Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[Saucexorzski]

I'm on an anonymous video-game forum. And even if I wasn't, there's no reason to lie about my motivations. The amount of paranoia you guys feel is unsettling.

Lol you sure are one to talk about paranoia Mr repeal the 2nd amendment.

[TZucchini]

Have you considered that people are a bit more weary these days of someone calling them asking if they have guns?

What evidence do you have to suggest that people are less likely to tell the truth in an anonymous survey "these days".

What about the possibility that more people are willing to lie these days and say that they do own a firearm when they actually do not? Could that not also exist?

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Lol you sure are one to talk about paranoia Mr repeal the 2nd amendment.

What does repealing the 2nd Amendment have to do with paranoia? Again, it's directly related to the relationship between permissive firearm laws and high rates of firearm death.

[TwoNineMarine]

What evidence do you have to suggest that people are less likely to tell the truth in an anonymous survey "these days".

What about the possibility that more people are willing to lie these days and say that they do own a firearm when they actually do not? Could that not also exist?

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What does repealing the 2nd Amendment have to do with paranoia? Again, it's directly related to the relationship between permissive firearm laws and high rates of firearm death.

Absolutely it could exist. Not doubting that. Although that makes little sense to me though.

And I saw a study recently stating that people in the US now a days trust their government much less then they did like 50 years ago. If I can find the study I'll link it.

So if someone doesn't quite trust their government why would they trust a random person who is calling asking about weapons?

[Mayhem]

Wasn't directly at you more so a jumping off from the point you made. It was in support of the idea behind your statement.

The idea behind my statement, that people calling the US gun culture has nothing to do with how successful gun control is?

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I can't recall who on here it was. It was a while back.

I've also seen it in a lot of other places. Hell I know a guy (who luckily doesn't have kids) who said that not too long ago.

Well there a loons on both ends of the street.

[TwoNineMarine]

@Pre

Found it.

This was done by the Pew Research folk which I know you like:

http://www.people-press.org/2014/11/...in-government/

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The idea behind my statement, that people calling the US gun culture has nothing to do with how successful gun control is?

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Well there a loons on both ends of the street.

That there are. It stunned me though.

I totally understand if you aren't comfortable with firearms because you just don't like them or have never used one. But to honestly not want to defend yourself in that kind of situation is foreign to me. I can't grasp it. And I'm really trying.

[TZucchini]

And I saw a study recently stating that people in the US now a days trust their government much less then they did like 50 years ago. If I can find the study I'll link it.

So if someone doesn't quite trust their government why would they trust a random person who is calling asking about weapons?

The government isn't conducting the General Social Survey. It's an independent organization. So your point is moot.

And they're not calling. Theses are face to face interviews. It's one of the most exhaustive social surveys in this country.

[Mayhem]

That there are. It stunned me though.

I totally understand if you aren't comfortable with firearms because you just don't like them or have never used one. But to honestly not want to defend yourself in that kind of situation is foreign to me. I can't grasp it. And I'm really trying.

That´s pretty fucked up. I mean i would defend my family, my friends, depending on the situation i would even defend a stranger. I sincerely don´t care if one likes guns or doesn´t. I´m really more interested in finding the solution to the problem of guns in the wrong hands.

[TwoNineMarine]

That´s pretty fucked up. I mean i would defend my family, my friends, depending on the situation i would even defend a stranger. I sincerely don´t care if one likes guns or doesn´t. I´m really more interested in finding the solution to the problem of guns in the wrong hands.

It really is fucked up. I wish I could understand the mentality.

The government isn't conducting the General Social Survey. It's an independent organization. So your point is moot.

And they're not calling. Theses are face to face interviews. It's one of the most exhaustive social surveys in this country.

You're missing the point. I know the Pew folks aren't the government.

I'm not that dense lol

I'm saying that if people don't trust their government (because some consider it their own personal Lord and Savior) then why would they want to tell anyone anything private (such as guns)?

Idk. Obviously it makes sense to you and your undying trust in the government. But it doesn't to me.

[petej0]

Again, waiting periods are pointless if the background check system is set up correctly and enforced. Also, there's that word "infringed". I realize that a lot of people think that the Second is antiquated, etc, but their opinions on the rights of others is utterly irrelevant. As far as a buy-back program goes, that implies a register (bad).

A waiting period allows time for any new data entered into the background check system to appear. I realize that a 30 day period is a bit much, but I am willing to go with a 5 day wait period for a first time purchase.

