Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[Rukentuts]

Sure, because the only time firearms save a life is when they're used to kill the other person. /sarcasm

Sure, let's bring assaults into it then, and how over half of all "defensive uses" are really crimes themselves. No matter how you look at it, it's a loss.

[THE Bigzoman]

Sure, let's bring assaults into it then, and how over half of all "defensive uses" are really crimes themselves. No matter how you look at it, it's a loss.

What crimes do these defensive usages fall into?

[Rukentuts]

What crimes do these defensive usages fall into?

Depends on the case and jurisdiction. In Minnesota, anything ranging from making Terroristic Threats to Assault with a Deadly Weapon.

[Annoying]

Looks like another shooting, this time at a Renold's highschool near Portland, Oregon.

Man, this is depressin'

You're entitled to your guns, but please keep them away from your kids :l

Arggh. Well, someone's gotta get their time on CNN. Let's see how much the next news week is dedicated to this. I really, really hope that this remains local, but it won't. *sigh*.

[gioco]

Looks like another shooting, this time at a Renold's highschool near Portland, Oregon.

Man, this is depressin'

You're entitled to your guns, but please keep them away from your kids :l

My guns are locked in a gun safe. The only people who have the combination are Me, My parents, and a copy of it in a safe deposit box at the bank.
My kids do not have access to my firearms unless i take them to the range, or hunting.

[Rukentuts]

Arggh. Well, someone's gotta get their time on CNN. Let's see how much the next news week is dedicated to this.

Not much, the Malaysian airliner is still missing.

[Annoying]

Looks like another shooting, this time at a Renold's highschool near Portland, Oregon.

Man, this is depressin'

You're entitled to your guns, but please keep them away from your kids :l

Small question. Is this summer school? June seems heinously late to still be in session for a highschool.

[Tinykong]

Shootings make national headlines, but a multi-car pile up that kills more people never even leaves the local news market.

/shrug

[TZucchini]

Here's an interesting story from the Las Vegas shooting incident that occurred recently.

Apparently, the individual killed in Wal-Mart had a concealed carry permit, and was carrying his firearm at the time of being shot. Sounds like he approached the shooters with the intent of stopping their rampage. Unfortunately, he was shot and killed.

Law enforcement sources said Wilcox, who had a concealed weapons permit and carried a handgun, was ready to “end it” when Amanda Miller, who was behind Wilcox, shot and killed him.

Bystander Joseph Robert Wilcox, 31, who was carrying a concealed weapon inside the store, spotted Jerad Miller and told a friend he would confront him, according to authorities. As he neared Jerad, he was shot in the ribs by Amanda and later died, McMahill said. Source.

Hmmm. Interesting.

[Tinykong]

Here's an interesting story from the Las Vegas shooting incident that occurred recently.

Apparently, the individual killed in Wal-Mart had a concealed carry permit, and was carrying his firearm at the time of being shot. Sounds like he approached the shooters with the intent of stopping their rampage. Unfortunately, he was shot and killed.

Hmmm. Interesting.

Sucks that he was killed, but it just goes to show you: knowing how to use a firearm is not the same thing as being trained to engage and kill targets with one.

[TZucchini]

Sucks that he was killed, but it just goes to show you: knowing how to use a firearm is not the same thing as being trained to engage and kill targets with one.

And even if you're trained to engage and kill targets, you still need a huge pair of balls to actually pull it off. Dealing with the adrenaline, the changes in vision, heart rate. I can only imagine what that's like.

[Tinykong]

And even if you're trained to engage and kill targets, you still need a huge pair of balls to actually pull it off. Dealing with the adrenaline, the changes in vision, heart rate. I can only imagine what that's like.

Probably why the government spends millions of dollars training special forces personnel.

Not to be an arm chair commentator, but, witnesses said the guy probably figured there was just one shooter, and the wife was lagging behind, so when he confronted the husband, the wife got the drop on him and killed him.

[Kujako]

And even if you're trained to engage and kill targets, you still need a huge pair of balls to actually pull it off. Dealing with the adrenaline, the changes in vision, heart rate. I can only imagine what that's like.

Or you just need to be a sociopath.

[ugotownd]

Looks like another shooting, this time at a Renold's highschool near Portland, Oregon.

Man, this is depressin'

You're entitled to your guns, but please keep them away from your kids :l

Well lets see another gun free zone tell me why I'm not surprised. It happened the day before school ends seems like it could a personal issue between the accused an the victim. I mean who goes through the trouble to get a weapon illegally, go to school an kill one person unless you have an intended target. I'll bet he was bullied an all the other usual shit will come out but yet we will blame the gun.

- - - Updated - - -

Here's an interesting story from the Las Vegas shooting incident that occurred recently.

Apparently, the individual killed in Wal-Mart had a concealed carry permit, and was carrying his firearm at the time of being shot. Sounds like he approached the shooters with the intent of stopping their rampage. Unfortunately, he was shot and killed.

Hmmm. Interesting.

He engaged the one shooter not knowing the second was lagging behind. It has said in some reports that he fired at Jerad an possibly hit him before being ambushed from behind. I find it funny you sit here an say interesting cause a CCW died protecting himself an others cause you think it supports your data.

