What should be done to DKs in the future patch?

[Deleted]

In my opinion (and this mostly pvp oriented):

1. Defensive cooldown. Give a defensive cooldown for unholy and frost DKs. Icebound fortitude could be replaced with something like an ability called frost giant that would go something like this. "Become a berserking frost giant and generate your own weapon of pure ice making you immune for disarm. This would increases your damage by 10%, reduces all the damage done to you by 40% and make you immune to stun (but not for snare) for 10-15 seconds. 3 minute cooldown" The same thing for unholy. It would also only be usable in desired presence and couldn't be used at least with pillar of frost. I don't know if this would be too overpowerd or not but at least it would do the trick.

2. If number one gets through reduce the damage of obliterate slightly.

3. Make purgatory passive for blood and replace the talent with something else.

4. Make the unholy pet stun not to cost energy and disable its global cooldown.

5. Less stacks required for unholy infusion. I'm suggesting 3. Also fix the incapability of the pet using its brain regarding movement.

Pve is fine, I think? The most mandatory thing right now for us would be something that would keep us alive without a pocket healer. What are your suggestions?

General thoughts so far:
No rune cost for utility spells like strangulate, pillar of frost
Buff Icebound Fortitude - No runic power cost and increase the reduction
Revamp tot and motf - make DW and 2h more alike
Boneshields for everyone!!
Make the talents more interesting
Add raid utility for blood DKs
Nerf burst, more survivability

[Deleted]

3. Make purgatory passive for blood and replace the talent with something else.
[...]
Pve is fine, I think?

I'd like to see more raid utility for blood Death Knights. We could definitely use some kind of cooldown that would heal, or protect some people. Maybe bring Hysteria back ? At this point, anything would be great.

Purgatory as a passive is an idea. Then they could maybe use that spot for some kind of utility talent.

[Thorios]

I just don't want them to nerf Obliterate, but i feel it's gonna be inevitable at some point with the burst nerf crusade.

[Deleted]

Make unholy/frost Dks a ranged dps which uses the same armor as holy paladins? would be interesting to see.
Well maybe not next patch, but in the future.

[Nillo]

I want some better damage scaling for blood boil and/or it granting blood shield in some way :O

[bals]

I'd be pretty happy if they removed the RP cost from IBF and maybe make it 25%.
the rp cost is fairly annoying though for unholy/frost. maybe even just make a glyph that removes the cost.

imo though most talent tiers could use some reworking.
t1, t2, t4, t5 (just make them more similar)
honestly think t5 is a really boring tier. should just make something baseline and give everyone blood tap back and make this tier something else

[dgiras]

Easy
PvP wise:
Chilbains passive for frost, the unholy ground for UH
Give us a stun and dont mess it with our speed buffs.
All classes have a seperate talent line with their movement while we have a stun a snare and a speed increase all together.
For Def Bone shield passive to all.

[AndyF1069]

Ghoul cooldown for unholy absolutely has to go.

The runic power cost of icebound fortitude needs to be removed for frost and unholy and we could go as far as improving the damage it mitigates as well although maybe not up to the same 50% as blood since it lasts 12 seconds.

I've stated in the other thread that with the runic power removal of the gargoyle removed, having DT as 3 stacks for unholy will probably be too strong. We'll have him popped much quicker now (assuming you start off a raid with the gargoyle and usually unholy frenzy too) and for those who pool runic power correctly, he'll just about be transformed at all times once the initial one is used. Something such as an automatic transformation would be more suitable than lowering the stacks.

Unholy needs better on demand aoe - I've suggested blood boil using both blood and frost runes for unholy only (combined with the expanded reaping) or making dnd 10 seconds or a new ability entirely. In sustained aoe, we're pretty insane since our diseases themselves don't suffer from aoe diminishing return.

With on demand diseases from target switching for unholy as well as gary scaling with mastery, unholy and frost will be much closer together now so we don't need any drastic changes, just a little more tweaking. (this comment is for pve dps numbers)

As far as defense goes, if we ignore icebound fortitude and our tier 2 talents, dk dps have just about nothing. We have death strike which consumes 2 runes (followed by rune cooldown), ams (useless for melee) and icebound fortitude (20% damage reduction on a 3 minute cooldown)

Other melee classes provide much more

Warriors - Die by the sword (100% parry chance, 20% damage reduction) - heroic leap - intervene - rallying cry - banners - A self healing talent tier, a group utility tier, a defensive aoe tier (slow, root and interrupt) - stamina and attack power buff - a ranged silence (pve), armor reduction - an aoe fear - a disarm - a snare

Rogues - Self stealth - Group stealth - attack speed buff - sap and blind cc - cloak of shadows (removes dots and immunity for 5 seconds) - disarm - evasion (50% dodge chance) - armor debuff (worse than warriors, but still there) - feint (50% aoe damage reduction) - gouge (disorient) - two stuns - smoke bomb - tricks of the trade - Vanish - Sprint

Paladins (non holy) - Stats buff - Mastery buff - Divine protection (damage reduction, 1 min cooldown) - repentance cc - stun - ability to heal others - immunity to movement imparing effects to your target (25 second cooldown) - Target immune to physical damage (big cooldown) - Transfer 30% of damage from your target to yourself (2 minute cooldown) - Ability to remove a targets threat for 10 seconds - Lay on hands (full hp heal) - a movement speed boosting tier - The ability to HoT/absorb others or yourself (talents) - Ability to remove all imparing effects on yourself with no cooldown (ret only, high mana cost) - group silence protection and aoe damage reduction - immunity bubble

I'm skipping monks since I'm unfamilair with them

Now lets look at Death knights

Attack power buff - Melee haste buff - ams - chains of ice - path of frost - Dark Simulacrum (very rare group utility in pve) - Death grip - Necrotic strike (very uncommon in pve) - ranged silence with a resource cost - army of the dead - AMZ which must be taken out of a tier tree which offers no other group utility - level 90 group utility buffs (stun, aoe grip and desecrated ground).