I think that's a but much. But you could mix it with the "wait period" idea. If you're not licensed for a specific class of weapon, you have to wait <n> days for each purchase.

I think you should have some training on a firearm before you are allowed to purchase one.

Why would an employer notify the background system that they fired someone and that person might be upset? Termination of employment is not a valid reason to deny someone's rights.

Not all fired employees would have to be reported, just employees that employers feel could be a potential problem. The news reporter would have been a good candidate. You are not denying someones rights for ever, just adding a wait period for weapons and maybe even ammo. It could be 5 day period, 15 day period etc..

[TZucchini]

You're missing the point. I know the Pew folks aren't the government.

No. You're missing the point. The people at the General Social Survey aren't the government. You know, the ones actually conducting the interviews.

You can't use a poll that says "people don't trust governmental organizations", and then conclude that "therefore they also don't trust non-governmental organizations." That makes no sense.

It's like saying "Here's a poll that says people don't like McDonalds, therefore I conclude that they also don't like the independently owned burger shop in town."

[Dystemper]

The anti gun groups have resorted to lying about gun ownership now to try and push a false narrative that the American people dont want guns any more. Despite record sales of firearms, despite record increases in Concealed carry permits, despite record setting numbers of attendees at Firearm safety classes. They use a flawed survey by the GSS. THis is why no one believes in the sincerity of the anti gun groups.

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http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...p-decline-u-s/


Given the current environment and concern about Government oversight, NSA spying, etc, I would suggest that if people are going to lie during a poll, they are more likely to say that they don’t own a gun when they do as opposed to saying that they do own a gun when they don’t. I would argue that the number of people who don’t fess up to owning a gun may very well result in a few percentage points of error in the poll.
The results of the GSS and Gallup polls differ by nine points, which could be related to their respective polling methods. The GSS conducts all polls in face to face interviews while Gallup uses phone based ones. People who might already be reluctant to admit to owning a gun at all are likely to be even more reluctant to do it in a face-to-face situation.
Gun sales are up and have been for a number of years. Certainly a good percentage of this increase is attributable to existing gun owners adding to their collections and the proposed anti-gun legislation in early 2013 certainly stoked the fires. On the other hand, the number of NRA instructors certified to teach the basic NRA classes has increased by nearly 66% over the past five years. Experienced gun owners adding to their collections generally don’t drive demand for introductory courses. New gun owners do.
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...p-decline-u-s/
So, where does that leave us? On the one hand, while the evidence that suggests gun ownership being on the rise is anecdotal, there is also a lack of unambiguous data to support the New York Times’ contention that ownership is on the decline. While the anti-gun crowd likes to spout the term, “Common Sense,” many of that persuasion repeatedly demonstrate a complete lack of it. Yes, there is one major poll that concludes that gun ownership is on the decline, but a second major poll sharply disagrees with that conclusion and the increases in NICS checks and number of certified NRA instructors certainly suggests a conclusion other than what the Times arrived at. So the next time, you hear someone talk about how gun owners are on the decline, you can show them how much of a low information voter they really are.

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In my area, there have been a number of brand new state of the art shooting ranges built, with several more on the way. New Gun shops opening all the times. Last year alone saw 1.7 million concealed carry permits issued, a increase of 15.4 % in one year alone.
http://crimeresearch.org/2015/07/new...er-of-permits/

The new report is available here. Part of the executive summary is shown here:

Since President Obama’s election the number of concealed handgun permits has soared, growing from 4.6 million in 2007 to over 12.8 million this year. Among the findings in our report:

The number of concealed handgun permits is increasing at an ever- increasing rate. Over the past year, 1.7 million additional new permits have been issued – a 15.4% increase in just one single year. This is the largest ever single-year increase in the number of concealed handgun permits.
5.2% of the total adult population has a permit.
Five states now have more than 10% of their adult population withconcealed handgun permits.
In ten states, a permit is no longer required to carry in all or virtually all ofthe state. This is a major reason why legal carrying handguns is growing somuch faster than the number of permits.
Since 2007, permits for women has increased by 270% and for men by 156%. Over that period, there was a 178% increase in total permits.
Some evidence suggests that permit holding by minorities is increasing more than twice as fast as for whites.

[TZucchini]

Snip

An internet blog, with no evidence at all, has a hunch that the numbers are incorrect, without presenting any evidence to the contrary.

