5.2 Shaman changes

[Rangar]

So I'm curious, at what point were we supposed to see the shaman changes?

[Recom]

Hopefully next week !

[binkenstein]

Are there any parses or tests done that tell us which talents will be superior based on the buffs? I love elemental blast too much to change to primal ele or unleashed fury.

You need to specify your spec, although I'll assume you're Elemental and go with my standard "Can't assess anything with outstanding changes" answer

So I'm curious, at what point were we supposed to see the shaman changes?

Hopefully in the next few days. We hardly ever see anything posted over the weekends anyway.

[Deleted]

Something unrelated: Any plans to make a Moonkin guide, Binkenstein? Sunfyre his guides are decent but yours are particularly enjoyable to read.

[Foxhoundn]

Does the healing buff from flame shock also work for the FS spell that is redistributed by Lava Lash?

[Deleted]

Does the healing buff from flame shock also work for the FS spell that is redistributed by Lava Lash?

If it doesn't then NOONE will take that glyph.

[Socialhealer]

If it doesn't then NOONE will take that glyph.

i'll take it when im not using CL glyph.

[Cai]

Does the healing buff from flame shock also work for the FS spell that is redistributed by Lava Lash?

Last time I tested it on PTR it did. Though I did not test it for very long so I don't have any numbers to show for it.

I think with incoming Ele buffs Enh will see some buffs (i.e LB or FlS buffs). Though I would really like to see some Resto buffs, right now I feel like I am lagging behind alot compared to our Holy Pally.

[binkenstein]

Something unrelated: Any plans to make a Moonkin guide, Binkenstein? Sunfyre his guides are decent but yours are particularly enjoyable to read.

Not currently. Hamlet has Moonkin pretty well covered.

[Tiberria]

Last time I tested it on PTR it did. Though I did not test it for very long so I don't have any numbers to show for it.

I think with incoming Ele buffs Enh will see some buffs (i.e LB or FlS buffs). Though I would really like to see some Resto buffs, right now I feel like I am lagging behind alot compared to our Holy Pally.

I also think Resto throughput is on the low side and needs to be looked at. From an overall perspective, Resto is dead last in 10 mans and second last to only Druids (who are getting an across the board buff) in 25 mans. Sure, Resto Shaman have loads of utility and are decently represented this tier. However, how fun is it really to be a buff bot/mana battery?

I think the biggest issue with Resto throughput is its Mastery mechanics and how much its output is suppressed by absorb healers. Resto output only seems competitive with that of other healers on fights where people are typically sitting low and where you get a large mastery contribution. On fights where there isn't massive amounts of raid wide damage, Shaman drop pretty precipitously. This isn't just a normal vs hard mode or a progression vs farm content issue, it includes progression fights like Heroic Sha. The nature of our mastery and the nature of how dependent we are on burst cooldown output (on less healing intensive fights, there is less burst for the cooldowns to soak up) means that we also suffer more from having a lot of Disc priests/holy pally absorbs in the raid and from having more healing than you need in the raid than any other healer.

The problem is, I don't know how you balance it. It feels like we are only balanced to be competitive on fights that are favorable to our mastery, which really isn't fair. If they buff it so that we are more competitive overall, our output will be too high on difficult/progression fights. The answer probably is to rework the design of the mastery.

[mrinvisable2]

i think resto issue is addressed with our 2 set and 4 set bonus for 10 man, at least for 5.2

[Tiberria]

i think resto issue is addressed with our 2 set and 4 set bonus for 10 man, at least for 5.2

I disagree. Both set bonuses add about 2% output each. However, you have to consider that every other healing spec is also getting nice 2 and 4 set bonuses, and several of them look stronger than the Resto ones. At best, the set bonuses will be a neutral change; we won't gain anything relative to other healers and may actually lose ground.

[takolin]

I also think Resto throughput is on the low side and needs to be looked at. From an overall perspective, Resto is dead last in 10 mans and second last to only Druids (who are getting an across the board buff) in 25 mans. Sure, Resto Shaman have loads of utility and are decently represented this tier. However, how fun is it really to be a buff bot/mana battery?

I think the biggest issue with Resto throughput is its Mastery mechanics and how much its output is suppressed by absorb healers. Resto output only seems competitive with that of other healers on fights where people are typically sitting low and where you get a large mastery contribution. On fights where there isn't massive amounts of raid wide damage, Shaman drop pretty precipitously. This isn't just a normal vs hard mode or a progression vs farm content issue, it includes progression fights like Heroic Sha. The nature of our mastery and the nature of how dependent we are on burst cooldown output (on less healing intensive fights, there is less burst for the cooldowns to soak up) means that we also suffer more from having a lot of Disc priests/holy pally absorbs in the raid and from having more healing than you need in the raid than any other healer.

