Garrosh is Not the Bad Guy. This is Why.

[docterfreeze]

I originally planned to make this when 5.4 came out but I can't wait that long to prove that garrosh is the good guy

You're probably thinking "Lol, garrosh? Good guy? You have got to be kidding." but please, hear me out!

A. Theramore
First of all, lets just end this whole theramore thing once and for all.

THERAMORE. WAS. A. MILITARY. THREAT. repeat that to yourself as many times as you need to get it through your thick skulls.

Theramore was the biggest threat to orgrimmar in kalimdor. It was the closest alliance establishment. It was known to give alliance supplies to fight the horde. Destroying it was the right thing to do. Mana bomb was the only option because if Garrosh just used a regular bomb, Jaina and Rhonin could simply restore it with time-altering magic. Garrosh's forces had been attacking theramore for about a week, giving civilians more than enough time to evacuate. (Baine also warned theramore about the attack, but i'll talk about Baine later.) If any civilians were left in theramore by the time the bomb was dropped, then it's entirely on Jaina's shoulders for ignoring the many warnings.


B. Other Horde leaders

Vol'jin- You know, I used to actually like this guy... until he became the Alliance's bitch in 5.3...(See his dialogue with alliance players who click him during razor hill scenario)

By now, we should all be familiar with the dialogue between Garrosh and Vol'jin in the troll starting area, or are we? Pay attention to the beginning of the dialogue in particular (CLICK)

"Don't talk back to me, Troll! You know who was left in charge here. Haven't you stopped to ask yourself why Thrall chose me instead of you?

So it seems Vol'jin is a little biased with what he shows in the fire... We can estimate that before this line was stated, Vol'jin was whining about not being chosen by Thrall as warchief and gave Garrosh some backtalk... not a smart move to backtalk the warchief...

Vol'jin then goes on to insult Grom, and after that gives Garrosh a few death threats... what a swell guy!

I understand that Garrosh also threatened to kill Vol'jin, but what would you do if some guy comes into your room, tells you you suck and you shouldn't be in your room,spits on your floor, threatens to murder you, then insults your dead father who sacrificed his life to save your people? Would you offer him some tea and a crumpet?

Lor'themar- Tried to join the Alliance behind Garrosh's back, failed, and is now trying to kill Garrosh. Enough said.


Baine- First lets talk about Cairne,

Cairne, like Vol'jin, got his panties in a twist because Garrosh rolled a 100 and got warchief (jokes)

But really, he got pissy because Garrosh was the new warchief.

Cairne got some false information and thought Garrosh killed some innocent druids, That was the final straw for Cairne, so he challenged Garrosh to an honorable fight to the death. Magatha offered to bless Gorehowl, then she poisoned it. After Garrosh and Cairne fought for a while, Garrosh shattered Cairne's weapon then struck Cairne. Cairne died from the poison, at that moment he realized it was because Magatha poisoned the axe. Cairne realized what happened, Garrosh realized what happened, and Baine realized what happened. Baine held no grudge against Garrosh.

So then Wtf is Baine doing? Helping whiny Vol'jin get his way and in the process, also becoming the Alliance's bitch. Great job Baine...¬_¬

But what is really surprising is that in 5.4 Baine is saying things about "Avenging his father's death".... Does Baine suffer from amnesia? Did he forget it wasn't Garrosh's fault Baine died? If anything, he should be hunting down Magatha! Not helping the rebellion!

Sylvannas- Sylvannas has been really out of character for the duration of Cata and MoP. Shes supposed to act like a cunning, vengeful, leader of the forsaken!... but she acts like a sarcastic, rebellious, teenager. Gilneas and the conversation between her and Garrosh are good examples. In gilneas, she is ordered NOT to plague the city... what does she do right after the orc leaves the room? Order her troops to blight the city.

Garrosh does not want sylvanas to use the val'kyr to raise the dead, but she does anyways. Like I said, rebellious teenager.

Now she is with the rebels in trying to kill Garrosh. Rebellious. Teenager.


C. The Heart

To understand why Garrosh is using the heart isn't bad, you must understand that Garrosh is only using to to survive the rebellion and defeat the alliance. It's really the only way he stands a chance. He has the whole world zerg rushing him, and you expect him to just gather the remaining riff raff and wing it? No, it's not possible.


