Patch 5.2 Warlock discussion

[Shodan30]

Little confused, i thought they were putting in changes to make GoSac less attractive to everyone.

[Deleted]

Chaos Wave is becoming worse and worse...
In my opinion, they should just remove it and give us Hand of Gul'dan in Metamorphosis form.

Let it do the same base damage regardless of form, but let the Metamorphosis version have a much stronger DoT effect.
Now you have to choose: Spend demonic fury for more AoE damage, or gain demonic fury for less AoE damage.

And if you want to use the new spell effect they gave Chaos Wave, give it to Touch of Chaos...
Because right now, it basically looks like an instant Shadowbolt.

[Skayth]

Chaos Wave is becoming worse and worse...
In my opinion, they should just remove it and give us Hand of Gul'dan in Metamorphosis form.

Let it do the same base damage regardless of form, but let the Metamorphosis version have a much stronger DoT effect.
Now you have to choose: Spend demonic fury for more AoE damage, or gain demonic fury for less AoE damage.

And if you want to use the new spell effect they gave Chaos Wave, give it to Touch of Chaos...
Because right now, it basically looks like an instant Shadowbolt.

Chaos wave got the buff as well. "Hand of Gul'dan, in metamorphasis form, is chaos wave. Does the 15% buff apply to the chaos wave too?
Yes."

So actually, its quite powerful now. But with the coming resil/pvp should be a minor boost in burst, while in pve the burst will be substantial.

[Bonkura]

GC changed his mind so the buff only affects HoG with the reason being PvP.

[Rustjive]

Chaos wave got the buff as well. "Hand of Gul'dan, in metamorphasis form, is chaos wave. Does the 15% buff apply to the chaos wave too?
Yes."

As was posted on the other thread, he later went back on that, because of PvP burst concerns. It's ultimately irrelevant because an equivalent boost to Chaos Wave still means that HoG is better.

[Deleted]

and for them to give Demo some sort of fury return that works like Shadowburns

As far as i know, you gain 100 fury per killing blow while you are in meta. At least i remember reading this somewhere...

[Deleted]

I guess its rather hard to kill something in Demo though, compared to instant 600k Shadowburns

[Medieve]

There's no doubt about affliction still remaining king. The whole thing with these buffs was to simply help balance the other specs or just to increase them flat out. It will most likely be: Affliction > Demo = Destro. Regardless I'm rolling Demo MS/Affliction OS next tier and these buffs gave me all the more incentive to do so.

Which is pretty much the same situation we're in today, except Demo and Destro will beat pretty much all specs now, not just many or most.

[Deleted]

Which is pretty much the same situation we're in today, except Demo and Destro will beat pretty much all specs now, not just many or most.

You dont see buffs other than for demo & destro ? Spriest ? Ele ? Fury ? Really ? maybe look once again ?


For you situation where diffrence is 20% and situation where difference is 5-10% is pretty much same ?

It was NEVER about making any other spec on top - it was about gettimg all of them closer - affli and mages can be top still. Just without such a big difference.

[Scathbais]

You dont see buffs other than for demo & destro ? Spriest ? Ele ? Fury ? Really ? maybe look once again ?


For you situation where diffrence is 20% and situation where difference is 5-10% is pretty much same ?

It was NEVER about making any other spec on top - it was about gettimg all of them closer - affli and mages can be top still. Just without such a big difference.

^Agree completely.

I have never felt the "need" to raid as Affliction in MoP except where raid mechanics favor that spec. The buffs to destro and demo are enough for me to switch from destro/affliction to destro/demo. I will still spec affliction if necessary but the changes make me feel even less concerned with playing the "top dps" spec.

10-man raiding sometimes dictates which spec you need to play(e.g. glyphed CoEX on H:Will), but I for one am glad that dps across the three specs appears to be close now.

[Skayth]

Well, damn. we are gonna still be bad at pvp =(

Which is pretty much the same situation we're in today, except Demo and Destro will beat pretty much all specs now, not just many or most.

