Patch 5.2 Warlock discussion

[Deleted]

I strongly believe that GC has a very limited understanding of Warlocks, Hunters and Priests. Some of the things he said in the Class Balance threads about Disc and Shadow make him look like a complete idiot

I remember his answer about shadow's lack of burst. He said that not every class needs it and that shadow has a shadowfiend, power infusion and instant mind spikes. I couldnt believe what i was reading.

[Biruta]

Nothing new to anyone following GC a long time, but it is always sad to see how he responds to warlocks claims... cynical, sarcastic and very grudgingly:
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A big problem with locks and pets is that for aff/destro pets don't scale with mastery, which is the best stat for both specs.
That's not really a problem except for talents that let you opt out of having a pet.
do you think sacrifice was a mistake? i personally didnt want to play a warlock till i heard of that talent.
It's asking 2 questions at once: want DPS? Want a pet?
If you want your pet but Sac is more DPS you feel like you have to lose your pet.
ie: Sac DPS bonus should equal Pet DPS, so it's a choice of style rather than substance.
Or even a DPS loss since it's a convenience plus. <<< WTF?????
So you're basically admitting that pets are inconvenient? Wouldn't the better design be one that makes them worth having?
Pets are something you have to manage, like embers or cps or mana. Is the game more fun if we remove every such inconvenience?
lol. managing a pet is cool, but maybe DPS buffs (protectors) should affect them so many fights aren't "blizzard hates pets"
Pets are largely immune to raid damage. They have limitations on some fights, but aren't that big a deal to manage IMO.
"Pet's are something you have to manage" - GC and "[pets] aren't that big a deal to manage IMO" - GC WTF?
What are you trying to lawyer here? Yes, you have to manage pets. No, it's not rocket surgery to do so.



and as I have always said (although many had disagreed):

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So that's confirmed then? you balance around how much a class/spec is represented instead of performance? Fishing for answers!
We look at representation for sure, but that can be driven by a lot of things: class kit, art, tradition.
so do you look at class rep success rates/percentages. Popularity and success are not equal
Both popularity and efficacy are data points. There is a correlation but not often a strong one.

[luckydevours]

Does anyone else getting slightly annoyed by such inconsistent and confused looking tweets? When he cannot give meaningful comments in 140 signs why does he carry on posting there? The only real statement i get from this is "we think all your concerns are irrelevant and we wont invest any ressources in this area".

Edit: Recoverd this all-time classic:

I actually agree with that, but nobody is 1-shotting you with TfB (or CB). 5-stack TfB crit does what 250K? 2 or 3 shot maybe.

https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...38950442668032

[Jessicka]

What kind of backwards dip shit logic is that?

That management and limitations aren't a big deal to manage, but they're more than not managing at all.

I don't get how people can't see that setting pets, which have 'some' management and limitations, at parity with Sac which has none, would in all practical purposes lead to Sac coming out ahead. Or maybe people do get it, and want it to be better to vindicate their preference.

Compare it with the KJC and AV situation. AV offers more theoretical damage, but KJC makes things easier and offers more practical damage. People flock to KJC.

[luckydevours]

Did you even read the post he was refering to? GCs answer basically was "pets should not benefit from damage buffs because they are immune to raid damage".

[iru]

I don't really get why you constantly try to make it like this management should be an excuse for doing less or more damage. In both cases it's none or close to none. They shouldn't be balanced around that.

[Deleted]

That management and limitations aren't a big deal to manage, but they're more than not managing at all.

I don't get how people can't see that setting pets, which have 'some' management and limitations, at parity with Sac which has none, would in all practical purposes lead to Sac coming out ahead. Or maybe people do get it, and want it to be better to vindicate their preference.

Compare it with the KJC and AV situation. AV offers more theoretical damage, but KJC makes things easier and offers more practical damage. People flock to KJC.

He's not complaining about the management answer. He's questioning why, when the question was about pets not getting the benefit of fight specific damage buffs (like heroic protectors one in the example), GC answered with something that didn't address that in the slightest just as you completely missed the point in much the same manner .

Looking at most of the warlock answers, with more than a couple suffering from the same 'not actually answering the question' eventuality, I think that GC in particular has been REALLY hooked on all the sac questions just so that at this point half the time he looks at a question, sees the word 'pet', then jumps to a predetermined answer about convenience or whatever about pet control and sac regardless of what the question originally was about.

[Jessicka]

Did you even read the post he was refering to? GCs answer basically was "pets should not benefit from damage buffs because they are immune to raid damage".

No, that's not what he said, and pets do actually benefit from certain raid buffs if they're significant enough. The fact that they are practically immune to raid damage however does mean they can, and do continue to deal damage when players are under the effects of certain raidwide effects and need not be called back from area effects that would otherwise impede player DPS. He's acknowledging that pets do have certain benefits that warrant pitfalls.

[Bonkura]

I don't understand how most people who complain about pets seem to ignore that their pets are doing a big part of their damage. That micromanagement is usually less than what you have to do to achieve the same damage with the rest of your stuff in your spellbook. I thought this is why people have been making fun of hunters for years.

[luckydevours]

No, that's not what he said, and pets do actually benefit from certain raid buffs if they're significant enough. The fact that they are practically immune to raid damage however does mean they can, and do continue to deal damage when players are under the effects of certain raidwide effects and need not be called back from area effects that would otherwise impede player DPS. He's acknowledging that pets do have certain benefits that warrant pitfalls.

A 90% damage buff is not significant enough? Are you actually defending everything they say just for sake of it?

