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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Sturmgewehr86 View Post
    Example- If you get IP Banned,you switch your ip and you are wandering if u gotta change your mac adress too so there will be no link between the banned IP and the new one.
    I can't speak for Battle.net 2.0, but for all Blizzard legacy games, yes this method works.

  2. #22
    I am Murloc! Cyanotical's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neteyes View Post
    Of course they can see your MAC-Address. Why wouldn't they be able to?
    because MAC addresses are layer 2 and do not extend beyond the local broadcast domain


    blizzard "can" find your MAC by using their software installed on your computer, but they cannot see it from over the internet via normal communications

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Sturmgewehr86 View Post
    if i change my router MAC adress my internet immidiatly stops and i have to call my ISP to tell them that i changed it and give it to them so i can have internet agan).
    Cable modem (DOCSIS) does user authentication based on MAC address of the router. They write it down if you get router from your ISP, or requires you to tell your router's MAC address to them if you buy one of your own.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sturmgewehr86 View Post
    So i just dont know how blizzard could could know my Router MAC adress.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyanotical View Post
    blizzard "can" find your MAC by using their software installed on your computer
    It's 1000% certain that Warden records also MAC address along with many other things.
    Last edited by vesseblah; 2012-12-25 at 11:38 PM.
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  4. #24
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    MAC is used for media control - link local and local area interface addressing. MAC data does not form part of the IP packet header, nor the TCP header therefore no hosts beyond the local scope would likely know or care about your MAC address. It's meaningless information for any distant host. The only way Blizz could know your MAC address is if the client reads that information and sends it to them, and there would be absolutely no useful purpose in doing that afaik/imo.

  5. #25
    Herald of the Titans Xisa's Avatar
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    It's silly to blacklist MAC addresses, as they can be spoofed.

    The only time you filter per MAC address is to whitelist.

    Since Blizz can't do that, even though YES, of course they have your MAC address, they don't do anything with it.

  6. #26
    First off, why do you ask a question this argue with the people that are answering it? Secondly, why do you want to know?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sturmgewehr86 View Post
    Let me Elaborate a bit i think i gave too little info. I am Using a Router.Blizzards software is on my PC so i think if they can see any MAC adress it is the MAC on my LAN card that is connected to my Router( and i dont give a s*** if they know it becouse i can change it whenever i want,however if i change my router MAC adress my internet immidiatly stops and i have to call my ISP to tell them that i changed it and give it to them so i can have internet agan).So i just dont know how blizzard could could know my Router MAC adress.
    What ISP do you use? It sounds like your ISP only allows one MAC address, and by changing your routers MAC address you mess it up so you have to contact them to allow the new one. That is the only reason I can think of on why your ISP cares what your routers MAC address is, and why they don't care what your PCs is. Why do you feel like you should change your MAC addresses when everything is working?

    My opinion on this whole matter? Quit messing with your MAC address. You clearly don't know what you're doing and are incapable of understanding anything helpful being said here.

  7. #27
    I am Murloc! Cyanotical's Avatar
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    to add a bit, as vesseblah pointed out, warden sees your MAC address, but that is only on the computer you are logging in from, they do not see your router, or your modem's MAC addresses, or other computers

    this is kind of a grey area, normally you are allowed to do what every you want inside your own network, "spoofing" which is changing your MAC output to look like an authorized NIC, in order to gain access around a restriction, ie i will spoof the MAC address on my wifi card as part of a WPA hack, is normally illegal

    however, i think because warden is technically a "guest" within your network, you can change your mac address to get around any kind of restriction, but more easily, you can simply move to another computer

  8. #28
    AFAIK, the MAC address is not transmitted via the TCP/IP protocol. The MAC address 'stays' with your router.

    P.S. Of course it would not prevent Blizzard from querying your MAC address using software means in their client, as others have pointer out.

  9. #29
    Yes, blizzard and everyone else can see your mac address. This argument would have been better settled by a little time on wikipedia learning how IP packets work.

    This is completely unrelated, but changing the mac address on your router--which is a weird thing to do unless you're being shady-- normally would not require you to contact your ISP, if it did then it was simply because they have a strange dynamic ip setup. This has absolutely nothing to do with who can see your mac address and why.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by mafao View Post
    AFAIK, the MAC address is not transmitted via the TCP/IP protocol. The MAC address 'stays' with your router.
    Outside of the network, sure, but I know at least ARP requires the MAC of sender and receiver, and IP addresses can be easily related to them, making it quite easy to identify a router if you happen to take a sniff at two of these packets.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyanotical View Post
    because MAC addresses are layer 2 and do not extend beyond the local broadcast domain

    blizzard "can" find your MAC by using their software installed on your computer, but they cannot see it from over the internet via normal communications
    This.

    If we are talking "normal" internet connections, then the MAC address is only used for the connection from one device to the next in the chain. So your router knows your computer's MAC address (and vice versa), but the next step down the line (if you are using DSL, than this would be the DSLAM) only knows the MAC of your router. If you are using the standard internet protocol, i don't think there is a way to get the MAC from any device except the ones you are connected directly.

    However, as Blizzard has their own software installed on your computer, it is no problem for them to get your MAC by simply letting the software read your MAC and transmit it to them.
    Why do something simple, when there is a complicated way?
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  12. #32
    I'm necroing this thread because I have a more specific question as to how multi-boxing is detected. I'll preface by saying I do not intend to violate anything in the ToS with any information I gain here. But, since there is nothing that stops an entire family playing WoW together in the same household, Blizzard obviously does not detect multi-boxing through IP. If they cannot see the MAC address to know that there are 5 connections from the same device, then how do they detect it?

