Poll: Do you Support Assault Weapons Ban?

  1. #29501
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eroginous View Post
    Again, it is already possible for any private citizen to submit to a background check before purchasing a firearm from another private citizen.

    Continuing to pretend like we have no gun control laws on the books does not further this discussion.
    so it´s not required, let´s add it as an requirement
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before. A bunch of times actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

  2. #29502
    The Insane Daelak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eroginous View Post
    The bolded part is an attack on my character. 'You believe X? You must be mentally ill!'

    Please learn how to have a civil discussion about the topic rather than attacking the people participating in it.



    Please quote where I said the government was a threat to my existence.

    Also, in case you weren't aware, Edward Snowden is holed up in a different country because if he comes back to the US he faces criminal charges that would likely result in life imprisonment or the death penalty. How's that for justice? You expose the wrongdoings of your government and they charge you with a crime! Who's policing the police officers to make sure they are being good police? Who's governing the government to make sure they are being good government?
    Again, I am not attacking you, I am showing empathy. The government can, will, and/or already have every single bit of information on you, and there is nothing you, your political party, or your guns can do about it.

    You are deluding yourself if you think a CWP will protect you from police brutality, a 5 second armed robbery, or a firefight between federal forces. To compound on the idiocy of believing that a firearm will protect you, are the astronomical chances of you even being an actor in such a situation.
    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    There is a problem, but I know just banning guns will fix the problem.

  3. #29503
    so it´s not required, let´s add it as an requirement
    Go for it! Enjoy seeing absolutely zero change in the number of gun related crimes.

    It's just funny to see you accuse the media of fear mongering to push an agenda, when you follow a similar agenda that is only pushed by fear mongering.
    What? How am I fear mongering? I posted two quick google searches on the NSA spying and the number of police shootings against unarmed citizens. Both of which are very real incidents that happen to people on a daily basis. Furthermore, I'm only advising people to think about the facts at hand. I'm not trying to scare people into behaving or believing things that aren't true to further a specific cause.

    That would be fear mongering.

    It was like that one NRA convention where they said "Don't listen to the media and other government officials and their fear mongering about guns! Guns are the only thing standing between your home being ransacked and your wife and children being raped!" Countering fear mongering with fear mongering.
    I think the NRA are a large problem (as are all lobbying groups) and they constantly ignore actual issues that need to be dealt with, particularly when it comes to gun violence. Blindly opposing any and all gun legislature by putting your fingers in your ears and saying 'lalalalala not listening' is not a good way to handle any policy. Neither the NRA or the Libs are doing the conversation justice by doing it. I personally don't think every person should have a gun or that everyone should constantly be afraid of being raped or shot. 99.99999% of the time you have absolutely nothing to be afraid of anyway.

    However, there is a healthy amount of caution to be had while living life. It's why people get insurance on their cars, houses, and family. It's why people obey traffic laws and drive responsibly. Acting like 'nothing bad could ever happen to you so why take precaution' is no better than sticking your fingers in your ears and ignoring what people are trying to tell you. Buying a gun for personal/home defense is no different than buying insurance for your family and stuff. Is it there to prevent bad stuff from happening? No. Is it going to right all the wrongs that happen in a bad situation? Of course not. But meeting force with force can potentially be an effective deterrent against people who might do you or your family harm.

    You distrust the government because the NSA is collecting data? You've been watching far too many movies/TV where hollywood shows the government framing people for murder and using collected intelligence against them. It doesn't work like it does in hollywood, and you might want to take that tinfoil hat off.
    What are you talking about? When have I ever mentioned anything you just said? If you think the government mindlessly harvesting your private data is a good, right, or just thing, you have issues. There's a reason it's private data. The 4th amendment gives us the right to be secure in our persons and papers, protecting us against unreasonable searches and seizures by requiring a warrant supported by probable cause. The fact that the government can and does harvest all of our accessible private data is an unreasonable search and seizure of said private data. Being against it has nothing to do with some paranoia of what the government might do with that data, it's the fact that it's my private data and I have a right to keep it private. It's the same reason I don't go posting my private emails all over MMO champion or some other public message board. It's the same reason I don't put all my belongings out on the front lawn and go about my daily life for the whole neighborhood to see. It's the same reason I don't walk around in public with my cock hanging out.

    Privacy is privacy and I have a right to it.

    Again, I am not attacking you, I am showing empathy. The government can, will, and/or already have every single bit of information on you, and there is nothing you, your political party, or your guns can do about it.

    You are deluding yourself if you think a CWP will protect you from police brutality, a 5 second armed robbery, or a firefight between federal forces. To compound on the idiocy of believing that a firearm will protect you, are the astronomical chances of you even being an actor in such a situation.
    Telling me I need to see a psychiatrist because I have mental health problems is an attack on my character, no matter what you think or say. It's a comment deliberately meant to derail any merit my posts might bring to the conversation. 'Don't listen to the crazy guy, he's paranoid delusional and off his meds.'

    The fact that you keep building this strawman is a sign you have nothing of value to contribute to the discussion. Feel free to move on and spend your time more wisely, I'm done feeding this troll.

