Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[Rukentuts]

A right given to the people by the government. It's not some infallible truth written in stone by God himself. That's the problem with the Second Amendment. It makes it so incredibly difficult to pass legislation that makes sense. Like keeping firearms out of the hands of those that have a mental illness.

"It's a right" is such a shitty argument when facts point that it's detrimental. And plugging one's ears and going "but it's a right!" doesn't change facts based on scientific conclusion.

[lockedout]

A right given to the people by the government

Wow I don't even know what to say about this comment. Are you serious?

[TZucchini]

Wow I don't even know what to say about this comment. Are you serious?

Am I serious about what? Are you under the impression that someone else created the second amendment?

[lockedout]

Am I serious about what? Are you under the impression that someone else created the second amendment?

The government gives us rights?

[TZucchini]

The government gives us rights?

No. Rights just exist in thin air, and the government protects them!


Of course the government gives us rights. How do you think we obtain them?

[Tinykong]

Oh my god, no ones moving the goalposts. Put it back in your pants.

A mental illness, by definition, effects your ability to function in day to day activities. I suppose if you researched the subject a bit, you'd understand that.

Dyslexia isn't a mental illness.......

I think the person with the challenge understanding the definition of mental illness is yourself. Go read the DSM definition.

You know. I thought that removing firearms from individuals diagnosed with a mental illness was something we could all get behind. I guess not. /shrug

If you want to constrain that "mental illness" to actually have some intelligently selected illnesses, sure. If you want to broadly say anyone with a "mental illness" can't have firearms, that's as vague as the typical "assault weapon" nonsense.

How exactly am I making up definitions? The National Alliance on Mental Illness defines "mental illness" as "a medical condition that disrupts a person's thinking, feeling, mood, ability to relate to others and daily functioning."

Hmmm. Exactly as I defined it! So please, tell me more about how I'm making up definitions.

And according to the DSM, dyslexia and annorexia are mental illnesses. Your application of the term is too broad when trying to use it as a condition to restrict firearms.

[Naxere]

No. Rights just exist in thin air, and the government protects them!


Of course the government gives us rights. How do you think we obtain them?

How about the pursuit of life, liberty, and happiness?

[lockedout]

Of course the government gives us rights. How do you think we obtain them?

The government doesn't give us rights, you might want to do some research and come back.

[TZucchini]

I think the person with the challenge understanding the definition of mental illness is yourself. Go read the DSM definition.

Instead of telling me to "go read things," provide some citations. Because I've already quoted the definition of mental illness from the DSM.

Mental illness/disorder is very specifically (not broadly) defined by the DSM as "a syndrome characterized by clinically significant disturbance in an individual's cognition, emotion regulation, or behavior that reflects a dysfunction in the psychological, biological, or developmental processes underlying mental functioning. Mental disorders are usually associated with significant distress in social, occupational, or other important activities."

If you want to constrain that "mental illness" to actually have some intelligently selected illnesses, sure. If you want to broadly say anyone with a "mental illness" can't have firearms, that's as vague as the typical "assault weapon" nonsense.

It's not vague. Mental illness/disorder has a very specific definition.

And according to the DSM, dyslexia and annorexia are mental illnesses. Your application of the term is too broad when trying to use it as a condition to restrict firearms.

Just as in DSM-IV, dyslexia will be included in the descriptive text of specific learning disorder.

[Rukentuts]

How about the pursuit of life, liberty, and happiness?

I find it kinda funny that those "inalienable rights" aren't mentioned in a legally-binding document after they were called out in the Declaration.

[TZucchini]

The government doesn't give us rights, you might want to do some research and come back.

Who gives us rights?

[lockedout]

John Adams, "You have rights antecedent to all earthly governments: rights that cannot be repealed or restrained by human laws; rights derived from the Great Legislator of the universe."

Frederick Bastiat, "Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place."

Justice William J. Brennan, "The Framers of the Bill of Rights did not purport to "create" rights. Rather they designed the Bill of Rights to prohibit our Government from infringing rights and liberties presumed to be preexisting."

Benjamin Franklin, "Freedom is not a gift bestowed upon us by other men, but a right that belongs to us by the laws of God and nature."

If you think the government grants us rights try moving to a country where that actually happens and let us know.

[TZucchini]

How about the pursuit of life, liberty, and happiness?

You mean the phrase that was written in the Declaration of Independence? The document adopted by our government?

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John Adams, "You have rights antecedent to all earthly governments: rights that cannot be repealed or restrained by human laws; rights derived from the Great Legislator of the universe."

Frederick Bastiat, "Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place."

Justice William J. Brennan, "The Framers of the Bill of Rights did not purport to "create" rights. Rather they designed the Bill of Rights to prohibit our Government from infringing rights and liberties presumed to be preexisting."

Benjamin Franklin, "Freedom is not a gift bestowed upon us by other men, but a right that belongs to us by the laws of God and nature."

Who gives us rights? You didn't answer the question.

[lockedout]

Who gives us rights?

Try reading up on it, kinda disappointed it isn't common sense to people.

[Tinykong]

Instead of telling me to "go read things," provide some citations. Because I've already quoted the definition of mental illness from the DSM.

Mental illness/disorder is very specifically (not broadly) defined by the DSM as "a syndrome characterized by clinically significant disturbance in an individual's cognition, emotion regulation, or behavior that reflects a dysfunction in the psychological, biological, or developmental processes underlying mental functioning. Mental disorders are usually associated with significant distress in social, occupational, or other important activities."

It's not vague. Mental illness/disorder has a very specific definition.

Just as in DSM-IV, dyslexia will be included in the descriptive text of specific learning disorder.

The term isn't vague, your application of it here is vague.

Dyslexia is a mental illness. So is annorexia. So is insomnia.

Read the definition you provided. It encompasses everything that reflects a dysfunction of psychological, biological or developmental processes underlying mental functioning.

You want to keep guns away from people who are unstable/violent, and are using the term "mental illness" to define that group of people, which includes people who shouldn't be.

[lockedout]

Who gives us rights? You didn't answer the question.

I'm sorry, I was just kidding you're right Obama grants us all our rights.

[Naxere]

So human beings have zero rights, except what the government provides us. Good to know.

[petej0]

Who gives us rights?

We are born with them.

[lockedout]

So human beings have zero rights, except what the government provides us. Good to know.

People actually believe this is the scary part.

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We are born with them.

Should have left him guessing.

[TZucchini]

I'm sorry, I was just kidding you're right Obama grants us all our rights.

Why are you refusing the answer the question? I'll ask you a third time. Who gives us our rights?

If you can't answer the question, feel free to bring up Obama again.

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We are born with them.

That makes absolutely zero sense, since rights are intangible.

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So human beings have zero rights, except what the government provides us. Good to know.

Who gives us our rights?

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The term isn't vague, your application of it here is vague.

Dyslexia is a mental illness. So is annorexia. So is insomnia.

Read the definition you provided. It encompasses everything that reflects a dysfunction of psychological, biological or developmental processes underlying mental functioning.

You want to keep guns away from people who are unstable/violent, and are using the term "mental illness" to define that group of people, which includes people who shouldn't be.

You haven't provided evidence for a single claim you've made. Because you can't. Because you're wrong.

Meanwhile, I've cited directly from the DSM, and you're just handwaving.