Russian military presence in Syria poses challenge to US-led intervention

[Deleted]

This really is rich. Listening to you armchair generals rattle on about Russia's 'bloated and incapable' millitary just reeks to the high heavens with irony. Do you know what happened to the Swedes, at their heyday the finest millitary the world had yet seen, when they crossed the Vistula during their 'Great Northern War'. The myth of Swedish invincibility was shattered. Napoleon, with his Old Guard, the finest military the world had yet seen, was decimated in Russia. The most dramatic example obviously, is the Nazis, with again the finest millitary the world had yet seen, routed the Russians in the beginning of the war, capturing millions of soldiers. The Germans, British and United States unanimously agreed that Russia would be smashed and would surrender to the vaunted Germany Wehrmacht. Russia would later occupy Berlin, having won the war on the backs of its 'poorly equipped, cowardly, weak' Red Army. They would later smash Japanese forces in Manchuria, forces that had been more hesitant to take on the Russians than the Americans in the pacific, even with German forces in Russia's west carrying the brunt of the war.
Many of the posters criticizing Russia indeed know little of war. No nation has endured so much, and been so toughened, as the Russian has. He certainly lacks technology, money, and even initiative and training. But somehow, he manages time and again to throw in the face of his critics their own words. The United States, the undoubted finest millitary the world has yet seen, swaggers around this globe as if they have won a heavyweight title. But the U.S.A is green compared to a nation like Russia; his 'war heroes' saw little compared to that of the Russian over history. In the words of Bane, America "fights like a young man, with nothing held back. Admirable -- but mistaken. Woe to the man who underestimates the Hibernating Bear.

Their heyday is long gone, they may regain their former power soon but not today. Pointing to the past is no good, look at the former British empire, we ruled a third of the world, only a fool would use that to say we could take on the USA for example.

[billytwice]

All i said was that people in here slamming Russia based on Logistics and Tech aren't looking at the bigger picture of things. Russia is good at looking at the bigger picture. Russia finds a way to fight on its own terms, hence how it consistently beats armies like those above. Also, the British Empire is not as completely inept as you might suppose. In any serious war, I would bet that Britain, Canada, Australia would stand together. Again, i know very well how powerful USA is... but it would be foolish to think that any army is invincible.

[Kalyyn]

Does the precise word matter when in the end the US is not invading Syria?

Not invading *yet*

Now that the Russians are there, I'm guessing all the old cold warriors over at the pentagon are taking it personally.

[Deleted]

Not invading *yet*

Now that the Russians are there, I'm guessing all the old cold warriors over at the pentagon are taking it personally.

Gotta beat those commies right? We still have a few top brass that think that way too, stuck in the 1980's.

[Kalyyn]

Gotta beat those commies right? We still have a few top brass that think that way too, stuck in the 1980's.

To be fair, it's an understandable mindset. After all, the regime basically changed in name only. The Kremlin is still more or less the same place it was during the later days of the USSR. It's a different economy, but the same Russians.

So I've been told, anyway.

[PACOX]

We are we intervening in Syria, anyway?

The "red line" is if they use chemical weapons.

[Deleted]

No. But Iran is not just 'a country', and even the IAEA consensus is that Iran's program is geared with the goal of producing weapons grade fissile material. Even if it is not, better safe than sorry when it comes to states hostile to multiple great powers.



I'm not American, actually. Furthermore, said surveillance is necessary. We even do it on our allies, and they do it to us. It's a reality and organic requirement of international politics.

As for America 'constantly seeking a war', you are confusing willingness with motive.



America is more willing to commit to armed engagements precisely because of the idealistic crap that ignores power structures on the international scene.



You don't appear to qualify as one, then.

---------- Post added 2012-12-24 at 05:01 AM ----------



There is, actually. Progressives formulate policy on their ideal goal, realists formulate it based upon the status quo. The 'via media' tripe only leads to dangerous mistakes and miscalculations.

Realism is fundamentally pessimistic, so go figure.