  4. #29504
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eroginous View Post
    Go for it! Enjoy seeing absolutely zero change in the number of gun related crimes.
    what? alright, are you just against anything i say at this point?
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before. A bunch of times actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

  5. #29505
    The Insane Daelak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eroginous View Post

    Telling me I need to see a psychiatrist because I have mental health problems is an attack on my character, no matter what you think or say. It's a comment deliberately meant to derail any merit my posts might bring to the conversation. 'Don't listen to the crazy guy, he's paranoid delusional and off his meds.'

    The fact that you keep building this strawman is a sign you have nothing of value to contribute to the discussion. Feel free to move on and spend your time more wisely, I'm done feeding this troll.
    You are the one talking about how the government is holding all your personal information, you are the one talking about how police officers cannot be trusted, you are the one talking about the 'supposed' benefits of being armed.

    I am not de-railing, it just seems to me you spend an inordinate amount of time and energy being wary and cautious of something that you would have no control over, none whatsoever.

    I am not building a strawman, you won't even address my points.
    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    There is a problem, but I know just banning guns will fix the problem.

  6. #29506
    what? alright, are you just against anything i say at this point?
    No, I genuinely don't believe there's a reason to make background checks mandatory on private gun sales. There's no evidence or data to support their effectiveness, much less justify their implementation, and there's no actual way to enforce such a law to begin with. It's basically the honor system all over again.

  7. #29507
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eroginous View Post
    No, I genuinely don't believe there's a reason to make background checks mandatory on private gun sales. There's no evidence or data to support their effectiveness, much less justify their implementation, and there's no actual way to enforce such a law to begin with. It's basically the honor system all over again.
    they are ineffective because they aren´t mandatory for every purchase
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before. A bunch of times actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

  8. #29508
    they are ineffective because they aren´t mandatory for every purchase
    No, they are ineffective because it's impossible to contrast the number of background checks done against the ones that aren't. They are ineffective because it's impossible to know how many denied prohibited persons get guns anyway. They are ineffective because the process stops at the background check instead of being pursued until conviction of prohibited persons. They are ineffective because no police force in any state has the manpower to monitor gun ownership in real time to make sure the laws are being followed. They are ineffective because no data was being collected on the number of private background checks already being done, prior to them becoming mandatory via state/federal law.

    You can cite Colorado's nearly 5k private background checks in 2013 all day, that doesn't change anything I typed out above. Five thousand compared to what? How many private background checks were being done before they became mandatory? How many of those 72 denied persons were actually felons? How many of them did or did not obtain a gun via other means?

    When you talk about effectiveness, you can't just throw out that 5k number and ignore all the other variables in the equation. The total number of guns being privately bought/sold is what's important. Being unable to contrast the before/after on the number of private background checks being done makes the matter entirely moot.

  9. #29509
    The Unstoppable Force Ghostpanther's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eroginous View Post
    No, I genuinely don't believe there's a reason to make background checks mandatory on private gun sales. There's no evidence or data to support their effectiveness, much less justify their implementation, and there's no actual way to enforce such a law to begin with. It's basically the honor system all over again.
    It could be enforced. If every gun manufactured in say the US or any being imported to be sold here is required by law to have it's serial number put into a national data base. And I consider myself to be a Gun Rights advocate, but I see no issue with guns being sold or traded after a certain date be licensed. Trying to make it mandatory now for all guns here would be a futile effort however. Too many have already passed under the bridge. :P But I fail to see how a license system for guns would negatively impact those who want to keep and bear arms. As it is now, in my state, if I want to get a carry and conceal permit for a gun, the serial number of the weapon is recorded and background checks are done.

  10. #29510
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    hence my question, can a licensed dealer just sell himself weapons, therfor making company property, private property
    I'm not really reading the entire thread anymore, and this may be answered elsewhere, but;
    A dealer can transfer a firearm from his business inventory to himself (we'll call it private inventory), but if that firearm is then sold within a year, it must be re-entered into the business inventory and sold through the business. After that 1 year, they can sell it as any other private person could. In addition, you cannot mix "private inventory" (the dealers or anyone elses) firearms with the business inventory in a sale place. If Dealer's friend Bob wants to sell guns at Dealers table or on his store shelves, they are Dealer Inventory and must be booked in and out.

    I will not speak to enforcement or anything, just letting you know the actual rules.

  11. #29511
    Quote Originally Posted by TwoNineMarine View Post
    Oh I don't want biometeric readers in weapons themselves.
    Me either but Eric Holder does.

  12. #29512
    Herald of the Titans Roxinius's Avatar
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    http://dailycaller.com/2014/05/06/fa...cter-gun-laws/

    omg i nearly pissed myself laughing at this family of someone who was shot and killed committing armed robbery calling for stricter gun laws and wanting the person who stopped the robbery to be charged how stupid can you be
    Well then get your shit together.
    Get it all together. And put it in a backpack. All your shit. So it’s together. And if you gotta take it somewhere, take it somewhere, you know, take it to the shit store and sell it, or put it in a shit museum, I don’t care what you do, you just gotta get it together.
    Get your shit together

  13. #29513
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roxinius View Post
    http://dailycaller.com/2014/05/06/fa...cter-gun-laws/

    omg i nearly pissed myself laughing at this family of someone who was shot and killed committing armed robbery calling for stricter gun laws and wanting the person who stopped the robbery to be charged how stupid can you be
    "The family of Williams says that Harrison didn’t need to shoot and shouldn’t have felt threatened."