Welp, I'm convinced.

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Lol. Now he's posting John Lott's blog. Keeps getting better.

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[Dystemper]

An internet blog, with no evidence at all, has a hunch that the numbers are incorrect, without presenting any evidence to the contrary.

Welp, I'm convinced.

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Lol. Now he's posting John Lott's blog. Keeps getting better.

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Disprove them. Your ignorance is self inflicted.

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http://washington.cbslocal.com/2014/07/10/report-number-of-concealed-carry-permits-surges-as-violent-crime-rate-drops/

[TZucchini]

Disprove them. Your ignorance is self inflicted.

Right. My ignorance.

I'm citing independent sources, while you're busy citing John Lott and "thetruthaboutguns.com"

You'v already made up your mind.

[Dystemper]

Show the proof that it was discredited.

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http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887323689204578573763575086702

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Since July 1 of last year, Florida has granted more than 173,000 new concealed-carry permits, up 17% from the year before and twice as many as five years ago, for a total of about 1.09 million permits in the state.

Ohio, meanwhile, is on pace to nearly double last year's total of 65,000 new permits, which would be nearly three times as many as in 2007. And Oklahoma, Tennessee, Wyoming and Nebraska all have nearly matched or surpassed last year's totals with half of 2013 still to go.

A dozen states surveyed for this article, including Texas, Utah and Wisconsin, issued 537,000 permits last year, an 18% increase compared with a year prior and more than double the number issued in 2007. Early figures for 2013 show many states are on pace for their biggest year ever.

About eight million Americans had concealed-carry permits as of last year, the Government Accountability Office said in what it called a conservative estimate.

"I suppose it's the same reason people are reporting gun sales are up and ammunition sales are up," said Ohio Attorney General Mike DeWine, referring to concern among gun owners about the recent push for gun control. "It's nothing unique in Ohio.…It seems to be a consistent trend across the board."

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A Gallup poll from Nov. 2014 found that 63 percent of Americans believe having a gun in their home makes it safer, which has nearly doubled from 35 percent in 2000.

A Pew Research poll from Dec. 2014 also found that 52 percent of Americans believe it is more important to protect “the right of Americans to own guns,” while 46 percent believe it is more important to control gun ownership, marking the first time in more than two decades that support for gun rights has surpassed support for gun control.

[TZucchini]

Show the proof that it was discredited.

There's literally nothing to discredit. You have no evidence.

I'm posting links about firearm ownership. You're posting links about concealed carry licenses. It's like we're having two different discussions.

Like I said. You've already made up your mind.

[Dystemper]

There's literally nothing to discredit. You have no evidence.

I'm posting links about firearm ownership. You're posting links about concealed carry licenses. It's like we're having two different discussions.

Like I said. You've already made up your mind.

So your just talking shit.

A Gallup poll from Nov. 2014 found that 63 percent of Americans believe having a gun in their home makes it safer, which has nearly doubled from 35 percent in 2000.

A Pew Research poll from Dec. 2014 also found that 52 percent of Americans believe it is more important to protect “the right of Americans to own guns,” while 46 percent believe it is more important to control gun ownership, marking the first time in more than two decades that support for gun rights has surpassed support for gun control.

Its , your just SOP for the anti gun control nutcases. Distort facts, evade the truth. Rinse repeat

[TZucchini]

So your just talking shit.

No, I'm citing actual evidence from independent sources in a cool and collect manner.

A Gallup poll from Nov. 2014 found that 63 percent of Americans believe having a gun in their home makes it safer, which has nearly doubled from 35 percent in 2000.

A Pew Research poll from Dec. 2014 also found that 52 percent of Americans believe it is more important to protect “the right of Americans to own guns,” while 46 percent believe it is more important to control gun ownership, marking the first time in more than two decades that support for gun rights has surpassed support for gun control.

What the fuck do either of those things have to do with the 50-year decline in firearm ownership? You're just rambling at this point. Bow out. You're done here.

[Dyfar]

I love it when people who know nothing about guns or America get all worked up. Very entertaining.

[Roxinius]

There's literally nothing to discredit. You have no evidence.

I'm posting links about firearm ownership. You're posting links about concealed carry licenses. It's like we're having two different discussions.

Like I said. You've already made up your mind.

so in your mind people are getting their CCWP and not getting a firearm do you see where you look foolish if permits are being issued in record numbers then im willing to be they out out buying a gun