Give this a read, and come back how exactly Iran is a threat in this Russian/Syria thread. http://whowhatwhy.com/2012/09/27/the...ove-the-facts/

[Matchu]

All i said was that people in here slamming Russia based on Logistics and Tech aren't looking at the bigger picture of things. Russia is good at looking at the bigger picture. Russia finds a way to fight on its own terms, hence how it consistently beats armies like those above. Also, the British Empire is not as completely inept as you might suppose. In any serious war, I would bet that Britain, Canada, Australia would stand together. Again, i know very well how powerful USA is... but it would be foolish to think that any army is invincible.

Your examples are either historically irrelevant or based on Russia's geography (hint: it's cold). I notice you don't mention the nearest equivalent to the Syria situation, Russia vs Afghanistan.

[billytwice]

Your examples are either historically irrelevant or based on Russia's geography (hint: it's cold). I notice you don't mention the nearest equivalent to the Syria situation, Russia vs Afghanistan.

I knew someone would bring that up, and the "Graveyard of Empires" has posed trouble for the Americans,British and Russians alike, so I feel that degrading Russia's past with regard to Afghanistan is unfair. As well, the cold alone didn't win any of those wars, not even close. Like I said, Russia beat Germany quite regularly in the Fatherland, with both the 'Brandenberg Miracle' and the end of WW2 standing out as Russian victories outside of Russia. They beat Finland, the Swedes, the Austrians, the Poles. The Russians may not have the strongest, most tech saavy, well trained, or rich army, but they have the intangibles that have been forged in the cold of Siberia; toughness, cleverness, and a knack for surviving against the odds of the people in this thread and around the world who have always counted out Russia to their doom.

[Seranthor]

The pressure can cause the wisdom teeth to "erupt"(not sure if this is the correct word).

Exactly this, if you are going on sub duty they will try and remove your wisdom teeth, because at the time I was on active duty SSBN crews were still on long range patrols and they had no dental facilities at the bottom of the atlantic or under the polar ice caps.

[Deleted]

Exactly this, if you are going on sub duty they will try and remove your wisdom teeth, because at the time I was on active duty SSBN crews were still on long range patrols and they had no dental facilities at the bottom of the atlantic or under the polar ice caps.

All of our SSBNs have a medical doctor onboard trained to remove them, I thought US boats were the same.

[Elegiac]

This really is rich. Listening to you armchair generals rattle on about Russia's 'bloated and incapable' millitary just reeks to the high heavens with irony. Do you know what happened to the Swedes, at their heyday the finest millitary the world had yet seen, when they crossed the Vistula during their 'Great Northern War'. The myth of Swedish invincibility was shattered. Napoleon, with his Old Guard, the finest military the world had yet seen, was decimated in Russia. The most dramatic example obviously, is the Nazis, with again the finest millitary the world had yet seen, routed the Russians in the beginning of the war, capturing millions of soldiers. The Germans, British and United States unanimously agreed that Russia would be smashed and would surrender to the vaunted Germany Wehrmacht. Russia would later occupy Berlin, having won the war on the backs of its 'poorly equipped, cowardly, weak' Red Army. They would later smash Japanese forces in Manchuria, forces that had been more hesitant to take on the Russians than the Americans in the pacific, even with German forces in Russia's west carrying the brunt of the war.
Many of the posters criticizing Russia indeed know little of war. No nation has endured so much, and been so toughened, as the Russian has. He certainly lacks technology, money, and even initiative and training. But somehow, he manages time and again to throw in the face of his critics their own words. The United States, the undoubted finest millitary the world has yet seen, swaggers around this globe as if they have won a heavyweight title. But the U.S.A is green compared to a nation like Russia; his 'war heroes' saw little compared to that of the Russian over history. In the words of Bane, America "fights like a young man, with nothing held back. Admirable -- but mistaken. Woe to the man who underestimates the Hibernating Bear.

France was also the most powerful country in Europe after Richelieu, look what happened to them. Just because a country was great in the past says nothing for their current capabilities.

And capabilities aside, it has been repeatedly (and thruthfully) stated that the current Russian government is not going to risk a confrontation with the US over Syria; i.e. any 'prevention' is a token gesture and of no real consequence.

