Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[rhandric]

if you were running around in a simulator with a real fake weapon rather than a mouse and a keyboard then it would be the case.

See Duck Hunt, and a bunch of other arcade games.

[fuzzylogic111]

I have seen little evidence to show gun regulation having a positive effect on violent crime rates. It lowers shootings, yes, but rarely violent crime over all. Criminals just use a different weapon.
When you remove a freedom, you need a DAMN good reason. You need results.
http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp

[Tinykong]

if you were running around in a simulator with a "real" fake weapon rather than a mouse and a keyboard then it would be the case.

The act of actually shooting the weapon might not be replicated in the game, but loading, unloading and other functions are represented in very accurate detail.

And yet, tens of millions of gamers will play these games and never commit a single violent act.

[Deadvolcanoes]

Because that is not what the vast majority of guns are eventually used for.

That's probably pretty inaccurate. I mean our military alone has millions of guns.

There are millions of hunters in America, all who own guns and kill animals with them.

I just don't see the big deal. It's incredibly obvious that guns were invented to kill things. That's perfectly fine.

[Catta]

The act of actually shooting the weapon might not be replicated in the game, but loading, unloading and other functions are represented in very accurate detail.

And yet, tens of millions of gamers will play these games and never commit a single violent act.

You are still using a mouse and keybord. Not a gun.

[Gemini Sunrise]

The mind can still differentiate firing a real gun. You'd need to go full blown virtual reality to even make it close, ya.

And even then, it'd be a stretch. There's usually a disconnect from firing a weapon at a "person" that will be no better/worse off for it, and firing at a real one.

[FusedMass]

Constitutional rights > appeasement of irrational fears

You may be missing my point. When family of loved ones died, speak out on Gun Control thats appealing to emotion?

When NRA selects a Father of NewTown that was murdered against Gun Control. That's acceptable.

Accept appealing to emotion is a two way street.

Except they do have massacres. Arson is fun, you know?

But hey, it's not by guns, so let's say they have none, yeah? Arson deaths aren't important anyways.

Since they're are zero massacres. You reject that entire information. Yes all deaths are important. This is directly related to Gun Violence. No one is stealing your weapons. Please explain to me how arson fits into this discussion association with guns.

Again. I'm calling you out for simply rejecting, refusing to even admit their is a tiny tiny chance it worked. You'd hate to admit success. At least I can give some ground and change positions.

Mass shootings are the odd ball, they're extremely rare. The people doing those acts are generally pretty resourceful too and either don't have priors (which means they would be able to buy guns legally because they could pass the background check) or didn't get their guns legally. In both cases, there is not much that can be done.

Mass shootings are the odd ball, they're extremely rare. The people doing those acts are generally pretty ressourceful too and either don't have priors (which means they would be able to buy guns legally because they could pass the background check) or didn't get their guns legally. In both cases, there is not much that can be done.

Yes. They do happen. 20 Children were murdered. It may be rare. They do happen every year in the United States. The fact we ignore that because its so rare. It shouldn't happen at all. I disagree strongly, "not much could be done"

The perfect place for a hardened criminal to buy weapons with cash. Is not the black alley of some shop. Its at the Gun Shows. Where its perfectly legal, to walk in with cash buy a weapon that cannot be traced. Used that same weapon in a crime.

How can you sincerely say, this system isn't abused/exploited by the people who want to get their hands on weapons in a almost virtually untraceable way. Its perfect way to get a weapon, even if legally they're not allowed to own one.

And to say, nothing can be done. A background check at a Gun Show would do something.

[Rukentuts]

And even then, it'd be a stretch.

Yeah, because you'd have to simulate not only sights and sounds, but physics as well (recoil). Short of neurological implants, I don't see how.

[Tinykong]

You are still using a mouse and keybord. Not a gun.

That might be true, but that doesn't mean the virtual representation isn't accurate. I'd be willing to bet that one could watch a reloading animation in a video game, and then pick up a real gun and load/shoot it without any additional training. The level of detail is actually a matter of pride in the community, with developers advertising how realistic and technically accurate their weapon models and animations are.

Still, that doesn't translate into an epidemic of violence.

[Gemini Sunrise]

Yeah, because you'd have to simulate not only sights and sounds, but physics as well (recoil). Short of neurological implants, I don't see how.

Read the edit as well. I know it would be tough as far as those parts go, but even taking the VR aspect of it, and trying to apply it to a real, breathing human is quite different than the sims can ever do.

