Poll: Do you Support Assault Weapons Ban?

  1. #7821
    Quote Originally Posted by tiporispit View Post
    Over half of murders in the United States are drug-related. Taking that into account, since it's a drug policy issue, not a gun issue, the United States firearm murder rate is 15 times that of Britain, not 51. It's cute you picked 2008, because last year there were twice that number in Britain. Nice try. You are a geographically small landmass, surrounded by water. The United States is the 4th largest country by landmass in the world, and it borders a lawless cesspool it is unwilling to do anything about. Half the gang members living in the United States are not even citizens. Does Britain have that problem? No. Honestly, only bed-wetting liberals even care what the rest of the world thinks. We can whip everyone's ass 10x over in a full scale mobilization. We have 7 times your GDP. Why would we ever want to do things your way?
    Yeah but every industrialised nation has drugs and yet only America seems to have this problem with an incredibly high homicide rate. Meanwhile America has by far the most firearms per capita of any country on the planet, but I'm sure you're right and that's a TOTAL COINCIDENCE.

    P.S. Here is the only thing I could find on drug offences by country, no idea if it's accurate but according to it you're waaaaaay behind Europe and the UK (US is no. 41):

    http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...-drug-offences
    Last edited by Mormolyce; 2013-01-29 at 04:29 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  2. #7822
    Quote Originally Posted by FusedMass View Post
    I wanted to copy and paste something to you. Your point of view is noted as invalid as it made be. To respond to FusedMass.

    Assault weapon refers to different types of firearms, and is a term that has differing meanings and usages.

    In discussions about gun laws and gun politics in the United States, an assault weapon is most commonly defined as a semi-automatic firearm possessing certain features similar to those of military firearms. Semi-automatic firearms fire one bullet (round) each time the trigger is pulled; the spent cartridge case is ejected and another cartridge is loaded into the chamber, without the manual operation of a bolt handle, a lever, or a sliding handgrip. An assault weapon has a detachable magazine, in conjunction with one, two, or more other features such as a pistol grip, a folding stock, a flash suppressor, or a bayonet lug.[1] Most assault weapons are rifles, but some are pistols or shotguns. The exact definition of the term in this context varies among each of the various jurisdictions that limit or prohibit assault weapon manufacture, importation, sale, or possession, and legislative attempts are often made to change the definitions

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_weapon
    Realize, this is the problem with the 'gun control'. The current way about going about it, is both very subjective, and not even going after the right things. If you want to stop gun violence, look at the large picture. Not a few highly sensationalized media hypes. Realize most of the gun violence in the US, is from guns gotten illegally; also they are committed with handguns.

  3. #7823
    Quote Originally Posted by Findlyn View Post
    Realize, this is the problem with the 'gun control'. The current way about going about it, is both very subjective, and not even going after the right things. If you want to stop gun violence, look at the large picture. Not a few highly sensationalized media hypes. Realize most of the gun violence in the US, is from guns gotten illegally; also they are committed with handguns.
    Got any stats to back that claim up? Also, what is the ultimate source of those illegal guns? If someone robs a legal gun owner that gun may be "gotten illegally" but if there were no legal gun owners then that gun wouldn't have entered the hands of criminals would it?

    Notably, all of these recent gun massacres appear to have been committed either by legal gun owners or people who took their guns from legal owners.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  4. #7824
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    Yeah but every industrialised nation has drugs and yet only America seems to have this problem with an incredibly high homicide rate. Meanwhile America has by far the most firearms per capita of any country on the planet, but I'm sure you're right and that's a TOTAL COINCIDENCE.

    P.S. Here is the only thing I could find on drug offences by country, no idea if it's accurate but according to it you're waaaaaay behind Europe and the UK (US is no. 41):

    http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...-drug-offences
    That website is so horrible, I don't know why people keep linking to it. Just a glance at the data will tell you it's trash.

