Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[alturic]

Th real question is, why are you taking this away from citizens, when it would only save how many lives?

Is it really THAT much of a pain in the ass for you to reload? Of all the stupid things people want to ban, why would anyone be so hung up on LCMs? I'm all for your 2nd amendment right, but honestly what's the difference between 3 10 round magazines or a 30 round magazine? 10 seconds of extra time for every 30 bullets you shoot?

[Templar 331]

Actually, they are barely capable of handling even one thing at a time.

Sadly true.

I do tend to agree with you, but it solves what exactly? Just buy 3 10 round magazines now, no?

Well, if the shooter has 3 10 round mags to start with instead of 1 30+ round mag and 2 10 round mags, sounds like a win to me. It would be easier to hold more smaller rounds, and many have said it's easy to reload smaller ones, but it's still fewer rounds total.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Is it really THAT much of a pain in the ass for you to reload? Of all the stupid things people want to ban, why would anyone be so hung up on LCMs? I'm all for your 2nd amendment right, but honestly what's the difference between 3 10 round magazines or a 30 round magazine? 10 seconds of extra time for every 30 bullets you shoot?

You're right, what is the difference? If there really is no difference-- Thats not a real reason to ban them.

[alturic]

While I respect your unique point of view from an angle. That is incorrect. Saying nothing will get done by definition is inaccurate. Obama a few months ago signed 22 executive orders that relate to gun situation solely. Not only that he tasked Joe Biden the VP with creating a task force. He's toured the Country talking from everyone to Walmart to the NRA.

In fact this discussion has already dominated the airwaves and radio situation and it does not appear to be going anywhere anytime soon. Not only that several dems have pushed their own bills in congress as soon as they were sworn in. This is what I call gathering public support stage. Things have already been done so calling it a waste of time and nothing will get done is on purpose ignoring what already has been done.

This past Wednesday there was a hearing on gun control in Washington where the NRA President spoke to several members of congress. Anyone that turns on the TV can see there is a very strong movement headed by President motivated by the killing of 22 kids and 7 adults. You would almost have to be considered legally blind and deaf without access to TV not to know that.

Even then I'm sure they would be aware.

Do you happen to be referring to the hearing where it was pretty much shown that a hunting rifle will be turned illegal if you added a simple piece of plastic (pistol grip) to it? The one where they said there are guns that fire much larger (and causes more damage) bullets that wouldn't be banned? I did see that too.

[Buckwald]

30 round magazines aren't high capacity. They are standard capacity.

[alturic]

Sadly true.



Well, if the shooter has 3 10 round mags to start with instead of 1 30+ round mag and 2 10 round mags, sounds like a win to me. It would be easier to hold more smaller rounds, and many have said it's easy to reload smaller ones, but it's still fewer rounds total.

How is 5 10 round magazines, compared to 1 30 round and 2 10 rounds be fewer rounds? How is it a "win", what does it "prevent"?

[gr4vitas]

Yes yes everyone smaller magazines will save countless lives! It's like a whole 5 seconds total to reload 3 times!

[alturic]

You're right, what is the difference? If there really is no difference-- Thats not a real reason to ban them.

The difference is (which you haven't answered) why do YOU specifically for example, NEED (I don't care about your wants) a 30+ round magazine? What does it do for you that 3 10 round magazines doesn't? I'm playing devils advocate since I know banning a 30 round magazine will solve nothing, it won't magically prevent 1 killing, but without simply saying "who are you to tell me what I need", why do you NEED it?

[Wells]

[video=youtube;lii1mrsT6D4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lii1mrsT6D4[video]

Yes yes everyone smaller magazines will save countless lives! It's like a whole 5 seconds total to reload 3 times!

Are you implying that someone who teaches how to use these guns for a living is a good comparison to everyone else?

[FusedMass]

Do you happen to be referring to the hearing where it was pretty much shown that a hunting rifle will be turned illegal if you added a simple piece of plastic (pistol grip) to it? The one where they said there are guns that fire much larger (and causes more damage) bullets that wouldn't be banned? I did see that too.

You mean the clip where Tea Party backed Texas Candidate Ted Cruz asked the head of NRA softball questions because he doesn't support it. I did see that and that's why this current bill needs to be updated to include the actual features. It would almost be pointless to outright ban the weapon itself. If you pass a law banning a magazine size holding over ten bullets.

It's not the features on the weapon that make it so dangerous. It's the amount of ammo it can fire and carry. However that was just a pause in one example given. They heard from all aside. They can actually update this bill to include magazine size and not focus on the grip of the weapon. As someone pointed out..AK-47 are not in these murders.

That's because they are heavily regulated so even the bad guys cannot get access to them. However AR-15 are in almost every single one of the situations and it's not regulated at all. That right there proves gun regulation works.

