Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[obdigore]

Hell if I know? Maybe they count multiple offenses as one report? Stab 4 people, get arrested and noted as one crime? Maybe they eliminate gang related deaths as a crime? I know the FBI had a report awhile about 11k fatalities from shootings, 6k where gang related? Gangs at war maybe not counting? I didn't do the methodology, EU commission did on that one.

I understand that, but I've been unable to find their Methodology, and it seems off to me. So either I'm missing something or their methodology was different (which would lead to different results) than what we can use to talk about violence between nations.

There is literally no way your link is a comparison of total violent crimes between nations. It might be already controlled for population.

from http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/off...ime/index.html

In 2009, an estimated 1,318,398 violent crimes occurred nationwide,

I wonder if your source is listing crimes reported by EU citizens in the US?

[PizzaSHARK]

Ofcourse there isn't

So, then, what good is banning something that doesn't exist going to do?

[Sensei_Sin]

I understand that, but I've been unable to find their Methodology, and it seems off to me. So either I'm missing something or their methodology was different (which would lead to different results) than what we can use to talk about violence between nations.

http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/sta...ogy.2FMetadata

[endersblade]

More people die yearly to hand guns and hunting type weapons than assault guns...but one incident happens, and people pull out the torches and pitchforks? WTB new country to live in, PST!

[Deleted]

So, then, what good is banning something that doesn't exist going to do?

Do you really want to bother going into the technical details of this?

[Todgruppe]

I understand that, but I've been unable to find their Methodology, and it seems off to me. So either I'm missing something or their methodology was different (which would lead to different results) than what we can use to talk about violence between nations.

Also -> http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/off...ible_rape.html


There is literally no way your link is a comparison of total violent crimes between nations. It might be already controlled for population.

Edit -> from the same source (http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/off...ime/index.html)

Been trying to find a better list for violent crime, but only thing that keeps coming up is.




Don't trust them, but I know US is ~440 per 100k on "violent crime"; rape/assault/homicide (murder,manslaughter)/burglary/robbery

[obdigore]

More people die yearly to hand guns and hunting type weapons than assault guns...but one incident happens, and people pull out the torches and pitchforks? WTB new country to live in, PST!

There are a ton of them. No one is forcing you to remain an US citizen.

[Articuno]

Columbine happened when the first AWB was in place. All this will be is a feel-good law that does nothing, just like the first one.

[Todgruppe]

There are a ton of them. No one is forcing you to remain an US citizen.

Dear god obdigore, it's millions the 11,434 is (1,000). So 11,634,000, etc. Damnit that shit needs to be noted better, had to open the Excel file.

Edit: I guess "Crimes recorded by the police, 1999-2009 (1 000)" denotes it but, damn that is annoying.

[PizzaSHARK]

Do you really want to bother going into the technical details of this?

You're suggesting we ban something that doesn't exist. Why?

[Mayhem]

Been trying to find a better list for violent crime, but only thing that keeps coming up is.




Don't trust them, but I know US is ~440 per 100k on "violent crime"; rape/assault/homicide (murder,manslaughter)/burglary/robbery

what is this list, this looks like a joke, austria ranks 2nd place? like one of 63 residents in austria is accused of one of the above crimes? damn, our newspapers suck

[v2prwsmb45yhuq3wj23vpjk]

Obdigore, using a site like the DailyKos to support an argument would be like citing Fox News or Huffington Post. They have a clear agenda, so you can't really assume the information they're presenting hasn't been spin doctored to ensure it furthers their agenda.

At best, you just use the site to find links to their sources, which will hopefully be more legitimate.

Almost all news sources have an agenda and play to it.

[Deleted]

Been trying to find a better list for violent crime, but only thing that keeps coming up is.




Don't trust them, but I know US is ~440 per 100k on "violent crime"; rape/assault/homicide (murder,manslaughter)/burglary/robbery

number 1 for violent crimes, but 13th in europe for murders, Because its near impossible to get a gun - ban guns the image proves the what the left says - if you ban guns less people will get killed
the republicans always say its the people and not the weapons that kill, yet the UK is the most violent country in europe and is rated 13th in homicide - obviously violent people wont kill each other as much if guns are outlawed

[obdigore]

Dear god obdigore, it's millions the 11,434 is (1,000). So 11,634,000, etc. Damnit that shit needs to be noted better, had to open the Excel file.

