Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[hakujinbakasama]

I don't really expect much from politicians these days. Grain of salt must be taken. As for Assault Weapons, I don't really delve into that specifically. I tend to go on all of them. Assault Weapons sound like an advanced version of a gun(Haha sounds obvious at face value).

Assault
In common law, assault is the act of creating apprehension of an imminent harmful or offensive contact with a person

Weapon
A weapon, arm, or armament is any device used in order to inflict damage or harm to living beings, structures, or systems

So, basically, anything one can use to hurt another human being.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Sure what do you consider "safe storage" and would you want it to be mandatory in order to own a firearm?

I feel like owning a safe should definitely carry with it some incentives. Put a small tax break on it and safe sales will spike tremendously.

[lockedout]

I feel like owning a safe should definitely carry with it some incentives. Put a small tax break on it and safe sales will spike tremendously.

So buying a safe will get you a tax break? How is that saving lives?

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Assault
In common law, assault is the act of creating apprehension of an imminent harmful or offensive contact with a person

Weapon
A weapon, arm, or armament is any device used in order to inflict damage or harm to living beings, structures, or systems

So, basically, anything one can use to hurt another human being.

._. Never mind. Doubt I'll get an actual answer.

So buying a safe will get you a tax break? How is that saving lives?

Playing dumb aside. It means gun owners will get a safe. Put guns in them. Since there's a tax break on it. More sales=More gun owners putting guns in their safes. That equates more lives saved.

[lockedout]

Playing dumb aside. It means gun owners will get a safe. Put guns in them. Since there's a tax break on it. More sales=More gun owners putting guns in their safes. That equates more lives saved.

No because gun owners that wanted a safe already had one, a tax break "might" make some people buy a safe but who's to say they put the gun in it?

[hakujinbakasama]

._. Never mind. Doubt I'll get an actual answer.




Playing dumb aside. It means gun owners will get a safe. Put guns in them. Since there's a tax break on it. More sales=More gun owners putting guns in their safes. That equates more lives saved.

Listen, just because slang comes from elected officials doesn't make it anything more than slang. The problem I have is that people by into it due to the source rather than evidence. There isn't a universal way or distinction between "Assault Weapon" and 90% of all guns.

I don't order my whiskey sours on the rocks and bitch when it comes with ice. Nor do I complain when my soda doesn't come with diamonds.

[Wildtree]

Sure what do you consider "safe storage" and would you want it to be mandatory in order to own a firearm?

Yes, safe storage has to be mandatory or it wouldn't make sense.

What would be a safe storage? A safe comes to mind.
If weapons are stored in a cupboard, there has to be a locking mechanism that isn't easily to bypass.
We can be rational here, and say how the argument of a cupboard door can be broken with an axe a hammer etc. But that's still significant effort and force needed.
Kids likely won't break into a cupboard that way, just to get a hand on dads or moms weapons.

To register any purchase is really also the way to go... With that said, it would automatically close the existing loopholes at gun shows.
If the gun gets stolen, I have to be held responsible to report it within no later than 48 hours. I'd prefer 24 hours.
If the storage situation is settled, theft should be minimized. And if it happens that I violated the safety regulations, I will be fined for a first time with no less than $1000. If the gun was used in a crime, then criminal charges may apply as well. That should counter the rampant straw purchases as well. One faces already criminal charges when caught with straw purchase. So it's only consequent to extend the punishment even further if such purchase leads to a crime.
Further more, I would like to see actual classes when one obtains a permit. Make 2 things mandatory as well. For once CPR course, and some course on the responsible handling of firearms.

[lockedout]

Yes, safe storage has to be mandatory or it wouldn't make sense.

What would be a safe storage? A safe comes to mind.

What kind of safe and how big?

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Listen, just because slang comes from elected officials doesn't make it anything more than slang. The problem I have is that people by into it due to the source rather than evidence. There isn't a universal way or distinction between "Assault Weapon" and 90% of all guns.

I don't order my whiskey sours on the rocks and bitch when it comes with ice. Nor do I complain when my soda doesn't come with diamonds.

Yeah....comparing a gun and it's assault weapon terminology to drinks is really going to convince me.

[lockedout]

Make 2 things mandatory as well. For once CPR course, and some course on the responsible handling of firearms.

How will this stop criminals from shooting someone? Why are we making the people who follow the law jump through hoops when they aren't the problem?

[Wildtree]

What kind of safe and how big?

Depends on your need
If you got a colt it's obvious that it doesn't have to be big. If you have more weapons, it needs to be bigger. Hence why I mentioned cupboards too..
The costs of a safe can be very high. Smaller safes ought to be built into a wall though. It's gotta be more difficult to carry it away, than simply grab it under your arm and walk out with it. Bigger safes are normally also heavier anyway.

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How will this stop criminals from shooting someone? Why are we making the people who follow the law jump through hoops when they aren't the problem?

We know that injuries from firearms aren't all from criminal use alone, right?
A lot of such injuries happen from accidents. And those can and should be minimized too. And when they happen, it helps greatly to have basic CPR knowledge.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

How will this stop criminals from shooting someone? Why are we making the people who follow the law jump through hoops when they aren't the problem?

It's more then one way to fight Gun related deaths. You're stuck in binary thinking.

[lockedout]

Depends on your need
If you got a colt it's obvious that it doesn't have to be big. If you have more weapons, it needs to be bigger. Hence why I mentioned cupboards too..
The costs of a safe can be very high. Smaller safes ought to be built into a wall though. It's gotta be more difficult to carry it away, than simply grab it under your arm and walk out with it. Bigger safes are normally also heavier anyway.

If it isn't a very large safe bolted into the floor it is worthless. A small safe will just be stolen and opened somewhere else.