The problem is, I don't know how you balance it. It feels like we are only balanced to be competitive on fights that are favorable to our mastery, which really isn't fair. If they buff it so that we are more competitive overall, our output will be too high on difficult/progression fights. The answer probably is to rework the design of the mastery.

I don't agree completely.


A part of the problem is absorbs, and mainly disc priest's absorbs, who're too good. But with the nerf to SS and DA, shamans will benefit the most from it because we got punished the hardest when healing with an absorb healer. My healing took a massive hit when our resto druid switched to a disc priest and I'm looking forward to taking back a part of what he took from me.


And being competitive on fights with low healing, doesn't matter all that much to me nor is it important for progress raiding. Fights with low healing requirements mean you can bring whatever healer you want because it doesn't actually matter all that much. And there's no objective reason to ditch a shaman over another healer because the outcome will be the same. The problems arise when you get sat because you can't heal the content with a fuckton of damage going out and our mastery is tailored to those fights.

[rogas]

Lava Burst base damage reduced by 33%, but now always crits. It does 50% more damage to the targets that affected by Flame Shock.


looks like a 5% damage buff to me... what do you guys think?

[Deleted]

It's not. Ghostcrawler explicitly mentioned that, in case you never cast a LvB without FS on the target, it'll do the same damage.

[rogas]

50%-33%=17% increase on lvb when target is flame shocked. no?

[Chimaera]

50%-33%=17% increase on lvb when target is flame shocked. no?

2/3 * 3/2 = 100%, same as before on flame shock target. They are multiplicative numbers, not additive.

[Endus]

Lava Burst base damage reduced by 33%, but now always crits. It does 50% more damage to the targets that affected by Flame Shock.


looks like a 5% damage buff to me... what do you guys think?

For simplicity, say it does 100 damage now. So 200 damage on a crit.

In 5.2, it will do 67 damage, but always crit for 133. And 50% more on a target with Flame Shock is 200.

There should be no effective change from that in particular, though we still haven't gotten the coming numbers tweak, which may adjust things further; the "33% of current" reflects the mechanical overhaul, not the final numbers pass.

[grexly75]

I could be mistaken but I am liking the changes to Chain Lightning and Lava Beam with chain lightning doing the same damage to consecutive targets as it does to the initial target. And how that Lava Beams damage increases by 10% with each jump that it does.. And how Glyph of Flame causes the shaman to heal for 30% of the damage dealt by Flame Shock..

I think I am seeing some nerfs there with Flametongue and Lightning Bolt but not really sure so more than likely I am wrong but who knows.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/822..._Live-1_2_2013

Shaman
Chain Lightning will now deal the same damage to subsequent targets as it does to the first.
Lava Beam's damage now increases with jumps. Each jump increases the damage by 10%.
Elemental Mastery now has a 90 second cooldown (was 2 minutes).
Shamanistic Rage is now available to Elemental Shaman as well as Enhancement Shaman.
Conductivity no longer requires that the target be within the area of effect of Healing Rain.
Ancestral Swiftness now increases spell haste by 5% and melee haste by 10%, instead of 5% each.
Glyph of Purge now adds a 6 second cooldown to Purge.
Stone Bulwark Totem now absorbs 25% more damage.
Unleashed Fury Flametongue now increases Lightning Bolt damage by 20% (was 30%), and Lava Burst damage by 10%.
Primal Earth Elemental and Primal Fire Elemental now deal 20% more damage.
Elemental Blast now has a chance to increase the caster's Agility for Enhancement Shaman.
Glyph of Flame has been redesigned. This glyph now causes the Shaman to heal for 30% of the damage dealt by Flame Shock.
Flame Shock's duration has been increased by 25%.
The talent Totemic Restoration now has an additional effect. Any totems that have been destroyed or replaced behave as if the totem had been active for at least 1 second.
When summoned, the Stone Bulwark Totem has health equal to 10% of the casting Shaman's health.
The talent Nature's Guardian now preserves the player's health percentage when its maximum health boosting effect expires.
Enhancement
Mental Quickness now lowers the cost of shocks by 90% (still lowers the cost of other "beneficial, instant, damaging and totem spells” by 75%).

[Lavindar]

Lava Burst base damage reduced by 33%, but now always crits. It does 50% more damage to the targets that affected by Flame Shock.


looks like a 5% damage buff to me... what do you guys think?

using only the 33 and 50 number it would be a 0.5% buff, but in the end the objective it to be the same as now when Lava Burst hit a target with Flameshock, and to hit more when the target doesn't have the Flameshock on them.

Mental Quickness now lowers the cost of shocks by 90% (still lowers the cost of other "beneficial, instant, damaging and totem spells” by 75%)

I am not seeing the objective of this, was there any situation that shocks would consume so much mana? is it related to PvP?