View Poll Results: Do you Support Assault Weapons Ban?

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  • Yes

    2,819 60.29%
  • No

    1,857 39.71%
  1. #40781
    Quote Originally Posted by PRE 9-11 View Post
    That simply isn't true. There's plenty of evidence that suggests additional gun control measures would have a positive effect. These usually get handwaved by either: 1) Narrowing the scope of proof ("Well yes, there's a significant correlation, but you can't prove causality!") or 2) Suggesting (without evidence) that people will just ignore the new laws.
    Plenty of evidence? Where? You've repeatedly made this assertion that there's evidence supporting your viewpoint, when there's only opinion (studies aren't evidence).

    1. Narrowing the scope of proof? How? You have to stretch the opinions of a study just to even come up with this 'evidence...'

    2. Suggesting that people will ignore laws? Is this a new strawman? Will people ignore laws? Sure, it happens every day. What does that have to do with anything?

    If your arguments are being hand waived, it's because they lack substance, focus, and consist of opinions with little to no fact to support them.

    Lastly, 'positive impact' is an extremely vague and arbitrary term to use in this discussion. It's similar to your usage of the term 'net loss.' Both have literally nothing to do with anything except to make your arguments seem reasonable when they aren't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lockedout
    Things that never happen.
    Also net losses to society!

  2. #40782
    Legendary! TZucchini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinykong View Post
    You brought up a legislative measure, let's see you defend it. Considering you claimed there were "literally hundreds" then you ought to be able to produce one for a specific example you bring up.
    Do you even know what you're asking for anymore? This is embarrassing...

    You asked for studies that suggest gun control legislation would have an impact homicides/suicides/injury. I supplied you with seven.

    You then complained that they didn't measure current existing Federal laws. I explained to you that it's impossible to measure the results of a law that hasn't been passed. You seemed to agree. I also explained that we can use State laws as a measuring stick as to whether or not a Federal law, with the exact same content, would be successful. I explained that this is a common practice, used regularly in the legislative process. I even provided an example. You then incorrectly claimed a false equivalency.

    Now you're back to asking for proof of legislative success, even though I've already provided you with seven examples. If you're going to handwave those, then surely you'll handwave anything further. I've met my burden of proof. The ball is in your court.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Eroginous View Post
    Plenty of evidence? Where? You've repeatedly made this assertion that there's evidence supporting your viewpoint, when there's only opinion (studies aren't evidence).
    Scientific studies published in peer reviewed journals aren't evidence? They're opinions?

    Bahahahaha. If anyone from the pro-gun camp wonders why we throw around the term 'science-denier', this is exhibit A.
    Eat yo vegetables

  3. #40783
    I always see this thread, growing and wonder why there isn't a similar thread about poison control or alcohol control which kill more people...

    In 2013 there were 31,616 deaths involving guns (20,666 were suicides), 10,950 of those were homicides, If I recall that number is also falling, the number also includes gang homicides which I'd love to see what the total would be if gang homicides were excluded
    In 2013 there were 32,719 motor vehicle deaths, 10,076 of those were due to alcohol
    In 2010 (can't find 2013) there were 42,917 deaths attributed to poison


    But when you get down to percentages I guess all 3 of those only killed about 0.035% of the population

  4. #40784
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tylenol View Post
    I always see this thread, growing and wonder why there isn't a similar thread about poison control or alcohol control which kill more people...

    In 2013 there were 31,616 deaths involving guns (20,666 were suicides), 10,950 of those were homicides, If I recall that number is also falling, the number also includes gang homicides which I'd love to see what the total would be if gang homicides were excluded
    In 2013 there were 32,719 motor vehicle deaths, 10,076 of those were due to alcohol
    In 2010 (can't find 2013) there were 42,917 deaths attributed to poison


    But when you get down to percentages I guess all 3 of those only killed about 0.035% of the population
    i don´t know man, but you probably have the power to open up threads with topics you think need to be discussed
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before. A bunch of times actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

  5. #40785
    Quote Originally Posted by tylenol View Post
    I always see this thread, growing and wonder why there isn't a similar thread about poison control or alcohol control which kill more people...
    Because toxic chemicals aren't subject matter that also relates to the public's ability to resist authoritarian policy. Ergo, there's nobody that needs the fig leaf of public safety with which to lobby for banning them.

    Inb4 blank assertion that Republicans are more authoritarian than Democrats.

  6. #40786
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormdash View Post
    Because toxic chemicals aren't subject matter that also relates to the public's ability to resist authoritarian policy. Ergo, there's nobody that needs the fig leaf of public safety with which to lobby for banning them.

    Inb4 blank assertion that Republicans are more authoritarian than Democrats.
    Guess what, neither is the second amendment anymore. Actual scholars acknowledge it, why can't you?

