View Poll Results: Do you Support Assault Weapons Ban?

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  • Yes

    2,818 60.28%
  • No

    1,857 39.72%
  1. #49541
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Zenkai hasn't been right about anything since the mid-90's.
    Cubby is an excellent poster.

    Damn! Wrong again!

  2. #49542
    Merely a Setback cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    Cubby is an excellent poster.

    Damn! Wrong again!
    Lol, ok - that was funny. I'm actually sitting here chuckling a little. Well played.

    On a side note - what do you think about LEO's being stationed in all public schools?
    No one is above the law!

  3. #49543
    Quote Originally Posted by Daelak View Post
    Repealing the 2nd amendment wouldn't get rid of guns.

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    Why would I take your position over dozens of supreme court justices? Is he just another Obama Killary Klinton Holdover change agent paid by Soros? Or was he indoctrinated by the liberal progressive public education cabal?
    I agree that amending or repealing 2A would net little desired result. There is a culture component to gun rights, and culture is not changed by a flipping the switch on a law.

    You might think that getting rid of all guns is the way to go. The problem is that many people just will not give them up. Its been a right for far to long now.

    If we did an outright ban on guns altogether, there would almost immediately be a black market for weapons - far, far worse than any gun show loophole.
    If you claim to support the second amendment, and have to qualify it with preconditions, you don't support the second amendment.

  4. #49544
    The Insane Daelak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by misterpuk View Post
    I agree that amending or repealing 2A would net little desired result. There is a culture component to gun rights, and culture is not changed by a flipping the switch on a law.

    You might think that getting rid of all guns is the way to go. The problem is that many people just will not give them up. Its been a right for far to long now.

    If we did an outright ban on guns altogether, there would almost immediately be a black market for weapons - far, far worse than any gun show loophole.
    I think that if it were repealed, gun lobby/rights groups would now have to argue the justification on their own, without the perverse interpretation a self described 'constitutional literalist' wrote about in Heller.

    No more hiding behind a 18th century militia protections amendment designed around the critical importance of a community's armory and the militia from whence it came. Just straight up political debate, with the appropriate regulatory bodies regulating production, sale, and use of the product.

  5. #49545
    There is one and only one public policy goal that requires repeal of the 2nd Amendment to proceed with -- ban and confiscation. Under the 2nd Amendment, regulations and restrictions of almost any stripe are a fight over the legitimacy of the government's goal and how limited the rule is to achieving that, but what is manifestly impossible under the 2nd Amendment is broad categorical bans and mandatory confiscation. So anybody arguing to repeal it is telling you what they mean to come after, the only thing they have no shot at while 2A stands.

  6. #49546
    I don't think the reasoning for the 2A is flawed. We have a president that has already suggested trying out that lifetime in office idea. Frankly, I can't wrap my head around why US leftists don't consider that ample reason to leave 2A the hell alone.

    Oh wait.....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHjmiOudzTk
    If you claim to support the second amendment, and have to qualify it with preconditions, you don't support the second amendment.

  7. #49547
    Quote Originally Posted by misterpuk View Post
    I don't think the reasoning for the 2A is flawed. We have a president that has already suggested trying out that lifetime in office idea. Frankly, I can't wrap my head around why US leftists don't consider that ample reason to leave 2A the hell alone.

    Oh wait.....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHjmiOudzTk
    I LOVE the comment of the old lady "what's the second amendment?" and the comments on the video are hilarious. So many people think he's threatening the president for no reason. They've never heard of a hypothetical I guess..
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrak View Post
    liberalism is a right wing idealogy.

  8. #49548
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    Yes, police are capable of making sound judgement decisions. :P The number of unjustified police killings is extremely low when compared to the number of police interactions with criminals and the public in general. They are just the type which gets the most media and outcry from the public when they are unjustified. Which in-itself is understandable, as long as the media and the public keep things in perspective.

    Allowing teachers who wish to be armed in class rooms is only a part of what could take place. School districts and parents who do not want such, can vote for other security measures. Metal detectors at entrances and armed security are other steps.
    first part: i know. But i am saying: wait until it happens the first time. Then people will think differently.

    And you talk about school shootings...those are just a small part of all the shooting incidents. So arming teacher will not help a lot for the other ones.

  9. #49549
    Quote Originally Posted by baskev View Post
    first part: i know. But i am saying: wait until it happens the first time. Then people will think differently.

    And you talk about school shootings...those are just a small part of all the shooting incidents. So arming teacher will not help a lot for the other ones.
    And cost tons of money... The best solution is to stop it before it happens. The problem is not many people can even identify the signs of a troubled person, or they can but don't do anything out of fear or just plain don't give a fuck.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrak View Post
    liberalism is a right wing idealogy.