    Drug Offenses, UK: 183,419 per 100,000 people

    What? What could they possibly be counting when that number is saying that, on average, every person in the country is arrested TWICE on a drug charge.

  5. #7825
    Quote Originally Posted by Findlyn View Post
    Realize, this is the problem with the 'gun control'. The current way about going about it, is both very subjective, and not even going after the right things. If you want to stop gun violence, look at the large picture. Not a few highly sensationalized media hypes. Realize most of the gun violence in the US, is from guns gotten illegally; also they are committed with handguns.
    You know you are correct. I would like to look at the bigger picture. Perhaps I could include Mental Health, or Violent Movies that may contribute to gun violence instead of focusing solely on that weapon alone I have been missing the overall bigger picture that includes all the factors only combined do they do this.

    I tried doing that..in fact here is a thread in which I opened up wanting to speak about the culture of violence. You know what happened? Instead of having a serious debate about the culture of violence I was repeatedly asked in the thread.

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...spect-At-Large

    What's difference from a Semi Automatic to a Fully Automatic with them already knowing the answer. All so they could say AH-HA you know nothing uneducated Liberal. In fact in this thread. I repeatedly ask the people to focus on the original question and they choose to ignore it to focus on my personal knowledge of weapons.

    You are correct in the sense that a ton of guns are committed with hand guns. We should really close the Gun Show loop Hole that allows a person to buy a weapon directly from another with no background check. No way to track the weapons? In fact if I was looking to buy a bunch of weapons I would go to a Gun Show. It's a Loop Hole that allows the bad guys to get weapons.

    The exact thing we are trying to stop. What is the purpose of owning a gun for protection against bad guys. If you allow those same bad guys to walk in your Gun Show and buy guns with virtually nothing expect the exchange of Cash to Monitor it.

  6. #7826
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    Got any stats to back that claim up? Also, what is the ultimate source of those illegal guns? If someone robs a legal gun owner that gun may be "gotten illegally" but if there were no legal gun owners then that gun wouldn't have entered the hands of criminals would it?

    Notably, all of these recent gun massacres appear to have been committed either by legal gun owners or people who took their guns from legal owners.
    Stats to back up the claim at that the majority of gun violence occurs with illegal guns, and that most crime is committed with handguns? Sure. We can start here (LINK).

    "According to the 1997 Survey of State Prison Inmates, among those possessing a gun, the source of the gun was from -

    a flea market or gun show for fewer than 2%
    a retail store or pawnshop for about 12%
    family, friends, a street buy, or an illegal source for 80%

    During the offense that brought them to prison, 15% of State inmates and 13% of Federal inmates carried a handgun, and about 2%, a military-style semiautomatic gun."


    "According to the National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS) in 2008, 303,880 victims of violent crimes stated that they faced an offender with a firearm. "

    300,000 violent crimes with a gun. With around 280,000,000 firearms in the US, that's about 99.89% of firearms NOT used in a crime.

    Top Guns Used in Crimes (LINK)

    S&W .38 Revolver. (Why? Because this is what all the police used to carry for decades. When they switched over to semi-automatic pistols (mainly Glocks), they traded these Revolvers back to the gun retailers, who resold them. There are hundreds of thousands of these things in existance)
    Ruger 9mm semiauto
    Lorcin .380 (Lorcin is a piece of shit gun, super cheap)
    Raven Arms .25 (Again, another "Saturday Night Special" piece of shit handgun)
    Mossberg 12 Gauge Shotgun
    S&W 9mm Semiautomatic
    S&W .357 Magnum Revolver
    Bryco Arms 9mm semiauto
    Bryco Arms .380 semiauto
    David Industries .380 semiauto

    Most guns used in crime cheap handguns. You know why? Because most crimes are committed by cheap thugs involved with drugs. They aren't going to use a rifle (not concealable) and they aren't going to use a $1000 1911 either. Because they'll sell the 1911, buy drugs and a $80 handgun to rob people with.