  7. #40787
    Quote Originally Posted by PRE 9-11 View Post
    Do you even know what you're asking for anymore? This is embarrassing...

    You asked for studies that suggest gun control legislation would have an impact homicides/suicides/injury. I supplied you with seven.

    You then complained that they didn't measure current existing Federal laws. I explained to you that it's impossible to measure the results of a law that hasn't been passed. You seemed to agree. I also explained that we can use State laws as a measuring stick as to whether or not a Federal law, with the exact same content, would be successful. I explained that this is a common practice, used regularly in the legislative process. I even provided an example. You then incorrectly claimed a false equivalency.

    Now you're back to asking for proof of legislative success, even though I've already provided you with seven examples. If you're going to handwave those, then surely you'll handwave anything further. I've met my burden of proof. The ball is in your court.
    Wrong again.

    I asked you for studies that are relevant to the discussion. Citing studies that were conducted in other countries is just ridiculous.

    You can't prove the claims you're making, you keep fallaciously expanding the results to encompass whatever you want. At this point, it's just pathetic and sad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Djalil View Post
    I am ACTUALLY ASKING for them to ban me and relieve me from the misery of this thread.

  8. #40788
    Remember what happen in Katrina?

  9. #40789
    The Unstoppable Force Ghostpanther's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    i don´t know man, but you probably have the power to open up threads with topics you think need to be discussed
    His points in regards to this gun control thread is on topic. He is referring to how some will cry out for more gun control, but not say much about other items which are killing more than people who misuse guns are.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by montsora View Post
    Remember what happen in Katrina?
    What? You referring to the looting which took place? After hurricane Katrina?

  10. #40790
    Quote Originally Posted by tylenol View Post
    I always see this thread, growing and wonder why there isn't a similar thread about poison control or alcohol control which kill more people...
    According to the anti gunners those things are just as important. Don't you see the other 2k page threads about those things as well....

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by PRE 9-11 View Post
    Scientific studies published in peer reviewed journals aren't evidence? They're opinions?

    Bahahahaha. If anyone from the pro-gun camp wonders why we throw around the term 'science-denier', this is exhibit A.
    According to the scientists they are opinions not 100% proof. To you they are 100% proof. See the problem?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    Guess what, neither is the second amendment anymore. Actual scholars acknowledge it, why can't you?
    Scholars? You mean people living a sheltered life or that happen to be able to hire armed guards. Lets not get confused.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by montsora View Post
    Remember what happen in Katrina?
    Yep they went door to door trying to confiscate guns.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    His points in regards to this gun control thread is on topic. He is referring to how some will cry out for more gun control, but not say much about other items which are killing more than people who misuse guns are.

    - - - Updated - - -



    What? You referring to the looting which took place? After hurricane Katrina?
    The looting of civilians guns by police under orders from the governor.



    They broke like every constitutional amendment.
    Last edited by lockedout; 2015-01-31 at 06:32 PM.
    Socialism is the only economic system that requires billionaires to exist.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PRE 9-11 View Post
    This term isn't far off, though it would need the word "scientific" in front of it.
    Quote Originally Posted by PRE 9-11 View Post
    Accessibility, ownership, availability; these are all essentially the same thing.

  11. #40791
    Quote Originally Posted by PRE 9-11 View Post
    "Firearms correlate with homicide (what I'm saying)," is not the same thing as "homicide correlates with firearms (what you're saying)."

    I'd explain this to you further, but like I said, you've already shown yourself to be scientifically illiterate.

    Lol. Firearms also correlate with pollution and littering by this logic then. What point are you making? Ropes correlate with hanging. Penises correlate with rape by that logic as well. You can stretch the correlation argument only so far before it just becomes flat ass silly.

  12. #40792
    PRE 9-11 has stopped making points. He's just Kermit flailing around linking irrelevant studies and crying about science denial when people point out how absurd it is to claim a study from another country has anything to do with the United States.
    Quote Originally Posted by Djalil View Post
    I am ACTUALLY ASKING for them to ban me and relieve me from the misery of this thread.

  13. #40793
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinykong View Post
    PRE 9-11 has stopped making points. He's just Kermit flailing around linking irrelevant studies and crying about science denial when people point out how absurd it is to claim a study from another country has anything to do with the United States.
    “Saying that scientists ‘believe’ their results suggests, falsely, that their acceptance is not based on evidence, but is based somehow on faith.”
    Socialism is the only economic system that requires billionaires to exist.
    https://i.redditmedia.com/P8UE8DAGeB...c1ef120404fdbd
    Quote Originally Posted by PRE 9-11 View Post
    This term isn't far off, though it would need the word "scientific" in front of it.
    Quote Originally Posted by PRE 9-11 View Post
    Accessibility, ownership, availability; these are all essentially the same thing.