Well, just to say, immolate hits like a wet noodle. Its pretty crap. Im surprised its actually only a 20% increase to it. I was expecting at least 30%. With the buffs to demo, I can see it being top, but Affliction is still better currently. Plus, the legendary meta sucks for demo. Its killer for affliction, which I think they took into perspective.

[Medieve]

My point is simply there is nothing to push players to another spec except for personal preference, the same as 5.1. We'll still be engaged in the same tiresome arguments about playing best spec vs. viable spec, what viable is, etc. with nothing really changing in the pecking order. Sure, Destro and Demo will look better compared to all other specs, but with Aff being king, nothing really changes, even with these buffs. Players comfortable with aff, and it being dominant will keep it basically where it is today, and nothing will really change.

As always, play what you like. I play Destro, and I play it damned well. It's a bit easier to defend as a spec choice with the buffs, but still something that has to be defended against the "if you're not playing optimally, why play?" crowd.

Still a week supposidly before the patch, it'll be interesting to see what else develops.

[Deleted]

"bla bla bla bla bla when affli will do 100000x more DPS than demo & destro its still will be affli > demo = destro so there still will be nothing to push players to another spec except for personal preference"



please use some logic in your sentences. We are not talking about lvling, about 5 mans, or any other things, we are talking about raiding. So YES - if theres big enought differences between specs its pushing players to do something. Ofc you can also go to nearby shop take some cookies, eat them and leave and scream - i didnt steal them what do you want from me ? But you see ... Actions > words - always.


Infracted

[Bukowskaii]

Players comfortable with aff... As always, play what you like.

This, as someone who never liked or was good at the stance shifting of Demo, Affliction remaining viable is a big deal to me, or even making Destro viable again is an option. Our raid leader is one of those "MinMax to the Max" type players and even if demo pulls only 200 dps more in sims, she wants to see warlocks playing demo. Something I argue to no end is that I will play aff better then I will EVER play demo, and that's just the way it is. Hell, I'm pretty sure even on live I can squeeze more out of destro than demo becuse of how much more I enjoy playing it.

[SaltLakeAtrocity]

If demo could have been viable with pet sac, I'd back the spec up with full arms. But as it stands, please god blizzard don't make me use a pet again.

[Scathbais]

"bla bla bla bla bla <snip> we are talking about raiding. So YES - if theres big enought differences between specs

Ignoring the antagonistic bits, there was not and is not a "big enough" different in Warlock specs in MOP to force one to main as Affliction. Yes there are certain encounters to that favor affliction, but that doesn't make destro or demo "not viable" for raiding.

Yes if you are pushing world firsts while under geared (which neither you nor I are currently doing), a raid leader may demand you go with the highest dps spec, but it is not necessary otherwise.

[Teye]

This, as someone who never liked or was good at the stance shifting of Demo, Affliction remaining viable is a big deal to me, or even making Destro viable again is an option. Our raid leader is one of those "MinMax to the Max" type players and even if demo pulls only 200 dps more in sims, she wants to see warlocks playing demo. Something I argue to no end is that I will play aff better then I will EVER play demo, and that's just the way it is. Hell, I'm pretty sure even on live I can squeeze more out of destro than demo becuse of how much more I enjoy playing it.

Your raid leader needs to realize that anything under a 1k difference in sims isn't going to matter if the player isn't good at the higher spec. They're simply going to perform better with the spec they're good at if the difference is that small.

[Deleted]

Ignoring the antagonistic bits, there was not and is not a "big enough" different in Warlock specs in MOP to force one to main as Affliction..

What is "big enought" for you and show proof that its not a big enought differences its about time to give something not just write about it with rule - just becouse

[Bukowskaii]

By the time warlocks were geared in T14H, there was a 12k difference between Aff and Demo/Destro in the sims. I think that's "big enough"

[Teye]

By the time warlocks were geared in T14H, there was a 12k difference between Aff and Demo/Destro in the sims. I think that's "big enough"

I've said it dozens of times before, but Demonology is far ahead of Destro, and only a few K behind Aff. Simcraft doesn't calculate Shadowflame damage properly, and the APL is a hot mess.