    As for massacres, there's nothing you can really to do stop premeditated madmen, other than get weapon in front of them ASAP.
    "The single best way to respond to a mass shooter is with an immediate, violent response. The vast majority of the time, as soon as a mass shooter meets serious resistance, it bursts their fantasy world bubble. Then they kill themselves or surrender. This has happened over and over again." Quoting someone else's opinion on the subject.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-29 at 04:54 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by FusedMass View Post
    You are correct in the sense that a ton of guns are committed with hand guns. We should really close the Gun Show loop Hole that allows a person to buy a weapon directly from another with no background check. No way to track the weapons? In fact if I was looking to buy a bunch of weapons I would go to a Gun Show. It's a Loop Hole that allows the bad guys to get weapons.

    The exact thing we are trying to stop. What is the purpose of owning a gun for protection against bad guys. If you allow those same bad guys to walk in your Gun Show and buy guns with virtually nothing expect the exchange of Cash to Monitor it.
    The gunshow loophole is a red herring, a snappy term that just refers to private transfer. And it's still illegal to sell to someone that you know is prohibited. So crack down on those unscrupulous sellers if you want, that's an enforcement issue, not one requiring new laws.

  7. #7827
    Quote Originally Posted by Porcell View Post

    The gunshow loophole is a red herring, a snappy term that just refers to private transfer. And it's still illegal to sell to someone that you know is prohibited. So crack down on those unscrupulous sellers if you want, that's an enforcement issue, not one requiring new laws.
    It isn't a red herring. It is a loophole that allows anyone without a federal firearms license to sell a weapon to anyone who doesn't walk up to them and say 'I'm a felon, sell me a gun.'

  8. #7828
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    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    It isn't a red herring. It is a loophole that allows anyone without a federal firearms license to sell a weapon to anyone who doesn't walk up to them and say 'I'm a felon, sell me a gun.'
    It's not a loophole, it's the law. Just like I can sell my handgun to someone I know. It's a private sale. It's the law. Nothing "loophole" about it. Like I said, it's a snappy term to refer to a legal action.

    And if people ARE selling guns illegally, then arrest them.

    If you want to read up on the law, you can do so here: http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html

    Q: What record-keeping procedures should be followed when two private individuals want to engage in a firearms transaction?
    When a transaction takes place between private (unlicensed) persons who reside in the same State, the Gun Control Act (GCA) does not require any record keeping. A private person may sell a firearm to another private individual in his or her State of residence and, similarly, a private individual may buy a firearm from another private person who resides in the same State. It is not necessary under Federal law for a Federal firearms licensee (FFL) to assist in the sale or transfer when the buyer and seller are “same-State” residents. Of course, the transferor/seller may not knowingly transfer a firearm to someone who falls within any of the categories of prohibited persons contained in the GCA. See 18 U.S.C. §§ 922(g) and (n). However, as stated above, there are no GCA-required records to be completed by either party to the transfer.
    Last edited by Porcell; 2013-01-29 at 05:07 AM.

  9. #7829
    Bloodsail Admiral Csnyder's Avatar
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    did you know no assault rifle was used in the conn. shooting, it was in his trunk, he used 4 pistols, they only reported that after the ban

  10. #7830
    Quote Originally Posted by FusedMass View Post
    I wanted to copy and paste something to you. Your point of view is noted as invalid as it made be. To respond to GreatOak. Not everyone is as trained as you are. Not everyone equally have taken the required training classes on owning a firearm. If everyone equally was a responsible gun owner then these law's would not be processed. It is because everyone is not in the trained hands of you that the problem exists.

    Assault weapon refers to different types of firearms, and is a term that has differing meanings and usages.

