Why couldn't the Lich King kill Kil'jaeden or maybe even Sargeras?

[Wildmoon]

I thought the reason that The Lich King was caged in the Frozen Throne was because even Kil'Jaeden feared the monster he had just created, and didn't want him to get out of control.

Then, when Ner'Zhul merged with Arthas, the Lich King became vastly more powerful than before. And then again, Frostmourn takes souls and those souls feed the Lich King's power. There is no telling how powerful the Lich King was before his defeat. I do know that he was able to snuff the lifes out of Azeroth's greatest heroes after playing with them for ten minutes. Even Deathwing couldn't do that.

As for The Lich King vs Deathwing. The Lich King plays with his soon to be new toys for 10 minutes before killing you, and in reality the Light is the only thing that defeats the Lich King. Deathwing is actually held at bay by the heroes. Though the heroes couldn't have defeated Deathwing without the Dragonsoul, they were still able to delay his casting of the second Cataclysm.

If The Lich King had wanted to kill you, and Tirion, he could and would have without even breaking a sweat. His own arrogance and the Light are what brought him down.

I say this because I think that The Lich King is by far the most powerful being that the heroes have fought thus far. The Old God's were slain with some minor health, Illidan was slain with the help of only one other mortal. Deathwing was held back long enough for Thrall to do his Goku impersonation to kill him. The Lich King? It took the full force of the Light to defeat him, and that was only enough to shatter Frostmourne and dispell a lot of the Lich King's power.

I think you are pretty confused. The reason Kil'jaeden wanted to get rid of LK was that he was afraid that LK got out of his control and could mess up legion's plan. It was nothing personal. What you do to your creation that doesn't do what it's supposed to do? destroy it. That's what KJ tried to do but Malfurion ultimately ruined his plan. Malfurion has actually been torn in the legion's side since the ancient time. Legion lords hate Mal with passion. DW was also much more powerful than LK. Mortals like us couldn't even touch him if not for 4 aspects combined and the most powerful artifact in Azeroth. DW even survived DS's shot. LK was killed by Tirion with Ashbringer. He retreated because of poision gas. He was pushed back at Light's hope. I am sure he would be burned to ash by DS's shot. DW has dominion over earth and deep place of Azeroth. He could actually break the world.

[TJ]

I think you are pretty confused. The reason Kil'jaeden wanted to get rid of LK was that he was afraid that LK got out of his control and could mess up legion's plan. It was nothing personal. What you do to your creation that doesn't do what it's supposed to do? destroy it. That's what KJ tried to do but Malfurion ultimately ruined his plan. Malfurion has actually been torn in the legion's side since the ancient time. Legion lords hate Mal with passion. DW was also much more powerful than LK. Mortals like us couldn't even touch him if not for 4 aspects combined and the most powerful artifact in Azeroth. DW even survived DS's shot. LK was killed by Tirion with Ashbringer. He retreated because of poision gas. He was pushed back at Light's hope. I am sure he would be burned to ash by DS's shot. DW has dominion over earth and deep place of Azeroth. He could actually break the world.

Now this I can agree with, but I'm out now.

[Deleted]

There was no religion bashing in this. He didn't bash any religion. People freak out now in this forum everytime someone just mentions god. It was a good example to show that it's really hard to argue whose powers are stronger when we're talking about fictional characters. Even when you say someone is all-powerful, it's not really something humans can really comprehend, because it seems to be impossible.

The new moderators are a joke. Like 5 or 6 of such mistakes came to my attention in the last few days.

[Raeion]

lich king still remains 1 of the best bosses i can remember his voice his big mouth i love it

Yeah man , every time i go to slay his unholy majesty I /kneel , His might and power are indeed overwhelming.
Oh Arthas you baby please come back (((

[Anjerith]

While it is important to remember that the Lich King is *faaaar* from the most powerful lore character in WoW, he is also the most well represented in the actual games up until the end of WotLK. Yes, he was only in War3 and tFT, but the first chapter of either of those titles contained more story telling elements than both Warcraft and War2 and its expansion. The aftereffects of his campaign were also the longest lasting in player eyes (The Forsaken and all that jazz).


So while he isn't such of a much for those of us that know the deep lore, the number of players that only know what is openly shown to them are going to see Arthas as the top dog.

[bionics]

The Old God's were slain with some minor health,

For the umpteenth time, C'Thun and Yogg-Saron were only glimpses at the Old Gods and their power. It's unfair to make a claim like that since we are unsure what else their pantheon consists of or the true scope of their power.

From WoWWiki: "In the novel The Sundering, it is hinted that the Old Gods are more powerful than the Titans, including even Sargeras. It is said that they are extremely powerful and that the combined might of many Titans are required to subdue them. It is also stated that if they are freed, even Sargeras will plead for peace of death. This is further supported by their statement that little effort is needed to destroy Sargeras and turn his Burning Legion into their minions."

[SodiumChloride]

Amazing the topic went on for so long.

LK is nothing. Tirion nearly kicked his ass at Light Hope. The Forsaken plague brought him to his knees. Frostmourne < Ashbringer, given that it got shattered by it. Ashbringer is just some paladin sword make by the dwarves and their skill is nowhere near that of the Titians.

For the umpteenth time, C'Thun and Yogg-Saron were only glimpses at the Old Gods and their power. It's unfair to make a claim like that since we are unsure what else their pantheon consists of or the true scope of their power.

From WoWWiki: "In the novel The Sundering, it is hinted that the Old Gods are more powerful than the Titans, including even Sargeras. It is said that they are extremely powerful and that the combined might of many Titans are required to subdue them. It is also stated that if they are freed, even Sargeras will plead for peace of death. This is further supported by their statement that little effort is needed to destroy Sargeras and turn his Burning Legion into their minions."

