PvE/PvP Race Inquisition

[Dusteyy]

I am a well geared arcane PvE mage and Fire PvP mage. My current race is Undead. I am looking for the class that will best suit my needs in both of these areas. I feel like I am gimping myself of dps in PvE when there are classes that perform just as well in PvP other than UD. My biggest beef with UD is simply that I feel that Cannibalize is a completely useless racial and is a waste of dps and utility.

Please vote and state your reasoning for such a vote as to why the racials of that selection are better than the others. I am really interested in your guys' input!

Thanks.

[DreamSpyre]

Honestly, Will of the Forsaken is awesome, and Touch of the Grave isn't as much of a PvE loss as you'd expect, and the extra damage/healing in arena is awesome.

Trolls the best PvE Race period, but no PvP benefit really as you aren't really going to get that much freecasting off against any decent teams.

Orc stun reduction is still nice, and Blood fury can be a nice addition to a burst. PvE Blood Fury is just kinda meh.

Goblins just aren't great, Rocket Jump you'd think would be nice, but it's pretty miserable, especially if you're slowed at the time of using it.

Blood Elf is terrible for PvE, but the extra silence is really nice for locking down healers.

Ultimately, I'd definitely choose UD if both PvE and PvP were equally important to me.

[mrgreenthump]

I do wonder whats up with this being horde only, but yee..

It really depends which you weight more, orcs stun reduction is quite nice for pvp, but it will really only apply in the top end pvp, but by then undead is a really good choice for WotF, cause all the fear comps..

As for PvE, Troll is just miles and miles ahead of everything.. goblin aint bad either if you are stacking haste..

Edit: oh and as DreamSpyre said.. Undead racial for PvE is in no ways useless.. so overall if you wanna be real good in pvp and still somewhat ok in pve.. undead would be the choice

[LocNess]

Touch of the grave scales with mastery, just throwing that out there.

[Dusteyy]

Okay, well lets weigh the pro's and con's of say Troll vs UD:

UD:
1) Cannibalize is completely and utterly USELESS
2) WotF shares a 45 second CD with your regular PvP trinket which really sucks in most cases. Depending on comp, you may not even be able to use both which makes one or the other useless.
3) ToTG hits for nothing in PvP and is simply "meh" in PvE when compared to things like Blood Fury or Beserking during AP/On use trinkets blown burn phases.

Troll:
1) Beserking makes this the PvE master race, but has no real impact on PvP fire. I do have a question here, does Beserking affect the GCD? As fire I have a combo that I try to get off in a very short period of time and if Beserking makes the GCD shorter that would be huge.
2) 15% shorter movement imparing is kindof useless as a mage since we can blink out of most all snares/roots.
3) Health regen is w/e.

To me, in looking at these, the pros for Troll in PvE carry over better into PvP than the pros for UD in PvP carry over into PvE (if that makes any sense). Anyone disagree or have a point to share that I might be missing on this?

[announced]

troll is decent for berserking.. it used to be ownage kickass with fire pve with combustion at 100%... now its not as sweet but still decent for arcane burst... u can line up alter time with berserking to add a longer duration out of it.

[mrgreenthump]

troll is decent for berserking.. it used to be ownage kickass with fire pve with combustion at 100%... now its not as sweet but still decent for arcane burst... u can line up alter time with berserking to add a longer duration out of it.

Well tbh I for 1 think it would be crazier for arcane if it werent for your AB cast time capping on hero if your got more than 10k haste rating..

[reflection]

Didn't you forget about the pandaren here? I think +300 int throughout fight is pretty amazing at least in pvp I'm not much of a PvP Player so I have no idea here.

[mrgreenthump]

Didn't you forget about the pandaren here? I think +300 int throughout fight is pretty amazing at least in pvp I'm not much of a PvP Player so I have no idea here.

I have a feeling you made a typo there, but ye 300 int is ok in PvE, but its still only 300 int and your have to have an expensive food buff to gain the max benefit..

[Deleted]

Troll is best for PvE, Undead is best for PvP.

Undead is decent in PvE (TotG isn't bad); Troll is bollocks for PvP.

Overall the best if you're holding both equally is definitely Undead, slight PvE preference and Orc might be better and full PvE preference Troll is best.

[Dusteyy]

Troll is best for PvE, Undead is best for PvP.

Undead is decent in PvE (TotG isn't bad); Troll is bollocks for PvP.

Overall the best if you're holding both equally is definitely Undead, slight PvE preference and Orc might be better and full PvE preference Troll is best.

Beserking affects the GCD which is HUGE for PvP fire. I wouldnt say "bollocks" is the proper word for it. I would also say that TotG is pretty useless. Does maybe 200k damage in an entire fight and when compared with Berserking is a joke.

[Agrias-Oaks]

just how much dps difference, approximately, are we talking about here between undead, trolls, orcs, goblins?

[mrgreenthump]

just how much dps difference, approximately, are we talking about here between undead, trolls, orcs, goblins?

Dps wise troll is miles ahead of everything, and then its 1-2k dps for the rest

[Agrias-Oaks]

Dps wise troll is miles ahead of everything, and then its 1-2k dps for the rest

2k between trolls and everything else you mean? or am i expecting more if i switch from undead to troll for example. sorry i'm derailing this.

[mrgreenthump]

2k between trolls and everything else you mean? or am i expecting more if i switch from undead to troll for example. sorry i'm derailing this.

nah i meant others are 1-2k dps gain over neutral race like a nightelf.. but troll is just way way ahead of those atm

[Polarthief]

So I never noticed the Touch of the Grave passive... I'd love to know why it's so ridiculously OP and why no other race has something that powerful.

A 13k-16k lifesteal with a 20% chance to procc and NO internal cooldown? Is this what Blizzard calls balanced?

I was going to say Troll, but after finding out about TotG, I'd say you'd have to be retarded not to go Undead for _ANY_ reason.

[Dusteyy]

So I never noticed the Touch of the Grave passive... I'd love to know why it's so ridiculously OP and why no other race has something that powerful.

A 13k-16k lifesteal with a 20% chance to procc and NO internal cooldown? Is this what Blizzard calls balanced?

I was going to say Troll, but after finding out about TotG, I'd say you'd have to be retarded not to go Undead for _ANY_ reason.

In a full Elegon kill, TotG did about 200k dps. Berserking alone makes up for that and more. Troll > UD for PvE in every way.

I sincerely hope the "ZOMG is this what you call balanced BLiz?!?!" was a troll......

[LocNess]

So I never noticed the Touch of the Grave passive... I'd love to know why it's so ridiculously OP and why no other race has something that powerful.

A 13k-16k lifesteal with a 20% chance to procc and NO internal cooldown? Is this what Blizzard calls balanced?

I was going to say Troll, but after finding out about TotG, I'd say you'd have to be retarded not to go Undead for _ANY_ reason.

I am fairly sure it has an ICD...or else it would definitely be OP as hell. I have been Forsaken this expansion, and without mastery builds, it is around .9% of my damage overall, with mastery it is around 1.5%.

EDIT: The reason for change, my mastery light build, it hits for around 20k, mastery heavy hits around 25k-26k.