D. Last-Minute Story-Altering Bullshit

The Blank Scroll- What this story says is that Garrosh pretty much wants to destroy all living things on azeroth except orcs. We all know this simply isn't true. Throughout all of Cataclysm and MoP Garrosh has been trying to do what is best for the Horde. All other races of the horde have betrayed the warchief, leaving only orcs. However, the Horde cannot exist with only Orcs, otherwise it would just be called "The Orcs." The True Horde would need allies, perhaps their are species we have not discovered yet that would like to be allies with the true Horde? Who knows? But anyways, destroying all other living species would totally contradict what Garrosh has been trying to accomplish this whole time.


Theramore Captives As shown in another thread, SoO now has NPCs names something along the lines of "Theramore Captive"

There's just one problem, no where in the books, game, or any other lore sources does it say/show Garrosh taking Theramore citizens as prisoners. I call bullshit on you, Blizz.


That covers it for now, if you think I missed anything or have a counter argument, let me know and i'll gladly disprove it.

[Littleraven]

hmm....soo....garrosh essentially becoming the hitler of WoW makes him not a bad guy? sorry no. i know that garrosh has ambitions. hell i can kinda agree that the guy just want to make his people superior.

but garrosh hasnt cared about his people for a while now. he cares about himself and the vision he has for azeroth. hes a power hungry lunatic that needs to be put down. seeing all the innocents hes killed in orgrimmar alone can attest to that.

[Tierbook]

is that why he kidnapped children from Theramore?

[Resentful]

A Garrosh fanatic and even has his avatar cmon OP I can't take you seriously. He became an evil douchebag end of story

[KrazyK923]

A. Theramore
First of all, lets just end this whole theramore thing once and for all.

THERAMORE. WAS. A. MILITARY. THREAT. repeat that to yourself as many times as you need to get it through your thick skulls.

Theramore was the biggest threat to orgrimmar in kalimdor. It was the closest alliance establishment. It was known to give alliance supplies to fight the horde. Destroying it was the right thing to do. Mana bomb was the only option because if Garrosh just used a regular bomb, Jaina and Rhonin could simply restore it with time-altering magic. Garrosh's forces had been attacking theramore for about a week, giving civilians more than enough time to evacuate. (Baine also warned theramore about the attack, but i'll talk about Baine later.) If any civilians were left in theramore by the time the bomb was dropped, then it's entirely on Jaina's shoulders for ignoring the many warnings.

Stopped reading after this. Go look at the Theramore prisoners in Orgrimmar who are crying over their children Garrosh had taken. The civilians were taken away on transports. Its clear Garrosh gained control of a transport and took them to Orgrimmar. In the raid they are fighting one another (Presumably for the Orcs' amusement) and their children are also seemingly in Orgrimmar.

I'd say nice try, but I don't think it was.

[docterfreeze]

hmm....soo....garrosh essentially becoming the hitler of WoW makes him not a bad guy? sorry no. i know that garrosh has ambitions. hell i can kinda agree that the guy just want to make his people superior.

but garrosh hasnt cared about his people for a while now. he cares about himself and the vision he has for azeroth. hes a power hungry lunatic that needs to be put down. seeing all the innocents hes killed in orgrimmar alone can attest to that.

Thanks for your opinion on the title, but what do you think of the actual post?

- - - Updated - - -

Stopped reading after this. Go look at the Theramore prisoners in Orgrimmar who are crying over their children Garrosh had taken.

I actually talk about that at the very bottom. Check it out.

[KrazyK923]

I actually talk about that at the very bottom. Check it out.

Its in the game. Its canon. Your argument is invalid.

There are other arguments I could make, like how Garrosh is blatantly racist to other members of the Horde, but I don't care enough to since the post clearly either is ignoring the actual story or is a joke.

[docterfreeze]

Its in the game. Its canon. Your argument is invalid.

A singing sunflower is also in the game, is it canon?

[Arkenaw]

I still laugh at the argument that Theramore was a military target. Jaina was the most peaceful leader in the entire world.

[Resentful]

A singing sunflower is also in the game, is it canon?

That was a lame counter really a singing sunflower?

[Rackfu]

Theramore Captives As shown in another thread, SoO now has NPCs names something along the lines of "Theramore Captive"

There's just one problem, nowhere in the books, game, or any other lore sources does it say/show Garrosh taking Theramore citizens as prisoners. I call bullshit on you, Blizz.