[Orbitus]

a Firearms dealer requires a background check. A private sale does not. Just like when selling a car, a dealership has different requirements then Joe down the block. In order to legally buy a gun, from a store, (which is the only thing requirements are going to affect) already requires a background check

Actually, I don't know if you know what a gun show really is. Its usually like 80% dealers. All you have to do is buy or rent table space. And private sales should require background checks. Simply because say I was mentally unstable and I asked you to buy me a gun and then turn around and sell it to me. I then used that gun in a shooting registered to you. The police saw that you sold the gun to me. Guess what? You are an accessory to murder/attempted murder/burglary with a weapon. Guess what you go to jail now and rightfully so. Guns were designed for 1 thing. To kill. Cars on the other hand? Transportation.

[alturic]

30 round magazines aren't high capacity. They are standard capacity.

A 30 round magazine is "standard" for any AR-15 or "assault weapon" as the MSM likes to call it? Didn't know that. <-- being sincere, not trolling you

[Templar 331]

So your advocating to produce the same effect just learn to change mags faster. So in other words your saying that there is effectively no difference between having 30 rounders and 10 rounders...

In a way, yes. If a man shoots 10 rounds and then takes 1 second to reload and take aim three times instead of shooting 30+ rounds, that's 3 seconds of time for people to react. Not alot, but it can mean the difference if there is someone in the crowd with a hand gun.

Th real question is, why are you taking this away from citizens, when it would only save how many lives?

Even one life is worth being saved. Are you so selfish that you wouldn't give up something you don't need to save someone else? No one is taking your guns away or the right to protect yourself/family. They are limiting the means in how you do it.

[cutterx2202]

I didn't know a government made up of hundreds of elected officials was only capable of handling one thing at a time.

I'll believe they can handle anything at all if they can actually pass a budget. Until then...

[alturic]

Are you implying that someone who teaches how to use these guns for a living is a good comparison to everyone else?

I think he's showing that with the simple flick of a thumb you can reload a magazine on the weapon in the video? I could be wrong though.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

The difference is (which you haven't answered) why do YOU specifically for example, NEED (I don't care about your wants) a 30+ round magazine? What does it do for you that 3 10 round magazines doesn't? I'm playing devils advocate since I know banning a 30 round magazine will solve nothing, it won't magically prevent 1 killing, but without simply saying "who are you to tell me what I need", why do you NEED it?

Well, I am not a murderer, or a psychopath. If I were to shoot more often with a semi-auto rifle, I think it would be personal preference. It would likely ssave time and money, although I am not sure the difference in costs between 3-10's and 1-30.

Regardless, I am not in favor of useless legislation, especially not for the sole reason of appeasing people who THINK it would help, or just as a stepping stone for the anti-gun people.

[Wells]

I'll believe they can handle anything at all if they can actually pass a budget. Until then...

That's rather poor logic. A budget isn't getting passed because of political gridlock, not because Congress can only handle one thing as you seem to be claiming.

Take right now where they're debating immigration reform and gun control, among a dozen other issues.

[alturic]

You mean the clip where Tea Party backed Texas Candidate Ted Cruz asked the head of NRA softball questions because he doesn't support it. I did see that and that's why this current bill needs to be updated to include the actual features. It would almost be pointless to outright ban the weapon itself. If you pass a law banning a magazine size holding over ten bullets.

It's not the features on the weapon that make it so dangerous. It's the amount of ammo it can fire and carry. However that was just a pause in one example given. They heard from all aside. They can actually update this bill to include magazine size and not focus on the grip of the weapon. As someone pointed out..AK-47 are not in these murders.

That's because they are heavily regulated so even the bad guys cannot get access to them. However AR-15 are in almost every single one of the situations and it's not regulated at all. That right there proves gun regulation works.

It's not that he asked him softball questions. It's that he told the truth of why what they want banned is silly, why there are guns that shoot much larger bullets that inherently cause more damage that won't be affected at all by this.

[gr4vitas]

Are you implying that someone who teaches how to use these guns for a living is a good comparison to everyone else?

Very much so, maybe add 2 seconds tops for a poorly skilled individual.

Besides what the fuck do you think the shooter is going to do if he some how magically can only get 10 round magazines? He's going to sit in his room practicing his reload so he can do it faster.

Limiting magazine size isn't going to magically make it so the shooter is going to be drastically slowed down. A few seconds isn't much when your talking about several minutes of killing. Especially in a case where a person is in a school, where the fuck are you going to go in lets say best case scenario it takes him 10 seconds to reload one magazine. Your likely in a close off room with one door.

It just isn't logical or reasonable to thing limiting magazine capacity's is really going to help in any significant or even insignificant way.

[alturic]

Actually, I don't know if you know what a gun show really is. Its usually like 80% dealers. All you have to do is buy or rent table space. And private sales should require background checks. Simply because say I was mentally unstable and I asked you to buy me a gun and then turn around and sell it to me. I then used that gun in a shooting registered to you. The police saw that you sold the gun to me. Guess what? You are an accessory to murder/attempted murder/burglary with a weapon. Guess what you go to jail now and rightfully so. Guns were designed for 1 thing. To kill. Cars on the other hand? Transportation.

Wait a minute, you mean that if I privately sell you a gun to you (assuming I have to legally transfer it to you) I'm going to be an accessory to whatever crime you commit?