  10. #49550
    Deleted
    https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a...sning-i-orebro

    A shooting tonight in Sweden again (was one yesterday too) and in Sweden we got strict gun laws that apperently doesnt do shit.

    Please correct me if Im wrong but doesnt Chicago got one of the (if not the one) most strict gun laws in the U.S and yet in Chicago is where they shoot eachother the most ?

    We all agree that the shootings need to stop, school,gangster, w/e -shooting needs to come to an end, but people need to face the facts also. To ban guns or have a strict gun control (like in Sweden) doesnt stop the shootings from happening.

  11. #49551
    Quote Originally Posted by urasim View Post
    And cost tons of money... The best solution is to stop it before it happens. The problem is not many people can even identify the signs of a troubled person, or they can but don't do anything out of fear or just plain don't give a fuck.
    And stopping a gun from going off in school the only option is more guns in school?

    Its never ever going to be a 100% no shootings solution. The best we can do is remove chunks of % of the 100%.
    And stopping school shootings will not stop all the other shootings kids die from.
    And there has been since talk of making it nation wide already 1 mishap concerning a gun in school.

  12. #49552
    The Unstoppable Force Ghostpanther's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Zenkai hasn't been right about anything since the mid-90's. But let's set that aside, because that little guy just isn't worth arguing over.

    However, we do have another issue that could very interesting. LEO's and/or Private Security for schools. I think that if we walk down this road, on a national policy level, we should consider only LEO's (Sworn Officers), rather than any kind of Private Security.

    The gun regulation peeps won't want this much at all - they want to just get rid of the guns, but unfortunately that won't happen - for a host of reasons. We could see better regulations, but no one is just getting rid of the guns. And the gun regulation crowd bristles at every turn with arming teachers - and I agree with them on this point.

    So let's put Police Officers in schools. What say?
    I do not agree about Zenkai.

    But I agree with your proposal. We should do that as a min. Along with adding metal detectors at the entrances and security cameras.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoranon View Post
    "Overturning that decision (Heller) via amendment would be simple". Yeah that guy is completely insane now. But at least he has stopped even pretending to care about what the constitution really says, as opposed to what he wants it to say.

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    There are already police officers in schools, in fact there was one at the most recent mass shooting. And he basically ran away.
    Yeah. He has lost his memory. Thinks amending the Constitution is simple. That was worth a good laugh. Of course he did not go into detail how that is done. :P

    I do not think there are in all schools and the one in Fla was outside, too far away from the entrance to stop the shooter. The most recent one in Maryland, the officer did confront the shooter just as he took his own life. If he had intentions of harming any more ( do not know for sure ) the officer would have stopped it.

    Meanwhile in Kentucky, the authorities, unlike the ones who failed to do their job in Fla, did theirs and may have prevented another shooting. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/03/27...olice-say.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiking88 View Post
    https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a...sning-i-orebro

    A shooting tonight in Sweden again (was one yesterday too) and in Sweden we got strict gun laws that apperently doesnt do shit.

    Please correct me if Im wrong but doesnt Chicago got one of the (if not the one) most strict gun laws in the U.S and yet in Chicago is where they shoot eachother the most ?

    We all agree that the shootings need to stop, school,gangster, w/e -shooting needs to come to an end, but people need to face the facts also. To ban guns or have a strict gun control (like in Sweden) doesnt stop the shootings from happening.
    Chicago itself does have strict gun laws, but it is only certain parts of the city and the suburbs and nearby towns which have the high shooting rates. One of the worse cities for gun death's is Baltimore, which also has strict gun laws. Vermont, has the least restrictive gun laws in the Nation and has for more than 40 years and was voted the safest State in the Union last year I think. With low firearm death rates right there with many European countries.
    " If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher.." - Abraham Lincoln
    The Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to - prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms..” - Samuel Adams

  13. #49553
    I am Murloc! Thwart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antiganon View Post
    I'm not asking for your trust.

    Convictions are public record. Opinions, even legal opinions by lawyers, are still just opinions - they have zero weight without case law to back them up.

    "This super smart guy said it so it totally must be pretty much true" is not a valid defense.

    Armed robbery and assault with a deadly weapon charges can be levied against people with prop guns, and there are convictions as such. It therefore makes sense to include prop guns in "defensive firearms use" statistics.

    Imaginary guns have no similar convictions, so it does not make sense to include "pretending to have a gun" in "defensive firearms use" statistics.