But that doesn't really tell us much about the state of the Old Gods now. They could really be only a fraction of their former power, after being beaten to near death by the Titians - even if they were released. The Titians actually have contingency plans should the Old Gods get loose. Yupe, "nuke the it from orbit, it's the only way to be sure".

[Deleted]

I do know that he was able to snuff the lifes out of Azeroth's greatest heroes after playing with them for ten minutes. Even Deathwing couldn't do that.

Deathwing made demons feel fear. That's something the Lich King never achieved. See? I can do the same thing.

Although honestly, the Lich King if left unchecked would've been something the Burning Legion would come to fear. The Scourge was made specifically to fight the Burning Legion. And the mortal races just f*cked it up. And the Lich King would only get stronger and stronger over time.

But roughly the same can be said about Deathwing. He's smart enough to manipulate people into creating the Dragon Soul. The single most powerful weapon to ever exist. And later he got super-charged by the Old Gods to be even powerful without it.

It's hard to tell which was the most powerful. But since the Lich King relied a lot on his army, I think Deathwing is more powerful. Deathwing could probably one shot the Lich King. Breaking the world isn't nothing. Thrall needed the Dragon Soul and the alteration of time itself to defeat Deathwing. And basically the Dragon Soul is on par with Deathwing's power, that's why it needed multiple hits to succeed.

I think the end bosses of expansions have only been getting stronger and stronger, lore-wise. But MoP will break this tradition. Even a Sha-infused Garrosh isn't on par with the Lich King or Deathwing. Maybe it's on par with Illidan, who knows.

[Primaliron]

Deathwing made demons feel fear. That's something the Lich King never achieved. See? I can do the same thing.

Although honestly, the Lich King if left unchecked would've been something the Burning Legion would come to fear. The Scourge was made specifically to fight FOR the Burning Legion. And the mortal races just f*cked it up. And the Lich King would only get stronger and stronger over time.

But roughly the same can be said about Deathwing. He's smart enough to manipulate people into creating the Dragon Soul. The single most powerful weapon to ever exist. And later he got super-charged by the Old Gods to be even powerful without it.

It's hard to tell which was the most powerful. But since the Lich King relied a lot on his army, I think Deathwing is more powerful. Deathwing could probably one shot the Lich King. Breaking the world isn't nothing. Thrall needed the Dragon Soul and the alteration of time itself to defeat Deathwing. And basically the Dragon Soul is on par with Deathwing's power, that's why it needed multiple hits to succeed.

I think the end bosses of expansions have only been getting stronger and stronger, lore-wise. But MoP will break this tradition. Even a Sha-infused Garrosh isn't on par with the Lich King or Deathwing. Maybe it's on par with Illidan, who knows.

Fixed. The Lich King (Ner'zul) was created by Kil'Jaeden to serve the Legion in it's third attempt to invade Azeroth (War of the Anicents being 1 and the invasion of the Horde being 2). I was going to write a big long thing detailing why Sargeras makes the LK look like an infant, but the fact is you should read up on him. Frostmourne is nasty, but Gorribal is a manifestation of the darkness in hearts of all that lives. His Avatar is probably as powerful as the LK alone. Kil'Jaeden is no lightweight either, and frankly he could crush the LK in a straight battle, the problem is he'd have to have invested in a major invasion to fight to Scourge which would give the rest of Azeroth time to gather forces. the LK was a tactical thorn in the side, not an outright threat.

---------- Post added 2013-01-06 at 12:29 PM ----------

Amazing the topic went on for so long.

LK is nothing. Tirion nearly kicked his ass at Light Hope. The Forsaken plague brought him to his knees. Frostmourne < Ashbringer, given that it got shattered by it. Ashbringer is just some paladin sword make by the dwarves and their skill is nowhere near that of the Titians.



But that doesn't really tell us much about the state of the Old Gods now. They could really be only a fraction of their former power, after being beaten to near death by the Titians - even if they were released. The Titians actually have contingency plans should the Old Gods get loose. Yupe, "nuke the it from orbit, it's the only way to be sure".

The Ashbringer was forged from a crystal of pure shadow that came from Draenor and turned into pure light when a holy spell was cast upon it. This has given to speculation that it is a piece of a Naaru that was forced into shadow state (by the crash at Oshu'gun most likely). Another suspect would be an Ata'mal crystal.

Notably in Light's Hope Chapel some dialogue can be overheard that the sword wasn't really that special (I think it's Eligor saying it), but that Alexandros Mograine was the source of the power many attributed to the sword. Tirion shattering Frostmourne with the Ashbriner may be a testament to the purity of his connection to the holy light, as is implied with Mograine. Of course Eligor could be full of crap.

[Swineflew]

You guys are getting way to hung up on LKs origins. It's very common for the teacher to surpass his master.

[Primaliron]

You guys are getting way to hung up on LKs origins. It's very common for the teacher to surpass his master.

Only when the master actually teaches the student. The LK never learned anything as much as he was granted powers that are also available to several Dreadlords. Ner'zhul was actually the master who was trumped by his student at one point (Gul'dan). He also failed to escape KJ and that's why he was imprisoned in the Frozen Throne as a disembodied spirit. Arthas, far from surpassing his master, fell into corruption because he lacked the basic discipline to become a truly great Paladin.

Less raw power and two personalities prone to personal recklessness and ineptitude..... Not gonna surpass 25,000+years of experience and far more raw power in a few short years. If he had infinite time to gather resources and power, sure it's possible, but he has a hell of a long way to go.