Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[Zan15]

Criminal negligence more like. Which by definition has nothing to do with responsible gun ownership.
As to the cop and dog one, it's pretty clear it was an accident - the dog did charge at him, of course that's no reason for firing that recklessly, but wasn't the topic about civilian ownership? We already know that many cops in the US have terrible training.

.

Sorry but the 2nd does not limit or discriminate between good responsible gun owners/ownership and bad ones.

Nonsense, the police would've magically teleported there and ended the threat, there was no need for the 70 yo guy to fire his weapon, his wife would've been fine. Oh wait, the police isn't omniscient and can't teleport either. It always amazes me how the anti-gun crowd seems to be oblivious of these simple facts.

Last i heard ambulances and teleportation to the hospital after a gun shot wound from a good guy gun owner is also not possible.

[Coolthulhu]

Sorry but the 2nd does not limit or discriminate between good responsible gun owners/ownership and bad ones.

And? I've always been critical of the US approach in that I think safety training should be mandatory for anyone owning guns. And if they don't keep them responsibly, well that's criminal negligence.

Last i heard ambulances and teleportation to the hospital after a gun shot wound from a good guy gun owner is also not possible.

Neither is teleportation to the hospital after getting bludgeoned by a good burglar with a crowbar. Forgive me if I'm more concerned for the lives of law-abiding citizens than for those of criminals.[/QUOTE]

[Maneo]

I am back and 200 bucks richer. Me and a friend had a wager who could unplug the longest.

I come back and see this bill is attempting to get passed H.R. 5717

Leave it to certain parties (sure you can guess) to capitalize on a pandemic to push through their BS.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...on/5231813002/

[Zan15]

I am back and 200 bucks richer. Me and a friend had a wager who could unplug the longest.

I come back and see this bill is attempting to get passed H.R. 5717

Leave it to certain parties (sure you can guess) to capitalize on a pandemic to push through their BS.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...on/5231813002/

umm how does this capitalize on a pandemic?
Introduced in House (01/30/2020)

not attached to any pandemic bill.

How can they "push it through" when it still requires a "certain party" in control of the senate and WH to pass?


am I missing something here?


On a side note, LOL OH LOOK they are fact checking liburals too... /shakes angry censorship orange hand at usa today!!!

[Daelak]

Another recent example of the purpose of the Second Amendment in action.....https://www.foxnews.com/us/florida-m...ng-wife-police

A Florida man in his 70s fatally shot a home intruder who busted through the glass front door and began attacking his wife on Tuesday, investigators said.

Deputies arrived at the Panama City home around 6:05 a.m. and found 31-year-old Nathan Jerrell Edwards laying on the floor dead and a handgun on the counter, the Bay County Sheriff’s Office said.

This has nothing to do with the purpose of the 2nd amendment as written. US revolutionaries beared arms against the Royal British Military with well regulated militias, with the Massachusetts' Springfield Armory being ground zero for arms, fatigues, and officer training grounds who would then be dispatched throughout the colonies to reproduce the same results, with exceptional efficiency and success.

[Dadwen]

This has nothing to do with the purpose of the 2nd amendment as written. US revolutionaries beared arms against the Royal British Military with well regulated militias, with the Massachusetts' Springfield Armory being ground zero for arms, fatigues, and officer training grounds who would then be dispatched throughout the colonies to reproduce the same results, with exceptional efficiency and success.

didn't we have this above argument about 30 pages back (or more) in this thread and it was blown to hell....

yada yada "," and yada that time period meaning of the term "well regulated" yada yada...

[Ghostpanther]

I am back and 200 bucks richer. Me and a friend had a wager who could unplug the longest.

I come back and see this bill is attempting to get passed H.R. 5717

Leave it to certain parties (sure you can guess) to capitalize on a pandemic to push through their BS.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...on/5231813002/

Yep. That is a bull shit bill. Just another way to get tax dollars from the citizens from a "feels good" ineffective bill. It punishes the poor so it makes owning a firearm for self protection, harder.