[downnola]

because it wasnt only background checks its a bunch of shit piled on to to the background check bill that got it voted down

If you're talking about the Toomey-Manchin bill, I actually thought gun owners came out ahead with that bill. As far as I can tell it got voted down because of skittish politicians that were afraid of the irrational backlash from the gun advocate community. I'm a strong pro-gun advocate, but I felt double downing on outlawing a national gun registry, while at the same time expanding background checks to private sales was a pretty good deal.

I don't normally praise my senator, but Toomey did a good job with that bill.

[Gemini Sunrise]

Since they're are zero massacres. You reject that entire information. Yes all deaths are important. This is directly related to Gun Violence. No one is stealing your weapons. Please explain to me how arson fits into this discussion association with guns.

Again. I'm calling you out for simply rejecting, refusing to even admit their is a tiny tiny chance it worked. You'd hate to admit success. At least I can give some ground and change positions.

No. I agree that Australia did lower their firearm deaths through it. I'm saying you're full of shit in saying there's zero massacres of any type, which is exactly what you implied in your original post.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

The act of actually shooting the weapon might not be replicated in the game, but loading, unloading and other functions are represented in very accurate detail.

And yet, tens of millions of gamers will play these games and never commit a single violent act.

Yes but it's not like it's actually happening.

[Deadvolcanoes]

Because you'll never convince me that people go into a gun store and purchase a gun because they're looking for something to kill people with.

Of course no ones looking to kill other individuals, but you'd have to be pretty dense to not understand the likely outcome of firing a gun at another person.

The purpose of an item is all about its intended use. When most people even think about using a gun against a human being, it's not for the purpose of killing them, it's for the purpose of defending themself, their family, or their property, even if it might include being forced to kill someone.

Why do so many people use guns for home defense? Why not a stun gun? Why not a knife or a paintball gun?

Because guns often kill, and thus are a great deterrent and a great option for defending.

Yes, guns are used to defend, precisely because they are so effective at killing. That's a good thing.

When I bought my firearm, I didn't buy it in hopes that brandishing it would scare away an attacker. I bought it so I could kill someone that threatens my life or the life of my family.

[Aleksej89]

Civilians with assault weapons and explosives?

Who in their right mind would agree to that, especially when the AVERAGE citizen of any country is pretty damn dumb and easily scared into panic and fearful violence - not to mention that HALF the population is even dumber and easier to frighten than that average "Joe"...

[Gemini Sunrise]

Civilians with assault weapons and explosives?

Aren't even supposed to have explosives here (even though people still find ways to make em. Imagine that), and assault weapons are rather misleading.

[Tinykong]

You may be missing my point. When family of loved ones died, speak out on Gun Control thats appealing to emotion?

When NRA selects a Father of NewTown that was murdered against Gun Control. That's acceptable.

Accept appealing to emotion is a two way street.

What I said has nothing to do with appeals to emotion. You asked why we shouldn't put resources into preventing deaths. The government enacting legislation to appease your irrational fear of dying to gun violence is less important than everyone else's Constitutionally protected rights.

[PhaelixWW]

It's incredibly obvious that guns were invented to kill things.

It is. But now you're trying to blur the line between the purpose for which the technology was invented, and the purpose for which the individual objects are obtained today.

[Jaxi]

When I bought my firearm, I didn't buy it in hopes that brandishing it would scare away an attacker. I bought it so I could kill someone that threatens my life or the life of my family.

Kill or not, shooting someone is more likely to disable them then a paintball gun would.

They're saying the purpose of the tool is in how it is used. A flare gun might be intended for emergency situations, but if I pop off a flare into someone's chest, it goes from a life saving instrument to a life taking one. Most all of my guns are not meant to kill, because I'd never fire them in anger at someone. They go with me to the range, they look pretty while I clean them, and they boost the hell out of my ego when I show them off. Past that, they will never be used in anger against someone.

They're purpose evolved from killing to a dangerous little toy.

[Catta]

That might be true, but that doesn't mean the virtual representation isn't accurate. I'd be willing to bet that one could watch a reloading animation in a video game, and then pick up a real gun and load/shoot it without any additional training. The level of detail is actually a matter of pride in the community, with developers advertising how realistic and technically accurate their weapon models and animations are.

Still, that doesn't translate into an epidemic of violence.

I never said that the virtual representation was important. Its the tools. The keyboard and the gun. Targetpractice can be shot at paper or cans or whatever - you are stilling using a gun.