[Deleted]

I knew someone would bring that up, and the "Graveyard of Empires" has posed trouble for the Americans,British and Russians alike, so I feel that degrading Russia's past with regard to Afghanistan is unfair. As well, the cold alone didn't win any of those wars, not even close. Like I said, Russia beat Germany quite regularly in the Fatherland, with both the 'Brandenberg Miracle' and the end of WW2 standing out as Russian victories outside of Russia. They beat Finland, the Swedes, the Austrians, the Poles. The Russians may not have the strongest, most tech saavy, well trained, or rich army, but they have the intangibles that have been forged in the cold of Siberia; toughness, cleverness, and a knack for surviving against the odds of the people in this thread and around the world who have always counted out Russia to their doom.

I dont mean to sound rude, or ungrateful but your just a blatant liar if you truly think russia did it all on there own. They didnt, hitler was a back seat general in the start of the war and guess why it went so well...
However after his generals blitzkrieg tactics they were outrunning there supply lines and this is vital to every army in the past and current world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operati...s_the_invasion

Pretty much sums up all that went wrong, and how they were unprepared.

So fast forward to shattering the non aggression pact with russia and they attempt the same thing BUT, there invading at the wrong time.... russian winter would be setting in extremely quickly whilst outrunning there supply lines lines.

You claimed victory over a poorly planned and executed army, they were malnourished and ill equipped all because of hitler attempting to lead and him opening many fronts.

I still admire the russians and furthermore the germans but dont paint them to be the best of the best, you fought through a weakened army into berlin virtually unopposed unless you count the reserve forces (old old men and young children)

But then again you seem biased to paint russia in a good light irregardless, so i dont really care what you have to offer...

[Deleted]

I dont mean to sound rude, or ungrateful but your just a blatant liar if you truly think russia did it all on there own. They didnt, hitler was a back seat general in the start of the war and guess why it went so well...
However after his generals blitzkrieg tactics they were outrunning there supply lines and this is vital to every army in the past and current world.

So fast forward to shattering the non aggression pact with russia and they attempt the same thing BUT, there invading at the wrong time.... russian winter would be setting in extremely quickly whilst outrunning there supply lines lines.

You claimed victory over a poorly planned and executed army, they were malnourished and ill equipped all because of hitler attempting to lead and him opening many fronts.

I still admire the russians and furthermore the germans but dont paint them to be the best of the best, you fought through a weakened army into berlin virtually unopposed unless you count the reserve forces (old old men and young children)

But then again you seem biased to paint russia in a good light irregardless, so i dont really care what you have to offer...

Noone said russia was the best of the best, most people in this thread just think that russia is a villian and a pushover, wich is really fucking stupid.

[Deleted]

I seriously doubt Russia are stupid enough to risk any form of conflict with the US. They do questionable things, but they are not retarded.

[Kalyyn]

Noone said russia was the best of the best, most people in this thread just think that russia is a villian and a pushover, wich is really fucking stupid.

Villain? No. There are no "villains" in global politics. However, Russia is in direct opposition of America's interests.

[Elegiac]

Noone said russia was the best of the best, most people in this thread just think that russia is a villian and a pushover, wich is really fucking stupid.

Only a few people think that Russia is a 'villain'; most of us understand that the Russian government lacks any real teeth behind a threat to prevent entry into Syria, both in terms of means and of political willpower.

---------- Post added 2012-12-24 at 02:35 PM ----------

Villain? No. There are no "villains" in global politics. However, Russia is in direct opposition of America's interests.

How, exactly? All they are doing is sabre rattling to remind the US that they are a world power, as new or recently humbled powers do. The Cold War is over.

[Deleted]

Noone said russia was the best of the best, most people in this thread just think that russia is a villian and a pushover, wich is really fucking stupid.

Reading the past posts of people obsessive with russia, yes actually i'd say there directly implying it. But its stupid to think russia is a push over... Just a unequipped whiny child compared to other armies

One thing in war is certain, its impossible to guess what way it will swing.

P.S Merry christmas for everyone, wherever you are and however you celebrate it.

[Deleted]

About the argument about the nuclear weapons a few pages back: my country has a nuclear power plant, building a second one and we have a nuclear research facility capable of producing uranium. No, we have never developed a nuclear weapon.

[Elegiac]

About the argument about the nuclear weapons a few pages back: my country has a nuclear power plant, building a second one and we have a nuclear research facility capable of producing uranium. No, we have never developed a nuclear weapon.

Israel doesn't have nuclear weapons either.

But that argument is past.