    Defensive use of dramatic talent maybe. Not firearms.
    Here are two cases of charges of armed robbery for using a finger just this year:
    https://regina.ctvnews.ca/police-say...ries-1.3811617

    http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/c...07228b4b1.html

    In Missouri First Degree Robbery is Armed Robbery https://www.lawserver.com/law/state/...i_laws_570-023

    And here's a case of a conviction and failed appeal even:
    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/03/30...onviction.html

  14. #49554
    The Unstoppable Force Ghostpanther's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thwart View Post
    Here are two cases of charges of armed robbery for using a finger just this year:
    https://regina.ctvnews.ca/police-say...ries-1.3811617

    http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/c...07228b4b1.html

    In Missouri First Degree Robbery is Armed Robbery https://www.lawserver.com/law/state/...i_laws_570-023

    And here's a case of a conviction and failed appeal even:
    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/03/30...onviction.html
    WoW! Thanks for the links. You did better researching than I did. Thanks. He may still refute it however, you know...reasons. :P
    " If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher.." - Abraham Lincoln
    The Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to - prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms..” - Samuel Adams

  15. #49555
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowpunkz View Post
    I know right?
    Why dont the media always tell how this kids get their guns? ITS SO IMPORTANT for the debate.
    It should be the first thing said by the media.
    Maybe people dont say where the guns come from because it would make the NRA look bad? Because this kids are getting their guns legally?

    I dont know, im just guessing...
    Or because we have the underage kids getting firearms from their parents house or some way similar. As for legally purchased, we can't ever predict the intentions of someone. We can put tons of restrictions in firearms, age limits, etc. It will never change the intent of an individual. What we can do is deter the intention by actually making it difficult to enter an educational facility during school hours. I've said it before, it is way too easy for a stranger to walk into a school building or classroom when nobody should really have any business coming or going.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MeHMeH View Post
    Yes! Anyone can just walk into any school, and this should be the norm!? I mean, not having children locked up and creating an open learning environment seems like good thing. Having security left and right with armed guards at school doesn't seem like a very child friendly place to me.



    This feels like something coming straight from 1984 to me, my schools have always been open and we never had any problems. I can understand that you want your children to be safe, but to lock them up or keep them out seems not great of an idea to me.
    Its not a hard lockdown like you're thinking. You have business there, hit the buzzer, you're on camera. Most campuses around me are closed campus anyways. Not really a reason to leave, except for some outdoor activities. The important thing is nobody should actually be coming inside during the middle of the day, especially some 24 year old, or a guy with a duffel bag.

    Quote Originally Posted by MeHMeH View Post
    I think a good place to start would be, "why aren't all firearms registered". I agree that it is a good question, but it is hard to answer when the majority of firearms aren't registered.
    If you're including gang related firearms, firearms belonging to felons, etc then of course that number is high. If we're talking about law abiding citizens having unregistered firearms, then they aren't exactly law abiding citizens are they? We can't force criminals to register something when we don't know where they're getting it from or that they even have it. Part of a much larger problem with trafficking in America.


    Quote Originally Posted by MeHMeH View Post
    I think a lot more of these shootings would be negated if there was some sort of ban on random people having firearms in their homes. I read it here all the time "guns are just tools" "guns do not kill people, people kill people" and all other randomness. But the fact of the matter is that guns make killing people a hell of a lot more easy, and when everyone has this kind of power things will generally not become more safe.
    Its more of people not securing their firearm properly, and the wrong person getting a hold of it. I said it before though, those people should be held accountable to the same standard that the person who used their weapon. However, massive murder sprees have never been limited to firearms. Its just an easy target. Someone went on a stabbing spree in a school some years back, no knife ban right? It goes back to intent. I could probably start neck stabbing people with a fork and get pretty far before being detained or killed. I suppose its just perspective. The counter argument is a fork is designed to eat with, a firearm is designed to kill. However, that goes back to these items being a tool and anything can create the same amount of devastation as a firearm if put in the wrong hands. It is easier to kill with a gun, I certainly won't deny that. But convenience isn't justification for more regulations. Its more convenient for me to shoot a burglar than to fight him. Just like its more convenient for a burglar to use a firearm than a knife (regardless of intent). Its a means of defense that we, while some consider it unfortunate, have the inherit right to allow ourselves to have.


    Quote Originally Posted by MeHMeH View Post
    Age doesn't really enter into any of this, it is the availability that is the problem. It doesn't matter that a 17 year old can't buy a gun, if your obsessed 17 year old can get access in any way to them, they will. They might get access to your gun safe, or to the one of gramps of from the people next door.
    I completely agree with the availability. But I don't believe its the availability at gun stores. Excluding gun shows which I think are a total joke anyways and really should be monitored more closely. I absolutely believe its those kids parents being ignorant with their firearms. Look at the most recent shooting. Turns out it was registered to his dad. Not a big surprise there. That wasn't the first case of that either. Again, stiff punishment for those who want to have that kind of negligence with a firearm. If you're that stupid to just leave your firearm in a shoebox in your closet, then you're too stupid to own one.

