Poll: Do you Support Assault Weapons Ban?

  1. #20041
    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    Every time someone posts about "you don't know how to live around X" in America, I remember I live in a state with obnoxiously high legal and illegal gun ownership rates and I remember your arguments are null and void.

    When my city of 150k had twice the gun murders of the entirety of the UK, I think guns being a form of protections becomes a null and void point. It then becomes an argument of pure rates - do gun ownership societies without any meaningful control have less deaths than gun control societies?



    Are you so naive you rely upon a mechanical instrument that might fail or misfire? Do you honestly have no back ups? Come on, you sound more of a danger than a protection.
    After taking into account the poverty rates, standard of living and education levels of the nations, what did your rates look like?

    I am betting that area with equal poverty rates, standards of living and education levels showed a lower crime rate in the areas that were armed than the areas where the legal citizen was more often unarmed. Comparing a place in a great spot economically with a place in the shitter like the US is now isn't a fair comparison though, for us, getting rid of guns would actually make the crime rates worse.

  2. #20042
    Titan Kalyyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    Every time someone posts about "you don't know how to live around X" in America, I remember I live in a state with obnoxiously high legal and illegal gun ownership rates and I remember your arguments are null and void.

    When my city of 150k had twice the gun murders of the entirety of the UK, I think guns being a form of protections becomes a null and void point. It then becomes an argument of pure rates - do gun ownership societies without any meaningful control have less deaths than gun control societies?
    So what you're saying is "You have to sacrifice your safety for mine".

    Cool, thanks. Glad my well being is worth jack shit to you.

  3. #20043
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    Every time someone posts about "you don't know how to live around X" in America, I remember I live in a state with obnoxiously high legal and illegal gun ownership rates and I remember your arguments are null and void.

    When my city of 150k had twice the gun murders of the entirety of the UK, I think guns being a form of protections becomes a null and void point. It then becomes an argument of pure rates - do gun ownership societies without any meaningful control have less deaths than gun control societies?



    Are you so naive you rely upon a mechanical instrument that might fail or misfire? Do you honestly have no back ups? Come on, you sound more of a danger than a protection.

    You realize that the cities with the highest gun control in the nation (Chicago being chief amongst those. Amusingly that's where Obama hails from) has the highest death rate due to guns. I imagine you ignore the fact that those murders are almost exclusively gang related in some way.

    It's a proven fact that in places where armed law abiding citizens out number criminals that the gun death rate plummets. Plain and simple.

  4. #20044
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    Every time someone posts about "you don't know how to live around X" in America, I remember I live in a state with obnoxiously high legal and illegal gun ownership rates and I remember your arguments are null and void.

    When my city of 150k had twice the gun murders of the entirety of the UK, I think guns being a form of protections becomes a null and void point. It then becomes an argument of pure rates - do gun ownership societies without any meaningful control have less deaths than gun control societies?
    South Carolina also has a rather high rate of poverty for a region in a developed country; I would argue that the gun violence is more symptomatic of that, making it the root cause and primary issue to be addressed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  5. #20045
    Scarab Lord Zhangfei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    After taking into account the poverty rates, standard of living and education levels of the nations, what did your rates look like?
    Same. The UK has a significant immigrant population and a similar poverty rate. The difference is our government and police got on top of this years and years ago because it's bloody clear having weapons designed to slaughter indiscriminately and effectively en masse isn't a good way to define defence.

    I am betting that area with equal poverty rates, standards of living and education levels showed a lower crime rate in the areas that were armed than the areas where the legal citizen was more often unarmed. Comparing a place in a great spot economically with a place in the shitter like the US is now isn't a fair comparison though, for us, getting rid of guns would actually make the crime rates worse.
    Well you are epically wrong when you consider parts of Britain like Hull, aren't you?

    So what you're saying is "You have to sacrifice your safety for mine".
    So what you're saying is murder everybody who isn't me.

    Cool, thanks. Glad my well being is worth jack shit to you.

    You realize that the cities with the highest gun control in the nation (Chicago being chief amongst those. Amusingly that's where Obama hails from) has the highest death rate due to guns. I imagine you ignore the fact that those murders are almost exclusively gang related in some way.
    Absolutely! I'm also not ignoring a localised ban is meaningless and the gun running from my state alone to the great state of Illinois helped our economy. Localised bans are meaningless waffle. It has to be a national ban to be meaningful.

    South Carolina also has a rather high rate of poverty for a region in a developed country; I would argue that the gun violence is more symptomatic of that, making it the root cause and primary issue to be addressed.
    One way to address it - and every other violence related problem in America - would be to ban certain types of gun. It's not a "symptom," it's a cause. When you have very, very easy means to commit violence, you consider mass violence an option.
    In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.
    Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.
    This is why people ban guns. Gun supporters don't know what guns are.

  6. #20046
    Titan Kalyyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    So what you're saying is murder everybody who isn't me.

    Cool, thanks. Glad my well being is worth jack shit to you.
    Please explain how I'm saying that.