  14. #40794
    Quote Originally Posted by PRE 9-11
    Scientific studies published in peer reviewed journals aren't evidence? They're opinions?
    You have a bad habit of loading up your statements with trigger words that don't really mean what you want them to mean in the context you're using them. A study is a study. Science is science. A study is no more or less scientific than anything else. Putting the word 'scientific' in front of the word 'study' is a dishonest way to have a discussion. It implies that studies are somehow infallible, that anyone who doesn't agree with them is ignorant. It feeds into your tactic of calling people 'science deniers.'

    Studies are based on data, some of which may or may not be evidence. Studies themselves are not evidence. They are the resulting opinion of the interpreted data by those who conducted the study. That's why you can have a study done on identical data by different parties, and arrive at different conclusions. So please, stop treating studies as gospel. It's ignorant as fuck and makes you look foolish at best.

    Quote Originally Posted by PRE 9-11
    Bahahahaha. If anyone from the pro-gun camp wonders why we throw around the term 'science-denier', this is exhibit A.
    No one wonders why you throw around the term 'science-denier.' We know that it's your way of shrugging off anyone who disagrees with the opinions of your studies. The opinions you hold as gospel fact and continue to insist are evidence that should be taken to heart by policy makers and turned into more strict gun control laws.

    No, we understand you perfectly. Probably better than you understand yourself. Maybe it's time to drop the bullshit attitude, huh?

  15. #40795
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    His points in regards to this gun control thread is on topic. He is referring to how some will cry out for more gun control, but not say much about other items which are killing more than people who misuse guns are.
    how is that on topic?
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before. A bunch of times actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

  16. #40796
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    how is that on topic?
    The reason people are anti gun is to "save lives" but they don't care about other things that will "save lives" because they indulge in those activities. It's called being a hypocrite.
    Socialism is the only economic system that requires billionaires to exist.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PRE 9-11 View Post
    This term isn't far off, though it would need the word "scientific" in front of it.
    Quote Originally Posted by PRE 9-11 View Post
    Accessibility, ownership, availability; these are all essentially the same thing.

  17. #40797
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lockedout View Post
    The reason people are anti gun is to "save lives" but they don't care about other things that will "save lives" because they indulge in those activities. It's called being a hypocrite.
    so you´re saying people that are "anti gun" have to open up threads for every topic that is in some way ore another is about saving lives?

    right, right, you really should read up on hypocrite, you don´t know what that word means, you´re not even close to knowing

    wait, i think i get your line of thought, if people are for stricter gun laws to get guns out of the hands of criminals (saving lives) they then have to be against cars, knifes, baseball bats, stairways, bicycles, cigarettes and so on, because all those things are costing lives and are therefor totally comparable to firearms



    so you´re in favor of all those things regardless the circumstances, obviously
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before. A bunch of times actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

  18. #40798
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    how is that on topic?
    The topic of the thread is gun control. Someone pointing out the parallels between gun control, and other non-issues such as 'fast food control' or 'alcohol control' is perfectly on topic.

    You don't like it either because you don't see the point or you don't like the point it raises against the arguments you have against guns.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem
    right, right, you really should read up on hypocrite, you don´t know what that word means, you´re not even close to knowing
    We've already discussed the language disconnect between native english speakers and those who speak english as a second language. Someone who makes a big deal about gun control because of how many people die from guns is definitely a hypocrite for not making a big deal about how many people die from other causes (especially when those other causes are more significant than guns as a cause of death).

  19. #40799
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eroginous View Post
    The topic of the thread is gun control. Someone pointing out the parallels between gun control, and other non-issues such as 'fast food control' or 'alcohol control' is perfectly on topic.

    You don't like it either because you don't see the point or you don't like the point it raises against the arguments you have against guns.
    changing to other topics is being on topic, of course

    Quote Originally Posted by Eroginous View Post
    We've already discussed the language disconnect between native english speakers and those who speak english as a second language. Someone who makes a big deal about gun control because of how many people die from guns is definitely a hypocrite for not making a big deal about how many people die from other causes (especially when those other causes are more significant than guns as a cause of death).
    this probably makes a hell of a lot of sense in your little universe, but just think about this, what if people think that the other issues are being taken on in a reasonable way? i know this shatters your view of gun control advocates just wanting to cage people in to keep them save

    here we have 200 people dying from cars/alcohol/fast food and here we have 200 people dying from guns and because it´s 200 people everytime the topics are comparable, that´s not how it works
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before. A bunch of times actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

  20. #40800
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    this probably makes a hell of a lot of sense in your little universe, but just think about this, what if people think that the other issues are being taken on in a reasonable way? i know this shatters your view of gun control advocates just wanting to cage people in to keep them save
    We get it.

    You're scared and you want something done about it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Djalil View Post
    I am ACTUALLY ASKING for them to ban me and relieve me from the misery of this thread.

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