    [QUOTE=MeHMeH;49124964]Having gun ownership being a right is ultimately just a bad idea in our current civilization. Every gun owner is a "law abiding citizen" until they are not. Back in the 1980's there was a thing with the postal service https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Going_postal "going postal" was a big thing back then. People who where at their whits end and started to shoot up their work place, because they simply broke down. Every human being can be brought to such a place, and this can happen much faster then you can imagine. All that is needed is to push this persons right buttons and off they will go. [QUOTE]

    I'll disagree there. People forget that the 2nd Amendment literally protects the 1st Amendment. If you give up the right to defend yourself, or have that defense, then you have no defense moving forward in whichever form of government evolves from there. This could be something that happens 100 years down the road, either way it generally happens. Turkey, Russia, China, Germany, Cuba. Millions of lives lost. To me, its not worth giving up the one right that can protect you from your own government, while providing you self defense if needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by MeHMeH View Post
    You might be right in calling it the "easy way out", if we could all just live in peace then everyone could own a gun because no one would have any use for it in the first place. A firearm is a force multiplier, and when everyone has one you feel you need one too. I think that taking away the feeling that you need a gun in order to feel safe is the first step to take. Make society safe by default, that is the way to start gun control if you want to go do it "the hard way".
    At that point you'd just be taking them away from people you know who have them. That doesn't include the many many unregistered firearms you talked about earlier. Which is the main source of the problem. People like to use Australia as an example. They never really had major gun issues on a grand scale in the first place, but most importantly it is incredibly difficult to sneak anything onto their shores. Unlike America where not only are our borders extremely difficult to monitor (Canada side) due to vegetation, but we don't have the consistent numbers in the coast guard to double up by sea and account for the massive amount of traffic our trade lanes get. Cocaine submarines are still a thing somehow.

  16. #49556
    Quote Originally Posted by baskev View Post
    And stopping a gun from going off in school the only option is more guns in school?

    Its never ever going to be a 100% no shootings solution. The best we can do is remove chunks of % of the 100%.
    And stopping school shootings will not stop all the other shootings kids die from.
    And there has been since talk of making it nation wide already 1 mishap concerning a gun in school.
    Florida could have been prevented. They just needed to act and not ignore. The kids could have not bullied and ostracize him.

    What other solutions do you propose without restricting freedoms or outright denying rights?
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrak View Post
    liberalism is a right wing idealogy.

  17. #49557
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormdash View Post
    It is, by far and away, the most regulated of American civil rights already.
    It is the only one that give people the means to obtain efficient weapons. To act like it's regulated without cause is pretty dishonest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scathbais View Post
    When it comes to Constitutionally protected rights, less regulation is always better. I assume you wouldn't want to cede your protected rights to speech, free press, religion, due process, jury trial, etc, etc. Why should you want your rights to arm yourself infringed by the government?
    All my other rights don't make it easier for somebody to kill other people, and thus take away their rights. Mass shootings aren't made easier with free speech, press, religion, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moadar View Post
    People only seem to want to change one thing.
    I am pretty sure that's not true.

  18. #49558
    http://wnep.com/2018/03/22/superinte...hool-shooting/

    The superintendent of the Blue Mountain School District is in the spotlight after telling lawmakers in Harrisburg his students protect themselves against potential school shooters with rocks.

    “Every classroom has been equipped with a five-gallon bucket of river stone. If an armed intruder attempts to gain entrance into any of our classrooms, they will face a classroom full students armed with rocks and they will be stoned,” said Dr. David Helsel.
    He backtracked.
    There are no loopholes

  19. #49559
    Quote Originally Posted by urasim View Post
    Florida could have been prevented. They just needed to act and not ignore. The kids could have not bullied and ostracize him.

    What other solutions do you propose without restricting freedoms or outright denying rights?
    im sorry but the same people that shot up las vegas was behind the Florida shooting. these people are sponsored by the deep state. with people like David hogg to control the narrative on gun control after chaos. by design.

  20. #49560
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    I agree with your sentiments. However, one thing I have learned in my way-too-many-shouting-matches with gun rights' advocates, is that they have legitimate concerns about gun regulation, and to get it passed, we have to address their needs.

    Interestingly, I have found good suggestions for gun regulation from gun rights' advocates. Which I felt was both surprising and ironic.
    That is definitely true. Most people aren't lunatics and many do make good arguments regardless of where they stand on the issue. I understand a legit need for firearms in rural areas.

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