    Well now we know stupidity runs in that family.
    Quote Originally Posted by Imadraenei View Post
    You can find that unbiased view somewhere between Atlantis and that unicorn farm down the street, just off Interstate √(-1).

  14. #29514
    I'm not sure how you avoid feeling threatened when two armed men wearing masks walk into the diner you're eating to rob the place. The best part of that story was the fact it was a younger guy who had his CCP who used deadly force to defend himself and others, pretty much destroying the 'pro gun' stereotype of old white guys belonging to the NRA.

    It's regrettable that someone lost their life, but hey. That's what happens when you choose the life of a criminal.

  15. #29515
    Herald of the Titans Roxinius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaxi View Post
    "The family of Williams says that Harrison didn’t need to shoot and shouldn’t have felt threatened."

    Well now we know stupidity runs in that family.
    so what the family is saying is even though he had a gun he wasn't a threat sounds like that entire gene pool needs to be erased
    Well then get your shit together.
    Get it all together. And put it in a backpack. All your shit. So it’s together. And if you gotta take it somewhere, take it somewhere, you know, take it to the shit store and sell it, or put it in a shit museum, I don’t care what you do, you just gotta get it together.
    Get your shit together

  16. #29516
    Legendary! Jaxi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roxinius View Post
    so what the family is saying is even though he had a gun he wasn't a threat sounds like that entire gene pool needs to be erased
    The threat of violence with a weapon is exactly what makes it an armed robbery to begin with.
    Quote Originally Posted by Imadraenei View Post
    You can find that unbiased view somewhere between Atlantis and that unicorn farm down the street, just off Interstate √(-1).

  17. #29517
    Herald of the Titans Roxinius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaxi View Post
    The threat of violence with a weapon is exactly what makes it an armed robbery to begin with.
    im sure the antis will be along to say he didnt need to kill the guy and backing the family
    Well then get your shit together.
    Get it all together. And put it in a backpack. All your shit. So it’s together. And if you gotta take it somewhere, take it somewhere, you know, take it to the shit store and sell it, or put it in a shit museum, I don’t care what you do, you just gotta get it together.
    Get your shit together

  18. #29518
    Quote Originally Posted by Roxinius View Post
    im sure the antis will be along to say he didnt need to kill the guy and backing the family
    He didn't however shoot the unarmed accomplice even after he tried to grab his gun where as a cop would have.

  19. #29519
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eroginous View Post
    No, they are ineffective because it's impossible to contrast the number of background checks done against the ones that aren't. They are ineffective because it's impossible to know how many denied prohibited persons get guns anyway. They are ineffective because the process stops at the background check instead of being pursued until conviction of prohibited persons. They are ineffective because no police force in any state has the manpower to monitor gun ownership in real time to make sure the laws are being followed. They are ineffective because no data was being collected on the number of private background checks already being done, prior to them becoming mandatory via state/federal law.

    You can cite Colorado's nearly 5k private background checks in 2013 all day, that doesn't change anything I typed out above. Five thousand compared to what? How many private background checks were being done before they became mandatory? How many of those 72 denied persons were actually felons? How many of them did or did not obtain a gun via other means?

    When you talk about effectiveness, you can't just throw out that 5k number and ignore all the other variables in the equation. The total number of guns being privately bought/sold is what's important. Being unable to contrast the before/after on the number of private background checks being done makes the matter entirely moot.
    You either missed the statistic where something in the range of ~110 gun sales are denied per day due to background checks. "We don't know how many of those go ahead and get black market guns" is not an excuse to not make it universal. If you don't know then you don't know, so you have no room to say it is ineffective. The only way you could do that is if you knew every single one of those people denied guns via BGC then went and got one.
    2014 Gamergate: "If you want games without hyper sexualized female characters and representation, then learn to code!"
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  20. #29520
    He didn't however shoot the unarmed accomplice even after he tried to grab his gun where as a cop would have.
    I love it how the guy ended up shooting a bunch of innocent bystanders and injured himself just because he was armed with a gun.

    You either missed the statistic where something in the range of ~110 gun sales are denied per day due to background checks. "We don't know how many of those go ahead and get black market guns" is not an excuse to not make it universal. If you don't know then you don't know, so you have no room to say it is ineffective. The only way you could do that is if you knew every single one of those people denied guns via BGC then went and got one.
    1. That statistic isn't relevant to the context of the current conversation, which is specifically about background checks between private citizens.

    2. I'm not making excuses for why it shouldn't be done. Instead, I'm suggesting that you do it while I'm also pointing out the host of factors that have to go ignored before you can say that Colorado's UBC law was effective at stopping private sales to felons.

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