Ummmmm... Wouldn't NPC's in the game named Theramore Captive saying things like "they have my children" be considered "IN THE GAME"

[Salted Beef]

Theramore frequently hosted diplomatic summits between the Horde and Alliance, and shelted Baine when Thunder Bluff was under siege by the very same Grimtotem that diminished Garrosh's ability and honor during the Mak'gora.

In response, Garrosh wrote a strongly worded letter, allowing Tauren civilians to continue dying, while the Steamwheedle Cartel--a neautral party--saved the day. This is why Baine continues to question Garrosh's commitment to the Horde.

[Deathpath]

in before trask

[TheRagebear]

I agreed up until you brought up the Heart. It all goes back to Blizzard's inability to make a convincing villain without over the top BS and "corruption/insanity."

Look at Staghelm for example.

He was always kind of a jerk, and I think a lot of people felt bad for him and understood why he was so bitter after learning about Silithus and the events that took place there. But he wanted to make night elf society more militant to stand against the Horde, a view which Tyrande opposed, putting the two of them at odds.

Now I'm not sure what changed, but at some point Blizzard & Co. decided that Staghelm had to be the bad guy. Now he could attempt a coup, but let's be honest, a lot of sensible people would have wanted to side with him. So how did they fix that problem? By destroying every likable aspect of his character via corruption/insanity!

He was actually being commanded by Xavius because lol he's a tree now that makes sense and then sided with Ragnaros because lol that makes sense, just like Garrosh suddenly forgets what happened to Grom and decides to use some obviously corrupt heart and kidnap children.

[Maxilian]

Sylvannas- Sylvannas has been really out of character for the duration of Cata and MoP. Shes supposed to act like a cunning, vengeful, leader of the forsaken!... but she acts like a sarcastic, rebellious, teenager. Gilneas and the conversation between her and Garrosh are good examples. In gilneas, she is ordered NOT to plague the city... what does she do right after the orc leaves the room? Order her troops to blight the city.

Garrosh does not want sylvanas to use the val'kyr to raise the dead, but she does anyways. Like I said, rebellious teenager.

Now she is with the rebels in trying to kill Garrosh. Rebellious. Teenager.

Really?

First, Garrosh pushed the forsakens to attack Gilneas

Second, Sylvanas was losing ground and she used the plague as her main weapon, if she hadn't used it she would have lost

Third, The Forsaken can't procreate, so they need a way to create more forsaken, even more if they are in war, so they use the Valkyrs as a way to "procreate"

How the fuck does Garrosh pretends the forsaken win a war when:

1-He push them to fight the Worgen when they already have others enemies in front of them (Scarlet Crusade and the Alliance -Remenber that the Eastern Kingdom is where the biggest alliance forces are-)

2-He takes their main weapon (the plague)

3-Make they constantly lose soldiers without letting them add people to replace the fallen ones

(I'm pretty sure everyone else have said enought about the others points)

[checking facts]

There's just one problem, no where in the books, game, or any other lore sources does it say/show Garrosh taking Theramore citizens as prisoners. I call bullshit on you, Blizz.

the boat with civilians was going to gadgetzan.

the first thing that happens when you start MoP's first quest is that you see nazgrim telling garrosh about victories on the coasts of tanaris and tol'barad.

victory in tanaris = the capture civilians

it was there since the beginning, of the expansion, in game. it was just hidden.

[Rathnor The Flesher]

The sooner you can come to accept the fact that Garrosh is morally reprehensible (by human standards), the sooner you can truly appreciate what a great Warchief he is!

[docterfreeze]

Ummmmm... Wouldn't NPC's in the game named Theramore Captive saying things like "they have my children" be considered "IN THE GAME"

A lot of things in the game are also not canon.

[MadamSerenity]

It's Blizz's game. Therefore, anything in game is canon. The singing sunflower doesn't have shit to do with the STORY of the game. The children from Theramore do. Garrosh is an ass. Get over it.

[Resentful]

The sooner you can come to accept the fact that Garrosh is morally reprehensible (by human standards), the sooner you can truly appreciate what a great Warchief he is!

[IMG]http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r147/Panzerchrek/artwork-garrosh-hellscream-full_zps447ba7eb.jpg[/IM]

Bloodshed is amazing but meaningless bloodshed is not and killing your allies is not my idea of a Warchief.