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It's more then one way to fight Gun related deaths. You're stuck in binary thinking.

There is no way to enforce people using a safe.

[Cthulhu 2020]

People who don't want to store their guns in a safe wouldn't put them in there anyway, so I'm not about to give them another excuse to skip out on taxes.

Their gun stored under their pillow is statistically more likely to be used on them than against an invader. If they're ok with that, so am I.

[Wildtree]

If it isn't a very large safe bolted into the floor it is worthless. A small safe will just be stolen and opened somewhere else.

That's what I said, wasn't it?
I said a small safe needs to be built into the wall... Once it's wall mounted, the thief has to either break into the safe at the location, or has to tear down the wall to break the safe free.
The vast amount of break ins happen FAST.... Get in fast, grab whats possible, get out fast.. The longer on the property, the higher the possibility to get caught.
I don't think a lot of thieves have the nerves to take the time to undergo some construction work to get to a safe, if they even find it. A wall safe can be hidden in various ways.

- - - Updated - - -

Their gun stored under their pillow is statistically more likely to be used on them than against an invader. If they're ok with that, so am I.

Franky, I'd get a headache from such hard object under my head all night.

[Eroginous]

I think you're misinterpreting what Eroginous is saying. He's saying that something should be defined not by how it was originally designed, but by how it's currently used in a specific instance, or at least by the common usage in more general terms. Legally speaking, cars are treated as deadly weapons in certain circumstances, for example, not that they're generally used as such.

I think he's saying that firearms are only rarely used as a weapon, and far more often as a tool for hobby marksmanship. Having some regulation because they can sometimes be used as a weapon is one thing. Treating all of them, all the time, like they're a loose and primed hand-grenade (like Feinstein does, for example) is another.

Yes, exactly.

It's amazing to me how people allow their thinking to become so distorted they can't read what I post and understand it for what it is. 'He's not saying things we agree with, so he must be just throwing out nonsense. We better just hand wave it away, making it okay to complete ignore him so we can continue our anti gun agenda.'

Yes, safe storage has to be mandatory or it wouldn't make sense.

What would be a safe storage? A safe comes to mind.
If weapons are stored in a cupboard, there has to be a locking mechanism that isn't easily to bypass.
We can be rational here, and say how the argument of a cupboard door can be broken with an axe a hammer etc. But that's still significant effort and force needed.
Kids likely won't break into a cupboard that way, just to get a hand on dads or moms weapons.

To register any purchase is really also the way to go... With that said, it would automatically close the existing loopholes at gun shows.
If the gun gets stolen, I have to be held responsible to report it within no later than 48 hours. I'd prefer 24 hours.
If the storage situation is settled, theft should be minimized. And if it happens that I violated the safety regulations, I will be fined for a first time with no less than $1000. If the gun was used in a crime, then criminal charges may apply as well. That should counter the rampant straw purchases as well. One faces already criminal charges when caught with straw purchase. So it's only consequent to extend the punishment even further if such purchase leads to a crime.
Further more, I would like to see actual classes when one obtains a permit. Make 2 things mandatory as well. For once CPR course, and some course on the responsible handling of firearms.

This whole post assumes that a safe is the only way to responsibly store weapons, that everyone who has a weapon also has kids, that those kids couldn't possibly be responsible enough to handle those firearms in a safe way.

In other words, you're assuming the worst in every situation.

Enforcing a mandatory safe law is like enforcing background checks on private citizens. You're literally asking an already hard pressed police force with dwindling budgets to do more with less.

I mean, don't you think there's a reason 99% of the background checks that are failed by felons go without being investigated/prosecuted?

[Mayhem]

Yes, exactly.

It's amazing to me how people allow their thinking to become so distorted they can't read what I post and understand it for what it is. 'He's not saying things we agree with, so he must be just throwing out nonsense. We better just hand wave it away, making it okay to complete ignore him so we can continue our anti gun agenda.'

we can read very well, you just aren´t able to write what you´re trying to say

unfortunately a firearm/gun remains a weapon, by definition, now we all know by now you don´t care much for definitions, and i´m actually impressed you made it so far in life without caring much for definitions of words

and i´m truly glad law´s don´t work the way your brain works, because they rely on definitions and don´t acount for what people think it should be called

up next, a car isn´t always a vehicle

[Eroginous]

we can read very well, you just aren´t able to write what you´re trying to say

I wrote exactly what I was trying to say, PhaelixWW understood me. I can't imagine what kept the rest of you.

up next, a car isn´t always a vehicle

It isn't.

[Mayhem]

I wrote exactly what I was trying to say, PhaelixWW understood me. I can't imagine what kept the rest of you.



It isn't.

did you read his answer? he thinks what you´re trying to say is that something should be defined by how it is commonly used

not that it is... see the difference? judges would have a hard time if they couldn´t follow definitions of things how they are originally designed

"you´re not allowed to own weapons"
"but sir, they aren´t weapons, look, they were just hanging on the wall"

[NYC17]

Yes, exactly.

It's amazing to me how people allow their thinking to become so distorted they can't read what I post and understand it for what it is. 'He's not saying things we agree with, so he must be just throwing out nonsense. We better just hand wave it away, making it okay to complete ignore him so we can continue our anti gun agenda.'

No one here seems to be misinterpreting what you have to say. It's not particularly nuanced, nor is it a mystery. How a weapon is used does not change it from being a weapon. If you use a weapon for sportsmanship, you're using a weapon for sportsmanship. Whether that weapon lies dormant on a wall, in the trunk of a car, or in a locked safe doesn't change it from being a weapon.

Your argument is lost. So, one more time; you have offered nothing to support your argument other than your opinion and your dismissal of dictionaries and their authority. That doesn't cut it. It's just that simple.