[Stormdash]

This has nothing to do with the purpose of the 2nd amendment as written. US revolutionaries beared arms against the Royal British Military with well regulated militias, with the Massachusetts' Springfield Armory being ground zero for arms, fatigues, and officer training grounds who would then be dispatched throughout the colonies to reproduce the same results, with exceptional efficiency and success.

The 2nd Amendment protects, from the day it was written, the individual right of firearm ownership for any lawful purpose. Deleting trash that try to violently prey upon you included.

[the game]

Yep. That is a bull shit bill. Just another way to get tax dollars from the citizens from a "feels good" ineffective bill. It punishes the poor so it makes owning a firearm for self protection, harder.

I really hope it doesn't pass. Honestly though I doubt it would get enough support to pass.

[Zan15]

Yep. That is a bull shit bill. Just another way to get tax dollars from the citizens from a "feels good" ineffective bill. It punishes the poor so it makes owning a firearm for self protection, harder.

and yet oddly enough when this same arguement is used for voter ID laws, republicans deny it will hurt and punish the poor making it harder to vote.

so which is it?

[Ghostpanther]

I really hope it doesn't pass. Honestly though I doubt it would get enough support to pass.

It won't. Every now and then, the radical anti- gun ownership crowd comes up with these. Only way it would is if all branches of a government favor such type bills. Which they don't.

Federal level I mean. Even in Ohio, it never will. As the Republicans control the House, Senate and Governorship.

[Daelak]

didn't we have this above argument about 30 pages back (or more) in this thread and it was blown to hell....

yada yada "," and yada that time period meaning of the term "well regulated" yada yada...

No, no one can dispute the original text of the 2nd amendment, nor the historical context as to why it was in the Bill of Rights. Well regulated militias were the major reason the US won their independence. Any post-hoc reading or interpretation that doesn't recognize or concede that is where it originated is being disingenuous and wanting to perpetuate misinformation about the formation of the United States.

[Stormdash]

and yet oddly enough when this same arguement is used for voter ID laws, republicans deny it will hurt and punish the poor making it harder to vote.

so which is it?

The difference is, it's almost non-existent that the desire to vote incurs any cost to obtaining a valid state-issued photo ID. The cost is absorbed into the fact that almost everyone needs and has one whether they vote or not.

[Dadwen]

No, no one can dispute the original text of the 2nd amendment, nor the historical context as to why it was in the Bill of Rights. Well regulated militias were the major reason the US won their independence. Any post-hoc reading or interpretation that doesn't recognize or concede that is where it originated is being disingenuous and wanting to perpetuate misinformation about the formation of the United States.

Yep but people like you keep trying.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

short of it for the new comers - Well Regulated back then just mean to be of good working order (google it, it has nothing to do with being under regulations)

so to have a properly working Militia, to secure our freedom, the right of the people (not the state, not the church, the the cub scouts, but the people) shalt not have the right to bear arms infringed.

*what moron would think that having the state *you know one the two (domestic or foreign) things that can endanger a free state, keep control over the power to keep that freedom secure.....

[Daelak]

Yep but people like you keep trying.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

short of it for the new comers - Well Regulated back then just mean to be of good working order (google it, it has nothing to do with being under regulations)

so to have a properly working Militia, to secure our freedom, the right of the people (not the state, not the church, the the cub scouts, but the people) shalt not have the right to bear arms infringed.

*what moron would think that having the state *you know one the two (domestic or foreign) things that can endanger a free state, keep control over the power to keep that freedom secure.....

Well regulated militia meant a professional militia, one that was funded by wealthy landowners in lieu of service, managed by officers from prior wars, stocked with fatigues, arms, ammunition in the local armory. They regularly trained the yeomen at the armory and in town squares. All of that is what a well regulated militia was. Locally managed and locally mustered troops. That's what the 2nd Amendment is all about. Nothing else. To derive some other interpretation from the 2nd would be equally as insane as deriving any other interpretation of the 3rd.

