Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[Shadowferal]

Hmf...see plenty of front lawn signs that say protected by Smith & Wesson, or Glock, or Winchester or . But I never see any "gun-free" house signs.

[sarahtasher]

I'm an NRA member and highly educated, working for a University in the USA.

Skipping all the hyperbole... and when we really get down to it, unstable people need to be in a mental ward.
This was common in the past.
The problem is this is not a politically correct move, and the public doesn't have the stomach for it.

https://www.npr.org/2017/11/30/56747...-health-crisis

Ok, so you would be for comitting to psych wards (hint : they need something called M-O-N-E-Y to operate) the lunatics that listen to Alex Jones and believe that they are sex tunnels beyond pizzeria ?

Or the NRA ''lunatics'', AKA people wondering why someone need 45 different guns ?

[Mullet Man]

Ok, so you would be for comitting to psych wards (hint : they need something called M-O-N-E-Y to operate) the lunatics that listen to Alex Jones and believe that they are sex tunnels beyond pizzeria ?

Or the NRA ''lunatics'', AKA people wondering why someone need 45 different guns ?

You must have missed the part where I said I was skipping the hyperbole.

[sarahtasher]

You must have missed the part where I said I was skipping the hyperbole.

Dumb question, where would you find the money to fund Gotham style asylums ? The US Federal government would actually fork cash for something else than overpriced military hardware ?

''Stealing money from defence contractors'' is what politically incorrect in the USA. What is politically correct is ''support our troops by bumper stickers and parades'', while ''actually paying for the psychological health services they need is not.

[Ghostpanther]

I had an interesting conversation with my college aged Daughter yesterday.

I have the following guns, but they have never been my "thing": 9mm handgun, .243 Hunting Rifle, 10/22 Rifle, M&P15-22, Tactical Shotgun
I shoot them about once every 2 or 3 years for "fun" if friends/family want to go to the range.
I occasionally hunt, but really have no desire to kill a large animal because of all the work involved with processing it.
Guns basically allow me to be social with those that enjoy hunting and shooting more than I do.
The 9mm does stay in the nightstand if needed, but not something I actively think about.

I have never pushed guns on my Daughter, and she has never shown an interest in them.
With the Gun Control march this weekend, the topic came up at home.
She wanted "more gun control" because she is "afraid", but doesn't know any of the current gun control laws.

We had a 2 hour talk.
We talked about the current gun laws in our state and how the purchasing process works.
I read to her the list of individuals that are, by law, restricted from owning or possessing a gun.
We talked the recent shooters and how they got guns.
We talked about the repeated missed red flags of the FBI and Sheriffs in regards to the Parkland shooter.
We talked about her personal safety, and what she can do when she knows her life is in danger and help might not arrive in time.

At the end, I brought out all my guns and let her handle them. Something she has never done before.
It was strange to watch, but I could see her "fear" melt away.
They went from "scary death tools" to just "tools".

Now... She is interested in taking a safety class, getting a small handgun, and a concealed carry permit.

Good story. Excellent example of some truths. There are far more kids dying from drug overdoses each year than from school shootings. Yet we see no large mass scale march on Washington demanding laws to address it to the extent we did this last weekend calling for more gun control. They are being emotionally manipulated by certain groups and media for stricter gun control.

[sarahtasher]

Good story. Excellent example of some truths. There are far more kids dying from drug overdoses each year than from school shootings. Yet we see no large mass scale march on Washington demanding laws to address it to the extent we did this last weekend calling for more gun control. They are being emotionally manipulated by certain groups and media for stricter gun control.

Yes, and people from the NRA or gun cults are TOTALLY not manipulated to be afraid of everything. From ''thugs'' to ''drug dealers'' to ''illegals'' to ''terrorists'' to ''liberals'' to ''democrats'' to ''ecologists'' to ''SJWs'' to ''BLM'', I struggle to find one category of people who are not hardcore republican voters that the usual suspects are not terrorized off. I'm pretty sure that some people would believe that guns allow the sun to rise each day if someone told them on YouTube that heliocentrism is libural.

Remember the rules, folks : if you protest against a school shooting, you are ''uh deluded stoopid SJW''. If you buy Alex Jones manhood protection pills alongside guns because he told you that ''dah gubinment'' is putting chemicals in the water to turn you gay, you are normal and you need to buy more ammo, kauze if you don't it prove that you are not a real man and the gubinment got you.

[Ghostpanther]

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1.) yes they would need to know. But are police capable of thinking like that. Look at the the cop killings etc from last few years.
2.) Not yet. And if teachers need to do it. why not all people?

Because yes we might lower gun shootings in schools. But then it will move to parks, playgrounds, cinema's etc etc etc.
Its a fix that will lower it slightly ( witch is a good thing do not get me wrong see below why). But it will not fix the general problem.

A small fix i must agree with you is still a help.
And i do not think there is a 100% fix for this. And every % is a % that its lower.