    In discussions about gun laws and gun politics in the United States, an assault weapon is most commonly defined as a semi-automatic firearm possessing certain features similar to those of military firearms. Semi-automatic firearms fire one bullet (round) each time the trigger is pulled; the spent cartridge case is ejected and another cartridge is loaded into the chamber, without the manual operation of a bolt handle, a lever, or a sliding handgrip. An assault weapon has a detachable magazine, in conjunction with one, two, or more other features such as a pistol grip, a folding stock, a flash suppressor, or a bayonet lug.[1] Most assault weapons are rifles, but some are pistols or shotguns. The exact definition of the term in this context varies among each of the various jurisdictions that limit or prohibit assault weapon manufacture, importation, sale, or possession, and legislative attempts are often made to change the definitions

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_weapon
    I hope you surely realize the "flaw" in your (and everyone else who wants to ban these scary looking guns) logic is.

    Hell, you did the work for me bolding it. An "assault weapon" fires the EXACT same way as a pistol, most rifles and some shotguns. The big "problem" the anti-gun people seem to have it they want to ban them PURELY due to looks, literally. You literally bolded the points to me about why it's the stupidest "argument" you guys can make about banning these guns.

    Of course, you could also be one of the anti-gun people who want to ban every gun, in which case your logic (as flawed as it is for banning "assault weapons") would be understandable considering it's a SEMI-AUTOMATIC, just like every pistol, most rifles, and some shotguns.

  11. #7831
    Quote Originally Posted by Porcell View Post
    It's not a loophole, it's the law. Just like I can sell my handgun to someone I know. It's a private sale. It's the law. Nothing "loophole" about it. Like I said, it's a snappy term to refer to a legal action.

    And if people ARE selling guns illegally, then arrest them.
    It is a loophole in a law that attempts to prevent felons from acquiring weapons. I understand it is currently legal, because of the loophole. It should be fixed. Any private seller should be able to go to a gun store and pay (or have the purchaser) pay a couple bucks to have that store do the background check, and then complete the sale.

    But then, I think all sales should be registered as should all weapons, and that varies state to state.

  12. #7832
    Quote Originally Posted by noobstar View Post
    I agree completely. And my thoughts on this whole ridiculous ban assault rifles thing...Go buy a ruger Mini-14 with a nice wood stock and zero Mods it's NOT considered an assault rifle ... shoots the SAME rounds as the dreaded AR-15 and its as fast as your finger can pull.... or buy a semi- auto shotgun load it up with triple-aught buck and throw 6-9.1MM pellets all at once at a fast pace.... This whole meeting of the minds is wasting our tax money when they need to just focus on mental health and the people behind the guns.
    Wait, so this ruger Mini-14 can switch between full, semi and burst? If not, it's not an assault rifle. I'm not saying you're one of them (you seem to be smarter than that) but I really just don't think these people get the ACTUAL difference between "assault rifle" (a real term as far as guns go) and "assault weapon" (a word conjured up by MSM/anti-gun fanatics.

  13. #7833
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    Quote Originally Posted by Csnyder View Post
    did you know no assault rifle was used in the conn. shooting, it was in his trunk, he used 4 pistols, they only reported that after the ban
    This keeps being repeated and it is wrong. The INITIAL report was that the rifle was in the vehicle. This was later revised; all of the people were shot with the rifle, and he killed himself with one of his two handguns. There was a shotgun found in the vehicle.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-29 at 05:11 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    It is a loophole in a law that attempts to prevent felons from acquiring weapons. I understand it is currently legal, because of the loophole. It should be fixed. Any private seller should be able to go to a gun store and pay (or have the purchaser) pay a couple bucks to have that store do the background check, and then complete the sale.
    A private seller can already do this. They are not required to do so, however.

    And I don't know how you can call something a loophole when it is explicitly spelled out in Law. It's not an ambiguity in the system, it's explicit.

  14. #7834
    Quote Originally Posted by FusedMass View Post
    You know you are correct. I would like to look at the bigger picture. Perhaps I could include Mental Health, or Violent Movies that may contribute to gun violence instead of focusing solely on that weapon alone I have been missing the overall bigger picture that includes all the factors only combined do they do this.