Edit: I guess "Crimes recorded by the police, 1999-2009 (1 000)" denotes it but, damn that is annoying.

Hurrr Durr, my fault. I should have realized.

[RicardoZ]

Doesn't mean we should make it easier for them to obtain tools. In most cases of mass killings, the weapon was obtained legally.

Actually the cases where weapons were obtained legally are far in the minority, seeing that the authors of these tragic events are often underage. I think only a small handful have been over the age of 21 and an even smaller handful of those have actually used legally purchased weapons.

I don't support an outright ban on assault weapons, but I do definitely think they need to add anti-depressants to the list of medications that will prohibit somebody from owning a firearm. Seratonin inhibiting drugs like Luvox or what-have-you are a common thread in these attacks.

[kojinshugi]

uhhhhhh wtf? they do realize that any full-auto weapon is against the law to own AND any magazine that holds over 30 rounds is too right? how can you ban something that is already against the law to own?

Oh look, you've drank the NRA kool-aid.

Semi-auto rifles are deadlier than full-auto. 30 round magazines are far too big.

If Lanza had to make due with a 5-round revolver, or even a shotgun, he would have killed far fewer people.

---------- Post added 2012-12-18 at 10:09 AM ----------

You're suggesting we ban something that doesn't exist. Why?

The Bushmaster civilian AR-15 most certainly exists. It's an assault weapon by any sane definition of the word. You don't need 30 round banana clips for hunting. You don't need 30 round banana clips for home defense. You need one to kill lots of people without pausing to reload too often.

Of course, NRA gun fetishists like to pretend nothing more than a full-auto is an "assault" weapon, when in reality that's a completely unilateral definition only used by them.

[Ryme]

I am not from US, by why wouldn't anyone support it? Like he said you don't use assault weapons to hunt deer or any other animals for that matter.

Pretty much my opinion, I have no idea why America is against tight gun control, hell, I'd be appalled if they made guns legal in any form in my country.

[PizzaSHARK]

Almost all news sources have an agenda and play to it.

I didn't mean to imply they didn't. The media as a whole makes their money by retailing fear to their listeners and readers.

I'm just pointing out that you can't take articles from a very clearly biased source (like Fox or HuffPo, who very, very clearly lean in one direction) and expect them to be feeding you anything resembling the truth.

---------- Post added 2012-12-18 at 04:17 AM ----------

Oh look, you've drank the NRA kool-aid.

Semi-auto rifles are deadlier than full-auto. 30 round magazines are far too big.

If Lanza had to make due with a 5-round revolver, or even a shotgun, he would have killed far fewer people.

And he could've made an AnFo IED or even some fucking homemade napalm and killed probably three or four times as many people. Are you suggesting we should now ban MiracleGro and styrofoam?

The Bushmaster civilian AR-15 most certainly exists. It's an assault weapon by any sane definition of the word.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_weapon

Even Wikipedia doesn't have a firm definition of exactly what "assault weapon," means. It can mean a gun, it can mean a grenade launcher, or even a fucking rocket launcher.

This is the problem with this bill and the people supporting it. They're so up in arms about this, they aren't actually paying attention to how vague and non-specific the wording of the bill is. This is, incidentally, the same reason SOPA (remember that bill?) was laughed at by everyone who had any clue about what the bill was dealing with.

You don't need 30 round banana clips for hunting. You don't need 30 round banana clips for home defense. You need one to kill lots of people without pausing to reload too often.

Of course, NRA gun fetishists like to pretend nothing more than a full-auto is an "assault" weapon, when in reality that's a completely unilateral definition only used by them.

[Citation Needed]

[obdigore]

Ironically, within 5 years any kind of ban on the purchase of firearms in the US won't matter with the advent of 3d printers. The group working on it (no, I'm not going to link to them as I don't like what they are doing) already printed one out that was able to fire 6 rounds off before fracturing.

Just think, printable weapons with no serial numbers and no record of any kind of sale. Huzzah?

[PizzaSHARK]

Ironically, within 5 years any kind of ban on the purchase of firearms in the US won't matter with the advent of 3d printers. The group working on it (no, I'm not going to link to them as I don't like what they are doing) already printed one out that was able to fire 6 rounds off before fracturing.

Just think, printable weapons with no serial numbers and no record of any kind of sale. Huzzah?

Well, not to mention that gun manufacturers would simply alter their designs until they're just this side of legal anyway.

All these people focusing on the guns are missing the point, anyway.