  7. #20047
    Scarab Lord Zhangfei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalyyn View Post
    Please explain how I'm saying that.
    As long as you can explain how I'm saying what you're accusing me of
    In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.
    Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.
    This is why people ban guns. Gun supporters don't know what guns are.

  8. #20048
    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    Well you are epically wrong when you consider parts of Britain like Hull, aren't you?
    From what I read about the place, you are talking about a place that has a higher unemployment than most other areas and is known for being a drug capital. Are you really sure you want to use that as an example?

  9. #20049
    Titan Kalyyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    As long as you can explain how I'm saying what you're accusing me of
    Because rather than just wanting to ban guns in your urban, well policed area, you're also proposing that we should ban guns in my area, where people are for the most part left to protect themselves.

    Now I realize that you expect me to be able to punch a man to death, but meth addicts pretty much have superhuman strength and don't fear death. Only good way to bring one down is to shoot him until he stops moving.

    So the easiest solution would be to just let me keep my guns. Besides, I've never committed a crime in my life. Why are you so damn convinced that I'm going to murder somebody?

  10. #20050
    Scarab Lord TwoNineMarine's Avatar
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    If a local ban doesn't work what makes you think a national ban will? Criminals, gang bangers especially, won't follow a ban, national or not.

    Please explain to me how a national band will effect any change.

  11. #20051
    Scarab Lord Zhangfei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    From what I read about the place, you are talking about a place that has a higher unemployment than most other areas and is known for being a drug capital. Are you really sure you want to use that as an example?
    My point exactly. Hull is awful. It still doesn't have epic amounts of homicide like America does on average.

    Because rather than just wanting to ban guns in your urban, well policed area, you're also proposing that we should ban guns in my area, where people are for the most part left to protect themselves.
    Why, in God's name, do you assume my area is well-policed, let alone urban? The outskirts of a small city are not "urban.0

    If a local ban doesn't work what makes you think a national ban will? Criminals, gang bangers especially, won't follow a ban, national or not.
    Because they've worked, and continue to work. Even better - someone carrying a gun at any time can be arrested. So those "gang bangers" etc can be stopped on the spot.
    In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.
    Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.
    This is why people ban guns. Gun supporters don't know what guns are.

  12. #20052
    So it's been a few hundred pages since I posted, and for those that weren't reading back in 800's I'll give a quick synopsis of where I'm coming from before addressing some of the recent posts.

    I work private security, some times personal, more commonly residential and/or commercial properties. I carry 90% of the time I'm on the job, both open and concealed. Outside of work I carry probably 95% of the time (5% off for places where I can't carry, schools, government buildings, bars and such) only due to the fact that I've had encounters from work spill over into my personal life. While I've never had to discharge my weapon either at work or during off hours I have had to draw it a half dozen times in the 8 years I've been on the job.

    I also collect guns, not from the "ooh historical, pretty" stand point, even my "collector pieces" are fully functioning. I enjoy shooting them at steel, clay, and paper targets.

    My fiance has her CCW and carries, as well as many of my friends. We've been known to sell pieces to each other as well as trade, and in my state as long as the two parties are both residents (and can legally possess a firearm) there is no requirement for a back ground check or visiting a local FFL dealer.

    On to responding to some posts, sorry they are from multiple people and may or may not be in any particular order:

    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    On the other hand I have no interest in taking a life because he wants my stereo, and I have little interest in laws that let you do it either.
    I agree to a point with you Wells, if someone breaks into my house in the middle of the night they are welcome to anything on the ground floor before the cops get there, however once they get up to the 2nd floor where the bedrooms are, all bets are off. At that point I don't know whether they are intending harm on myself and/or my family/friends or they are just looking for more loot and frankly I'm not taking chances. If someone was to force their way into my locked bedroom, the only way they're going out is on a stretcher, probably in a bag.

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Depends on the caliber and shot placement. It's completely plausible for someone to hit 2/6 shots and the intruder/assailant isn't down. If they can't reload or are out of ammo they're fucked. Two shots from a 9 to center mass isn't a guaranteed kill. I don't want to make it harder for good people to defend themselves. This isn't Hollywood.
    It may not be a guaranteed kill, but 2 hits center mass with Critical Duty/Defense or similar hollow points in 9mm and up will get you pretty close. For smaller calibers (like the .380 the fiance carries) just pull that trigger until it goes click, then load a second mag before you check to see if he's dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Themerlin View Post

    Exercise does a much better job at calming a person and relieving stress, leave it to an American to make shooting a therapeutic exercise, where all they have to do is move a finger.
    Personally I like sex as a stress reliever but recoil therapy is a close second. Not to mention the camaraderie that exists at shooting ranges, once you've thrown a couple hundred rounds down range with someone you feel a kinship between you. You chat about what you have, what you want, manufacturers, ammo and its lack of availability, all manner of things. Honestly with the exception of hearing protection its quite similar to being part of a car club.