    I tried doing that..in fact here is a thread in which I opened up wanting to speak about the culture of violence. You know what happened? Instead of having a serious debate about the culture of violence I was repeatedly asked in the thread.

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...spect-At-Large

    What's difference from a Semi Automatic to a Fully Automatic with them already knowing the answer. All so they could say AH-HA you know nothing uneducated Liberal. In fact in this thread. I repeatedly ask the people to focus on the original question and they choose to ignore it to focus on my personal knowledge of weapons.

    You are correct in the sense that a ton of guns are committed with hand guns. We should really close the Gun Show loop Hole that allows a person to buy a weapon directly from another with no background check. No way to track the weapons? In fact if I was looking to buy a bunch of weapons I would go to a Gun Show. It's a Loop Hole that allows the bad guys to get weapons.

    The exact thing we are trying to stop. What is the purpose of owning a gun for protection against bad guys. If you allow those same bad guys to walk in your Gun Show and buy guns with virtually nothing expect the exchange of Cash to Monitor it.
    To be fair, there is no 'original question' other then the pole you put up from your OP. Just you posting different news articles. Second, you obviously havent been to a gun show, and are just repeating what you have heard from media that are biased to one side of the issue. I have been to gun shows, every merchant I have seen selling firearms, did background checks. However, it is true that there is currently no legal way for people to do a private sale while able to a background check.

    However, it is not illegal to do a private sale either, unless there is reasonable cause to believe that person is a danger to themselves and/or others. I do agree, that there should be laws enacted, that would allow people to go through their local sheriffs office or dealers to do a background check to legally do a private sale. The laws they are trying to enact though, does not do this. Instead they are putting in laws that will solve nothing.

    and to the constant question on 'why do you NEED to own x/y/z'

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_...s_Constitution

    As ratified by the States and authenticated by Thomas Jefferson, Secretary of State:

    A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

    Because we have the right. For the same reasons we are able to debate on this forum without worrying about having a government coming and kicking our door and dragging us out in the middle of the night for saying something against them.

    But while I am a strong believer in our 2nd amendment, I also am not against the current system of background checks. All we need to do is enforce our current laws, and maybe write a small few more to help enforce and make sure legal citizens are the ones getting their hands on guns. What they are currently trying to push is all just subjective non-sense, that is wasting time and tax payers money; that will ultimately do nothing on the US's gun violence.

  15. #7835
    Quote Originally Posted by Porcell View Post
    [B]"According to the 1997 Survey of State Prison Inmates, among those possessing a gun, the source of the gun was from -

    a flea market or gun show for fewer than 2%
    a retail store or pawnshop for about 12%
    family, friends, a street buy, or an illegal source for 80%
    Wait a minute, how can you lump in friends, family a street buy and an "illegal source" (whatever that means) as one category? If you get your gun from a legal gun owner then sure you aren't licensed to use that gun so you can say that's an "illegal source" but the key point is that the gun itself became available to the criminal because it was available to the legal owner. If you rob a gun store again, the source may be "illegal" but hey, the reason you got that gun is because gun stores are legal.

    Pretty much the only guns in circulation that aren't available to criminals due to legal proliferation of guns are those that are smuggled into the US illegally. Ie, if you had a massive gun ban that would be the only remaining avenue for criminals to get guns. What percentage of guns used in violent crime come from that source?

    Quote Originally Posted by Porcell View Post
    Most guns used in crime cheap handguns. You know why? Because most crimes are committed by cheap thugs involved with drugs. They aren't going to use a rifle (not concealable) and they aren't going to use a $1000 1911 either. Because they'll sell the 1911, buy drugs and a $80 handgun to rob people with.
    Oh I completely agree, any sensible gun control in the US needs to start with mass buyback and destruction of handguns.

    Quote Originally Posted by Porcell View Post
    That website is so horrible, I don't know why people keep linking to it. Just a glance at the data will tell you it's trash.