He at least tried unlike some of the people in this very thread would do or want to stop people from doing what he did.

[TZucchini]

He engaged the one shooter not knowing the second was lagging behind.

A perfect example as to why common citizens would be better off not engaging these individuals. They're not trained when to engage, or how to detect more than one shooter.

It has said in some reports that he fired at Jerad an possibly hit him before being ambushed from behind.

Interesting. I haven't heard that. Do you have a source?

I find it funny you sit here an say interesting cause a CCW died protecting himself an others cause you think it supports your data.

He at least tried unlike some of the people in this very thread would do or want to stop people from doing what he did.

It's not that it supports my data. It's that it shoots a giant gaping hole in the "if a good guy with a gun was there, he could have stopped this." I think people severely overestimate the ability of the common citizen to stop crime.

And I'm sure the fact that he "at least tried" is really comforting to his family and friends. These individuals weren't targeting civilians. They were targeting the government/police. It stands to reason that if he hadn't drawn his weapon, he'd be alive today, like every other individual in that Wal-Mart.

[Fugus]

The guy who was killed attempted to stop the shooter and did not know there was a second person. If he had, he would have probably reacted with that knowledge in mind. But he at least tried and if he had known there were 2 or there had in fact only been 1, this story would have gone much differently.

The story probably wouldn't have made national headlines as the count wouldn't have been as high and the thought of an armed citizen stopping it doesn't push an agenda as much when you are trying to strip guns away from the citizens.

Here is a quote I got from the Slashdot Website, pretty relevant here though.

"the US is safer now than ever before.

And not just a little. FAR safer. Violent crime is less than half what it was 20 years ago. And even less compared to 30 years ago.

The only "increasing" violence is news-media propaganda. Because chicks hatching on the farm does not sell news.

In fact, some recent studies have concluded that it was news media coverage, and not guns, which led to copy-cat "mass" shootings on college and other school campuses. (But even so, and even though they are splashed all over the news, THOSE are way down, too, compared to 2-3 decades ago.)

American does not have "increasing" internal violence. It has decreasing violence.

And during the same period, it is interesting to note, per-capita gun ownership in the U.S. has gone steadily up. And also during that same period, concealed-carry laws have become much more common. [postimg.org]

Statistics do not prove cause-and-effect. But a negative correlation can DISprove cause-and-effect.

We have more guns. (Per person!) According to our own government's statistics. Yet we have less violent crime. This is a direct, indisputable DISproof of the idea that "more guns equals more crime".

[Sources: U.S. DOJ, and for more recent years: U.S. Federal Bureau of Justice Statistics]"

[elezor]

the US is safer now than ever before.

And not just a little. FAR safer. Violent crime is less than half what it was 20 years ago. And even less compared to 30 years ago.

Because u gotta be shooted if you ll try, well, try to rob someone. Awesome problem solving, isnt it?
I really want to expand these "rules" to world political scene. Next time some country ll try to invade one of african regions - this country's president ll be shooted.

[Ghostpanther]

A perfect example as to why common citizens would be better off not engaging these individuals. They're not trained when to engage, or how to detect more than one shooter.



Interesting. I haven't heard that. Do you have a source?



It's not that it supports my data. It's that it shoots a giant gaping hole in the "if a good guy with a gun was there, he could have stopped this." I think people severely overestimate the ability of the common citizen to stop crime.

And I'm sure the fact that he "at least tried" is really comforting to his family and friends. These individuals weren't targeting civilians. They were targeting the government/police. It stands to reason that if he hadn't drawn his weapon, he'd be alive today, like every other individual in that Wal-Mart.

And I think you underestimate how a armed citizen can successfully stop a armed confrontation. Here is a example and it is only one of many cases. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWoLGC-n4i4 It did not make much national news because no one was killed. :P And while you are there, check out some of the other videos showing how armed CCP people have stopped some crimes.

[Tinykong]

A perfect example as to why common citizens would be better off not engaging these individuals. They're not trained when to engage, or how to detect more than one shooter.

It's not that it supports my data. It's that it shoots a giant gaping hole in the "if a good guy with a gun was there, he could have stopped this." I think people severely overestimate the ability of the common citizen to stop crime.

This post is a wild generalization. Plenty of people stop crimes everyday, stopping an active shooter team is probably one of the rarest kinds of crime.

[Eroginous]

A perfect example as to why common citizens would be better off not engaging these individuals. They're not trained when to engage, or how to detect more than one shooter.

You know what matters most between a civilian response to a shooter and a police officer response to a shooter? It's not training, experience, or even a job title. It's the willingness to put yourself in harms way to defend others. Some cops have that desire, some don't. There are situations where people have died because the responding cops refused to put their lives at risk to save the people in trouble. There are situations where people have been saved because a nearby civilian put their lives at risk to save the people in trouble.

This guy just happened to die after putting his life on the line to defend others (as is the potential outcome of risking your life). Why are you so determined to undermine the efforts of someone who gave their life to defend others?