Blood offers nothing that the dps don't already offer and lacks the attack speed buff. The only thing blood has to offer are bloodworms. We used to be able to heal party members for 5% hp, but not anymore.

We're very clearly underperforming compared to the other melee. We offer just about no group utility (not including buffs) other than death grip and level 90 talents (which most often do not help on a boss battle).

Instead of crying for buffs, there are some very simple things we can get which make sense to us

Off the top of my head

Crit chance buff
Blood dks providing stamina to the group
Dps dks providing the 12% armor reduction
Make AMZ baseline, replace it with another talent for the tier
Provide a group utilty (other than amz or 90 tier talents) that all death knights have access to. Don't care if other classes provide it or not

*edit* I would also like to see conversion modified so that it provides a self hot that lasts longer based off the amount of runic power used to power it (just like a rogues recuperate length based off combo points). We sacrifice damage for survival which is a fair trade.

[Deleted]

bone shield for all.
decreases 20% damage done to you,
attackers get hit back by the bones for 20% of the damage done and reduces healing by 50% for x seconds.

spell lasts x seconds. 2/3min cd.

^i see this being useful.

[Beefkow]

bone shield for all.
decreases 20% damage done to you,
attackers get hit back by the bones for 20% of the damage done and reduces healing by 50% for x seconds.

spell lasts x seconds. 2/3min cd.

^i see this being useful.

Or.. it can be just like WOTLK.

Talents need revamp.

Get rid of raise dead cd (or reduce to 1 min).

[Dossou]

For PvP, IBF needs to either be a bigger wall or a shorter CD. Or we need another CD like Skin.
Chillbains should be baseline for Frost.
Death's Advance should work like Freedom, but maybe make it dispellable. Also remove the can't be slowed below whatever % if it works like freedom.

PvE

Frost is 100% fine in my opinion.
Unholy needs a scaling buff.
Blood is 100% fine.

[Clash the DK]

A few have mentioned having Chilblains made baseline for Frost or even across the board. I don't think that's a good idea. Sometimes you may not want to slow the mob(s) you're fighting. A better idea, although more work, would be to do this:

~ Make the Chilblains snare(slow) into a glyph.
~ Then, we delete CoI all together.
~ And then, we create a new baseline ability that roots your target and costs 1 Unholy rune. Imagine skeletal arms reaching out of the ground and holding your target in place. While this would have little to no effect on 2H Frost, it would be a very nice QoL improvement for DW Frost. But most importantly, it would be a huge help for Unholy.

I'm sure that they could find something interesting to replace Chilblains in the talent grid. So, I won't go into ideas for a replacement talent.

[Iso]

Some raid utility, otherwise I like it so far, atleast with the current 5.2 build in mind.

Make Bone Shield baseline perhaps?

[Itisamuh]

I think the tools a DK has are fine, to be honest. From a PvP perspective, I think all that needs changed is to make their CDs shorter.

[Clash the DK]

Oh and, we need Soul Reaper adjusted so that it is more functional and fun.

~ Reduce the time delay of the damage from 5 seconds to 3.
~ With the above change in mind, we can just prevent SR from being used above 35%.
~ And finally, Shadowfrost Damage please!

[NatePsy]

Maybe bring Hysteria back ? At this point, anything would be great.

Hysteria gave 20% damage increase, it didn't heal/protect either, your hp was drained by 1-2% every second the entire time it was on you. It wasn't removed, it was simply changed and put into Unholy, it is known as Unholy Frenzy now.

[matthias9742]

PvE

Frost is 100% fine in my opinion.
Unholy needs a scaling buff.
Blood is 100% fine.

I disagree with blood being 100% fine. I would say we are closer to about 80% since we bring zero utility to a raid. If we had the old T13 bonus for vamp blood with a smaller %, the old rune tap glyph, and AMZ baseline I might be inclined to agree.

[Dossou]

I disagree with blood being 100% fine. I would say we are closer to about 80% since we bring zero utility to a raid. If we had the old T13 bonus for vamp blood with a smaller %, the old rune tap glyph, and AMZ baseline I might be inclined to agree.

Druids don't bring any raid utility and they're fine.
Tanks don't need a raid CD to be viable.

[Deleted]

Hysteria gave 20% damage increase, it didn't heal/protect either, your hp was drained by 1-2% every second the entire time it was on you. It wasn't removed, it was simply changed and put into Unholy, it is known as Unholy Frenzy now.

First, let me say that Unholy Frenzy does not feel like Hysteria at all to me. It might kinda work the same way, but it does not have the same feeling. Hysteria was all like ... BOOM ! UF is kinda meh. You don't even feel it's there.

Also, I know that it doesn't heal, or protect ... I don't understand what you're trying to say here. I was just throwing random ideas to underline the fact that (to me, at least) anything would just be fine, as long as we get to bring a little bit of utility to the raid as blood.

Thing is, I don't really see a Death Knight being protective over his or her mates. I always felt these guys are kinda selfish, and when they give you something, it has to have some flaws.

Druids don't bring any raid utility and they're fine.
Tanks don't need a raid CD to be viable.

Druids bring tranquility, symbiosis (which can lead to more healing, more tanking cooldowns and whatnot) and a very good raidwide sprint.

This is utility, and at this point honestly, anything would be just great. I secretely hope they'll get us rid of the bloodworms and add a real cooldown one day. These guys just can't heal at the right moment/place anyway.

[Hunterpower]

Probably nerf burst, buff survivablity and more mobility. (talking about frost, unholy just plain needs buffs)