    Drug Offenses, UK: 183,419 per 100,000 people

    What? What could they possibly be counting when that number is saying that, on average, every person in the country is arrested TWICE on a drug charge.
    Well yeah "on average", or just 1 person out of 100,000 gets arrested on 183,419 charges. You can't tell from the data.

    You're quite right the data does look suspect - all data comparing rates of offences between countries are because every country has different laws and considers different things "drug offences". I did say I can't vouch for it, but hey, I did put up a link. If it's so wrong maybe you should show me accurate figures?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  16. #7836
    Quote Originally Posted by Porcell View Post
    A private seller can already do this. They are not required to do so, however.

    And I don't know how you can call something a loophole when it is explicitly spelled out in Law. It's not an ambiguity in the system, it's explicit.
    You call it a loophole because it denies the intent of the law, which was to prevent felons from purchasing guns from otherwise upstanding citizens/companies.

  17. #7837
    Looks like the information I was linked to originally was misdated and appears AR15 was used. My bad for not doing more investigating on it. should of noticed the videos they were linking were way out of date and trying to represent them as being new from earlier in the week.

    I do admit when I am wrong.
    Last edited by Findlyn; 2013-01-29 at 05:55 AM.

  18. #7838
    Quote Originally Posted by Findlyn View Post
    Go look up recent reports, from nbc/abc/etc. They all admit recent(within past 3 or 4 days) that non of the people killed in the school shooting was done with the AR-15.
    Link these reports then. Everything I've seen indicates that the AR-15 was the one that killed all of his victims.

  19. #7839
    Quote Originally Posted by noobstar View Post
    I agree completely. And my thoughts on this whole ridiculous ban assault rifles thing...Go buy a ruger Mini-14 with a nice wood stock and zero Mods it's NOT considered an assault rifle ... shoots the SAME rounds as the dreaded AR-15 and its as fast as your finger can pull.... or buy a semi- auto shotgun load it up with triple-aught buck and throw 6-9.1MM pellets all at once at a fast pace.... This whole meeting of the minds is wasting our tax money when they need to just focus on mental health and the people behind the guns.
    Well that's an excellent point, you should email the proponents of the assault rifle ban and lobby for them to include the Mini-14, semi-auto shotguns and any other guns you can think of!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  20. #7840
    I remind you that there are many members of this forum that are not citizens of America. They do not have the same bill of rights as we do, nor have they been raised in an enviroment where self reliance, entrepreneurism and critical thinking are valued as highly as it is in America. There is a reason why the United States is the United States. Primarily because of the freedoms bestowed upon us from our founding fathers. It's why Afgans don't want a democracy, they are used to being ruled, democracy, even freedom is foriegn to them. While in America is it practically in our DNA. Others are from nanny states, where big goverment takes care of them and they have become complacent.

    It's our 2nd Admendment right to own and bear arms. I hear peps say why have an AK-47? Because it is my right, simple as that. Like it or hate it, once you allow the goverment to remove one of your rights, it creates a precedent for the goverment to take more, like our freedom of speech. You are probably rolling yours eyes right now, but history has proven that if you give the goverment an inch they'll take a foot. 20 years ago if I told you the goverment would be able to tax you on personal preference you would of rolled your eyes. The new healthcare law is exactly that, if you don't want healthcare insurence, to bad, you will be taxed. That sets a precedent for an array of laws, since the supreme court ruled that the goverment does have the ability to tax you on our on personal prefrence.

    Our liberties are ours, a gift purchased with blood. We have become a nation of entertainment, we know more about WoW, football, dancing with the stars, then we do of our own history. Past, present, and the future generation have become historically, economically and politically illiterate. We have forgot what it is to be truely American. I don't give a rats ass if you are liberal or conservative, without our current liberties we would be neither. Think about that. It's time we at least stand side by side on protecting those liberties, all of them, not picking a choosing, for our children and theirs.

    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

    -Benjamin Franklin
    Last edited by MikeStexan; 2013-01-29 at 05:36 AM. Reason: Made a B in History

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