[Jessicka]

I don't understand how most people who complain about pets seem to ignore that their pets are doing a big part of their damage. That micromanagement is usually less than what you have to do to achieve the same damage with the rest of your stuff in your spellbook. I thought this is why people have been making fun of hunters for years.

In all honesty I think for most it's more about not wanting to be nerfed than anything truly pet related. If they were talking about buffing pets and the pet talents, I'm quite sure we'd see a slew of 'I can't wait to use my pets again' posts instead ._.

A 90% damage buff is not significant enough? Are you actually defending everything they say just for sake of it?

25% Haste for 20s is 90%?

Edit: Sorry you're talking about Corrupted essence. Why would your ranged ever be the ones to receive it?

[Deleted]

the reason why i dread pets isnt about the management needed to control them but rather when i cant do anything, when im at the mercy of blizz' encounter design that bugs my pet and my only choice would be a talent that causes me to do less dps(atleast at the time) by using GoSac, so it feels more like you get punished by bliz bcoz they couldnt program the encounter correctly.

[Kuroto]

25% Haste for 20s is 90%?

Edit: Sorry you're talking about Corrupted essence. Why would your ranged ever be the ones to receive it?

What? Please do the fight before starting an argument.

In case you were actually asking a question: In HC, adds are constantly spawning from the stairs. You assign a rotation of groups to run closer to the mob when it dies to soak a number of stacks of the debuff so nobody gets 10 stacks and explodes the raid. The assignments and group rotation depends on your strategy, but you will usually want all your DPS to get it to 9 stacks by the end (since it doesn't benefit healers at all).

[Bonkura]

In all honesty I think for most it's more about not wanting to be nerfed than anything truly pet related. If they were talking about buffing pets and the pet talents, I'm quite sure we'd see a slew of 'I can't wait to use my pets again' posts instead ._.

We have two specs looking REALLY strong and a third being perfectly viable. If people are in doubt go to any other class forum and you'll see people crying about Warlocks in every thread.

[Deleted]

Sorry you're talking about Corrupted essence. Why would your ranged ever be the ones to receive it?

why wouldnt they? 10man guilds do raid.

[luckydevours]

Edit: Sorry you're talking about Corrupted essence. Why would your ranged ever be the ones to receive it?

Because we can destroy the meters with it?!

[Teye]

I remember his answer about shadow's lack of burst. He said that not every class needs it and that shadow has a shadowfiend, power infusion and instant mind spikes. I couldnt believe what i was reading.

He also said that buffing Mind Blast would help their issue of poor movement dps. The guy is a moron.

He's not complaining about the management answer. He's questioning why, when the question was about pets not getting the benefit of fight specific damage buffs (like heroic protectors one in the example), GC answered with something that didn't address that in the slightest just as you completely missed the point in much the same manner .

This guy understands.

Jessicka, please go back and read the last few pages. We're not even talking about Sac vs Sup anymore. We're talking about GC not understanding that Demonology and all 3 Hunter specs suffer greatly when outside damage buffs don't affect them.

[Jessicka]

why wouldnt they? 10man guilds do raid.

Way I did it, ranged were at range to keep out the lightning more easily, only moved in to pick up Corrupted Waters to TP out again. I did do it 25 man, but I can't see it being a good idea to take all that extra raid damage within a 10 man group *shrug*. Either way, chances are you wont get to 9 stacks.

We have two specs looking REALLY strong and a third being perfectly viable. If people are in doubt go to any other class forum and you'll see people crying about Warlocks in every thread.

We totally do, but Aff is being pegged back from where it is on Live, prinicipally because of the nerfs to Sac. If it was Sup/Serv or baseline pet buffs to bring everything else up to AffSac, then there would undoubtably be less QQ.

---------- Post added 2013-03-02 at 01:43 PM ----------

Jessicka, please go back and read the last few pages. We're not even talking about Sac vs Sup anymore. We're talking about GC not understanding that Demonology and all 3 Hunter specs suffer greatly when outside damage buffs don't affect them.

Some do, question the inconsistency of it because I don't fully understand it myself. I can only guess that the specific reason they didn't in that fight is because it's meant to be a melee thing so they don't get completely benched for elite mode where they need to stand in AoE.

[Teye]

Way I did it, ranged were at range to keep out the lightning more easily, only moved in to pick up Corrupted Waters to TP out again. I did do it 25 man, but I can't see it being a good idea to take all that extra raid damage within a 10 man group *shrug*. Either way, chances are you wont get to 9 stacks.

Not trying to get personal here, but your armory link, as well as your account achievements don't show that you've done the fight on Heroic...

Also, a very quick Youtube search of "Heroic protectors 10 Warlock" gave this video of a Warlock with a 9 stack for the last minute or so of the fight.

[Jessicka]

Not trying to get personal here, but your armory link, as well as your account achievements don't show that you've done the fight on Heroic...

Also, a very quick Youtube search of "Heroic protectors 10 Warlock" gave this video of a Warlock with a 9 stack for the last minute or so of the fight.

You can give it to a Warlock, but there will always be encounters where it's preferable to give certain tasks to certain classes. Once a fight is on farm, it no longer matters and you can fuck about making videos for youtube. One of my favourites is a Warlock tanking Anub'arak in Trial; that didn't make or mean Warlocks optimal for that job (and certainly not lead me to think that they should be!)

FTR I've not raided seriously since 5.1 when my guild collapsed, I tried to get back into it with another guild but I'd slacked off too much too long, I didn't have the time or inclination to play catch up thanks to the upgrade system so I've been kicking about on alts waiting for 5.2 to see if it's worth starting over.