[Svifnymr]

The difference is, it's almost non-existent that the desire to vote incurs any cost to obtaining a valid state-issued photo ID. The cost is absorbed into the fact that almost everyone needs and has one whether they vote or not.

Most of the voter ID laws include provisions for free ID's, which would be a good idea in general in todays society. Can't afford the $5 for an ID, get an ID for free so you can have the same access to all the things that require an ID in the modern world.

And to bring it back to the thread topic, you do need an ID to buy a gun, so the argument is sort of pointless anyway. The comparison would be to straight up poll taxes, which are obviously not allowed. I'd like to be able to easily register to have guns delivered to my house too, that'd be cool.

[Dadwen]

Well regulated militia meant a professional militia, one that was funded by wealthy landowners in lieu of service, managed by officers from prior wars, stocked with fatigues, arms, ammunition in the local armory. They regularly trained the yeomen at the armory and in town squares. All of that is what a well regulated militia was. Locally managed and locally mustered troops. That's what the 2nd Amendment is all about. Nothing else. To derive some other interpretation from the 2nd would be equally as insane as deriving any other interpretation of the 3rd.

wow broken record (we went over this and it was trashed) everyone (granted at that time period it was usually any male that could hold a gun) is\was the militia end of story. you had organized and un-organized but both were part of the "properly functioning" militia.

[Stormdash]

Well regulated militia meant a professional militia, one that was funded by wealthy landowners in lieu of service, managed by officers from prior wars, stocked with fatigues, arms, ammunition in the local armory. They regularly trained the yeomen at the armory and in town squares. All of that is what a well regulated militia was. Locally managed and locally mustered troops. That's what the 2nd Amendment is all about. Nothing else. To derive some other interpretation from the 2nd would be equally as insane as deriving any other interpretation of the 3rd.

This is a latter day fantasy with not a single contemporaneous writing from any of the founder during their lifespan to support it. Hasn't changed.

You will not live a day in your life in an America where the 2nd Amendment isn't an individual right and gun ownership of semi-automatic weapons including rifles is less widespread than it is today.

[Draco-Onis]

This is a latter day fantasy with not a single contemporaneous writing from any of the founder during their lifespan to support it. Hasn't changed.

You will not live a day in your life in an America where the 2nd Amendment isn't an individual right and gun ownership of semi-automatic weapons including rifles is less widespread than it is today.

ROFLMAO I am sorry but this has to be some kind of joke no one knows what America will look like in even 10 years. Your declaration is pure hubris not to mention the fact that the day may come in our lifetime when semi-automatic weapons are considered as dangerous as muskets since technology advances.

Who knows what future generations decide I sure as hell am not arrogant enough to say I do it's up to them.

[Daelak]

wow broken record (we went over this and it was trashed) everyone (granted at that time period it was usually any male that could hold a gun) is\was the militia end of story. you had organized and un-organized but both were part of the "properly functioning" militia.

No way. Unorganized militias did not win the revolutionary war, and as such, there was no qualifier in the 2nd amendment protecting unorganized militias. It plainly states a well regulated militia, aka locally funded/managed, locally mustered. No national government, domestic or otherwise, could ever curb the right for local communities to amass funds to construct an armory, hire officers, purchase arms, ammunition, fatigues, and conduct regular exercises.

- - - Updated - - -

This is a latter day fantasy with not a single contemporaneous writing from any of the founder during their lifespan to support it. Hasn't changed.

You will not live a day in your life in an America where the 2nd Amendment isn't an individual right and gun ownership of semi-automatic weapons including rifles is less widespread than it is today.

It's war history of the revolution. Most founders were revolutionaries who sacrificed their careers, wealth, and status to the war effort. They were part of organized militias from across the colonies. They had a violent aversion to national standing armies, and the 2nd amendment shows that no government can limit the formation of a well regulated militias in one's community.

Which just shows how egregious and wrong current "interpretations" of the 2nd amendment are. It will be another Dread Scott.