Yes, police are capable of making sound judgement decisions. :P The number of unjustified police killings is extremely low when compared to the number of police interactions with criminals and the public in general. They are just the type which gets the most media and outcry from the public when they are unjustified. Which in-itself is understandable, as long as the media and the public keep things in perspective.

Allowing teachers who wish to be armed in class rooms is only a part of what could take place. School districts and parents who do not want such, can vote for other security measures. Metal detectors at entrances and armed security are other steps.

[sarahtasher]

Good story. Excellent example of some truths. There are far more kids dying from drug overdoses each year than from school shootings. Yet we see no large mass scale march on Washington demanding laws to address it to the extent we did this last weekend calling for more gun control. They are being emotionally manipulated by certain groups and media for stricter gun control.

And to be very, very, very blunt, do you know what is BY FAR the most likely deadly use of a gun in America ? Killing yourself.

FTR, gun users, what is amazing is that you seem PERSUADED that owning guns make you superior to the rabble, the ''sheeple'' to take the holy words of Alex Jones. As Parkland proved, a monkey would presumably be able to buy 45 guns in one afternoon in some US states. As guns are apparently quite easy to acquire by stupid people, mentally ill people and criminal people, why exactly owning one make you ''superior'' ? Do you REALLY think that thanks to the NRA, gun owners are a group of elite handpicked citizens ?

(Hint : people without guns are able to read and for instance go check what involve exactly those fabled ''CCW'' courses, the ones that make you part of the elite of gun users and that require in Florida a 2 hour course).

[Mullet Man]

Dumb question, where would you find the money to fund asylums ?

This is not a dumb question, and doesn't have any easy answer.
Voters on each end of the spectrum will likely object to such measures.

Again, this is not a popular proposal for many reasons.
We are talking about incarcerating people that have not committed a crime, but appear to be dangerous.
It is a slippery slope, that we cannot slip down.
You need stable people on each end of the political spectrum to monitor such programs.

Individuals that can only spew loaded hyperbolic statements probably wouldn't be invited.

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Yes, and people from the NRA or gun cults are TOTALLY not manipulated to be afraid of everything. From ''thugs'' to ''drug dealers'' to ''illegals'' to ''terrorists'' to ''liberals'' to ''democrats'' to ''ecologists'' to ''SJWs'' to ''BLM'', I struggle to find one category of people who are not hardcore republican voters that the usual suspects are not terrorized off. I'm pretty sure that some people would believe that guns allow the sun to rise each day if someone told them on YouTube that heliocentrism is libural.

Remember the rules, folks : if you protest against a school shooting, you are ''uh deluded stoopid SJW''. If you buy Alex Jones manhood protection pills alongside guns because he told you that ''dah gubinment'' is putting chemicals in the water to turn you gay, you are normal and you need to buy more ammo, kauze if you don't it prove that you are not a real man and the gubinment got you.

I'm an NRA member.
I'm not terrorized by any group of people.
I have never listed to an Alex Jones podcast.

My parents are Union Democrats.
I'm a Republican.

I have breakfast every Tuesday with my Dad since he retired.

[Ghostpanther]

It got quickly tiresome to me defending defensive gun use. Especially when you realize that you're arguing from someone that lives in a country where defending oneself is considered legally dubious if not outright illegal.

Well, you do a good job of it, so hang in there. At this time, all lawful gun owners need to take a stand for our Constitutional right to defend ourselves with a firearm. As Thomas Jefferson once said, " Liberty requires constant vigilance."

I emailed my State level House Representative about a new bill being proposed which is far too restrictive on gun control and he replied, he would not support any gun bill which restricts more than Ohio does now. People need to stand up for their rights and contact their congressional representatives.

[sarahtasher]

This is not a dumb question, and doesn't have any easy answer.
Voters on each end of the spectrum will likely object to such measures.

Again, this is not a popular proposal for many reasons.
We are talking about incarcerating people that have not committed a crime, but appear to be dangerous.
It is a slippery slope, that we cannot slip down.
You need stable people on each end of the political spectrum to monitor such programs.

Individuals that can only spew loaded hyperbolic statements probably wouldn't be invited.

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I'm an NRA member.
I'm not terrorized by any group of people.
I have never listed to an Alex Jones podcast.

My parents are Union Democrats.
I'm a Republican.

I have Breakfast every Tuesday with my Dad since he retired.

What is exactly hyperbolic in stating that the US of A is too poor to actually provide mental healthcare (hint : it cost a LOT less to have a session with a psychiatrist once a month than being comitted to an asylum) to its veterans right now, making a comprehensive asylum program unlikely ?

Well, unlike the program already in place, which is to send mentally ill people to prison to fix them by being raped by other inmates.

