being broken isn't a compelling argument to make more laws with increasingly arcane rules.

It's less about implementing arcane rules but about rules that can be enforced and showed to work in other countries. But the ban-all-guns-boogeyman just makes it impossible, so yeah.