    Quote Originally Posted by Åmbulance View Post
    Women.. /facepalm
    It is as much his fault as it is hers. Obviously he was the gun owner, it was his obligation to instruct her in the proper handling/safety procedures. Then again look at where they are, random spot in the woods, lets fire off a few rounds. It is people like this that make responsible owners look bad and gives more fuel to the antis.


    Oh and TwoNineMarine, while your views are a bit more extreme than my own, I'd like to take a moment and thank you for your service, I've known quite few Marines in my time and had it not been for a half rebuilt knee I'd have probably been one of them, Semper Fi.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mardhyn View Post
    Now this is just blatant trolling, at least before you had the credibility of maybe being stupid.
    Quote Originally Posted by SourceOfInfection View Post
    Sometimes you gotta stop sniffing used schoolgirl panties and start being a fucking samurai.

  13. #20053
    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    My point exactly. Hull is awful. It still doesn't have epic amounts of homicide like America does on average.
    That's weird, from what I read, it was a huge problem with crime. It has one of Britain's highest death rates per capita.

  14. #20054
    Titan Kalyyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    Why, in God's name, do you assume my area is well-policed, let alone urban? The outskirts of a small city are not "urban.0
    Alrighty then,

    Because rather than just wanting to ban guns in your suburban, un-policed death trap, you're also proposing that we should ban guns in my area, where people are for the most part left to protect themselves.

    Now I realize that you expect me to be able to punch a man to death, but meth addicts pretty much have superhuman strength and don't fear death. Only good way to bring one down is to shoot him until he stops moving.

    So the easiest solution would be to just let me keep my guns. Besides, I've never committed a crime in my life. Why are you so damn convinced that I'm going to murder somebody?

    Better?

  15. #20055
    Scarab Lord Zhangfei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    That's weird, from what I read, it was a huge problem with crime. It has one of Britain's highest death rates per capita.
    Right. I know. It's incomparable with America's death rates per capita, which is magnitudes higher than the UK. I picked the worst in the UK to prove that, despite Hull being horrendous, it cannot compare remotely to America's gun crime and homicides, proving crime =/= guns and uncontolled, under-trained guns = more crime and murder

    Because rather than just wanting to ban guns in your suburban, un-policed death trap, you're also proposing that we should ban guns in my area, where people are for the most part left to protect themselves.
    Well yeah, don't you want violent crime and murder to go down?
    In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.
    Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.
    This is why people ban guns. Gun supporters don't know what guns are.

  16. #20056
    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    Right. I know. It's incomparable with America's death rates per capita, which is magnitudes higher than the UK. I picked the worst in the UK to prove that, despite Hull being horrendous, it cannot compare remotely to America's gun crime and homicides, proving crime =/= guns and uncontolled, under-trained guns = more crime and murder
    Are you taking into account the entire US death rate or from similar areas? Cause I know after you deduct the crime rate from the towns with the strict gun control laws, the US death rate per capita falls considerably.

    So find a place with a similar economic situation in the US and compare cause we have about 4 or 5 towns that really throw us off from what I have read.

  17. #20057
    Titan Kalyyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    Well yeah, don't you want violent crime and murder to go down?
    The average home intruder around here doesn't have a gun. Maybe one every decade will. Gun crimes here are already just a slight tick above non-existent.

    However, the average home intruder around here will be pumped so full of drugs that they're basically the real life equivalent of one of those feral zombies from I Am Legend. Melee combat is dangerous enough with a sane enemy. It becomes logistically unreasonable when your target is jacked up on meth. The only safe response is to shoot them.

    But again, why are you so convinced that I'm a criminal just because I own weapons?

  18. #20058
    You are lucky Kalyyn, where I live, if they break into your house, you can best bet they are armed. They will have a gun, or knife or if push comes to shove they will come in with a hammer or crowbar, but they aren't going in without a weapon of some kind unless they know 100% for sure you aren't at home in which case it was probably a neighbor or close to it.

  19. #20059
    Titan Kalyyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    You are lucky Kalyyn, where I live, if they break into your house, you can best bet they are armed. They will have a gun, or knife or if push comes to shove they will come in with a hammer or crowbar, but they aren't going in without a weapon of some kind unless they know 100% for sure you aren't at home in which case it was probably a neighbor or close to it.
    Damn, that's rough. I'd have to sleep armed if I were there >.>

  20. #20060
    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    Because they've worked, and continue to work. Even better - someone carrying a gun at any time can be arrested. So those "gang bangers" etc can be stopped on the spot.
    You seem to forget the 4th Amendment to the Constitution, those "gang bangers" can't be stopped on the spot, not without probable cause, and since the majority of firearms confiscated from, used by, and therefore, I'm extrapolating a bit here, carried by said "gang bangers" are easily concealed pistols probable cause is even harder to argue.

    So whether the law is a total ban, or the current incarnation (felons can't possess) the likely hood of them getting "stopped on the spot" is the same.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mardhyn View Post
    Now this is just blatant trolling, at least before you had the credibility of maybe being stupid.
    Quote Originally Posted by SourceOfInfection View Post
    Sometimes you gotta stop sniffing used schoolgirl panties and start being a fucking samurai.

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