[Ghostpanther]

I just cant get behind the attitude of just going along with what an attacker says. If he demands my wallet, I have no problem handing him my wallet and pin code for ATM cards. However the thinking is the person will just let you go, is that normal status operating procedure, because I have seen many instances where the people have complied with what the person wanted and got killed afterwards anyways. Is there a secret way to know ahead of time that I am missing?

Nope. Only time I would comply is if they have a gun pointed directly at me and are keeping their eye on me. They look away or are distracted enough, out comes my firearm and a quick 3 shots. You need to prepare yourself mentally for such a reaction. This is something they trained us in the Army. Most of the time you will react based on your mental state and practice. People carrying a firearm for self protection need to train for such scenario and not think it will always be like it is on the range. Learn to point and shoot.

[sarahtasher]

Nope. Only time I would comply is if they have a gun pointed directly at me and are keeping their eye on me. They look away or are distracted enough, out comes my firearm and a quick 3 shots. You need to prepare yourself mentally for such a reaction. This is something they trained us in the Army. Most of the time you will react based on your mental state and practice. People carrying a firearm for self protection need to train for such scenario and not think it will always be like it is on the range. Learn to point and shoot.

If a firearm course tells you to try to fire at someone who have a weapon trained you when your weapon is not, this course is training you to look cool in a movie and to look dead in real life.

[Mullet Man]

What is exactly hyperbolic in stating that the US of A is too poor to actually provide mental healthcare (hint : it cost a LOT less to have a session with a psychiatrist once a month than being comitted to an asylum) to its veterans right now, making a comprehensive asylum program unlikely ?

There is nothing hyperbolic about this statement. It is true.

As noted earlier, this wouldn't be popular on either side of the political spectrum.
We are talking about tax payer money being used for incarcerating people that haven't committed a crime.
But I think you would agree, some people on the streets shouldn't be, and we have a mental health crisis in the USA.

[Ghostpanther]

You sidestepped his completely valid point. If you want to have serious discussions, you have stay on topic and not bring up juvenile points that are germane to the discussion.

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I would be interested in seeing what it would cost to place a LEO at each school - not arming teachers or hiring private security - but stationing an officer/deputy at every school.

That kind of solution would be welcome.

(as long as they don't run away from the gun fire, of course)

Na. Zenkai is correct. The attempt to fool someone into thinking you have a firearm, the thought of such a tool could deter a criminal. The tool ( even imaginary or projection of having a real one ) might work. It does on occasion.

I agree armed security guards would be good. Would not be cost free however, as letting teachers be armed would be. But certainly should be a school's consideration who are determined not to allow teachers be armed. There are other methods available also.

[Stormdash]

I'm an NRA member.
I'm not terrorized by any group of people.
I have never listed to an Alex Jones podcast.

My parents are Union Democrats.
I'm a Republican.

I have breakfast every Tuesday with my Dad since he retired.

This is why, with all my passion, I hope that the DNC and its proxies continue to press this lunatic button calling the NRA "terrorists" and "white supremacists", to drive your parents clean out of the party.

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If a firearm course tells you to try to fire at someone who have a weapon trained you when your weapon is not, this course is training you to look cool in a movie and to look dead in real life.

Except only between your ears is this what legitimate defensive gun courses are teaching anyone.

[Ghostpanther]

I disagree with this.
If you are considered an adult in the eyes of the law, you should be afforded all the rights of an adult.
This includes gun ownership, drinking, and voting.

With that said, if they want to move the age of a legal adult up to 21, I'm okay with that.
But ALL the benefits of being an adult also move up to 21.

I also think a third option is available.
A Minor+ age bracket, where some of the rights afforded an adult are earned, by minors between the age of 16-21.

Are you and 4.0 student with 2 years of documented community service at age 16? You get Voting.
Two consecutive 4.0 years and MADD/AA volunteering? You get drinking.
These are just made up examples... but you get the idea.

I wholeheartedly agree with this. You are ether a legal adult or not. At first I thought the ideal of requiring 21 for semi-auto rifle ( which a AR-15 is ) would be ok, since we do it for handguns. So if it is that big of a issue, they need to raise the legal adult age for everything to 21. I changed my position on that. Not that it matters however.

[Mullet Man]

This is why, with all my passion, I hope that the DNC and its proxies continue to press this lunatic button calling the NRA "terrorists" and "white supremacists", to drive your parents clean out of the party.

My folks are stubborn, and would not admit it, but I think this has already occurred.
They are ashamed of the support organization like Antifa are getting within the party, and feel like it is being taken over by the far left.

[Ghostpanther]

In my province, there was ONE, maybe two case in ten years of a robbery leading to death.

Many of us do not live where you do or have a desire to. So your point is invalid for us here. Stay where you are.

[sarahtasher]

This is why, with all my passion, I hope that the DNC and its proxies continue to press this lunatic button calling the NRA "terrorists" and "white supremacists", to drive your parents clean out of the party.

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Except only between your ears is this what legitimate defensive gun courses are teaching anyone.

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