    I know Runescape has a way to detect it. You can sign into two accounts from two computers, but if you try two browsers it will give you an error message when you try to sign in to the second account.
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  13. #33
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    I don't believe multiboxing is against the ToS - it's the software that automates actions sent to the other accounts that is. Their rule is one button - one action. Ignoring Warden that is running in your processes, they can detect what machine the information is coming from in the packets - they are identifiable so your router knows where to send them when they are returned. This is how I assume Runescape does it.

    Bringing Warden into the equation, it collects a lot more information about your machine including the processes running. This is one of the ways they use to detect bad activity.

    TLDR: Machine 1 and 2 have different addresses so they are identifiable from outside.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by jrockviggy View Post
    I'm necroing this thread because I have a more specific question as to how multi-boxing is detected. I'll preface by saying I do not intend to violate anything in the ToS with any information I gain here. But, since there is nothing that stops an entire family playing WoW together in the same household, Blizzard obviously does not detect multi-boxing through IP. If they cannot see the MAC address to know that there are 5 connections from the same device, then how do they detect it?

    I know Runescape has a way to detect it. You can sign into two accounts from two computers, but if you try two browsers it will give you an error message when you try to sign in to the second account.
    Multi-boxing is not against the ToS. The software used to send keypresses to multiple clients is fine as long as one keypress equals one action per client.

    So for example, you can make it so pressing "1" will cast chain lightning on all your shamans simultaneously but you can't make it so that pressing "1" once casts chain lightning 3 times in a row on all your shamans simultaneously.

  15. #35
    So is it possible to determine as an outsider, a single computer out of 10 for example, which are all connected to a single router? Meaning if the IP for those 10 computers are the same is the MAC address different in each computer and can it be found out by someone with no direct physical access to your computer. (Doing a masters thesis on piracy, and this information could come useful)

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Wikko View Post
    So is it possible to determine as an outsider, a single computer out of 10 for example, which are all connected to a single router? Meaning if the IP for those 10 computers are the same is the MAC address different in each computer and can it be found out by someone with no direct physical access to your computer. (Doing a masters thesis on piracy, and this information could come useful)
    Typically, only if there is another piece of software including that information in a packet being transmitted to another public destination. MAC addresses live at the 2nd layer, they're what your PC uses to communicate with local hosts and bridges, in most cases a switch. That switch is typically part of a router. Routers work on the 3rd OSI layer, this is where layer 2 frames are reorganized into layer 3 packets and it transitions from using physical addresses (MACs) to using IP addressing. In short no network devices outside of your Ethernet or 802.11 network have any idea, nor caring, for the physical addressing on the network as it serves no purpose. The router packet will bind the source IP back to whatever system originated it, store that in NAT and handles responses accordingly.
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  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by jrockviggy View Post
    If they cannot see the MAC address to know that there are 5 connections from the same device, then how do they detect it?
    I doubt we know the full answer, but IP is only going to be the first clue. As people have pointed out, there's absolutely nothing wrong with playing WOW from two computers in the same house simultaneously. My brother and I did it for years.

    In Blizzard's case, remember that you are running their software on your computer. They can query around your computer for information or a combination of information that they believe are unique to your machine. MAC probably wouldn't be one of them, since it's easily programmable if you really wanted to. You can get UUIDs from hard drives, motherboards and sometimes the BIOS, just to name a few. While it isn't 100% foolproof, you would certainly identify most peoples' computers with a combination of a handful of these markers and get that identifier to stick well enough.

    If somebody is literally using multiple machines it gets harder. My guess is they have to look at heuristics server-side to identify that. If you have multiple connections from multiple accounts on the same IP but they're always pressing the same buttons within a fraction of a second of one another (to account for some delay) that's a pretty good indication. Likewise you could drop the "same IP" requirement and look at a larger sample size of data to determine the same. Random variance means people will often be pressing the same buttons at the same time as one another, but it won't be the same people and the same buttons over and over and over. Just watch for a while and you can probably pick them out.

    There are similar "fingerprinting" techniques for web browsers, especially if you happen to be running Java or Flash by default. I never played Runescape so I Google'd it and it looks like it does indeed require Java. They could be getting your MAC address or other information (as above) that way and using it to build a unique identifier of your computer and then comparing those.

    I certainly don't know the specifics of how either company is actually doing it, but these are some of the techniques they could be (and probably are to at least some degree) using.
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  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrockviggy View Post
    If they cannot see the MAC address to know that there are 5 connections from the same device, then how do they detect it?
    Exact implementation? Hard to say; but no competent programmer would even consider MAC (or IP) as part of the process.

    However for detecting multiboxing, the word most straight forward approach is actually a common software practice: check the other executables. A lot of software on start will check for already running instances. If one is detected, the start up is cancelled.

    For WoW: you wouldn't cancel, but continuously share information such as session IDs. And theres your link. Easy, standard, accurate.

  19. #39
    Technically Blizzard can see your Mac-Adress but only if you are connecting via IPv6 as the Algorithm uses your entire Mac-Adress (And a few other Things) to create your IPv6 Adress. However using IPv4 the Server can only see the Mac from the last Server Hop trough the Internet.
    But if they wanted to they simply could find it out via the Battle.net Launcher.

    Nowadays there are 3 ways to Ban a Computer:

    1: The most useless one: IP Ban: Simply change ur IP and you are good to go!
    2. The most used one: Account Ban: Your Account will be locked and you will need to create a new one!
    3. Seldom used (Overwatch and Denuvo Copy Protection): Hardware Ban: a 64-bit Digit (Denuvo, length may vary) unique Hardware ID is created using your PC Setup! You'll need to change Hardware crucial to your PC to bypass that ban!

  20. #40
    Moderator chazus's Avatar
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    Yes. Blizzard can see your MAC address. It's part of Warden.

    Also, your ISP does not necessarily see your MAC address, as it's behind your modem and router. It can see the MAC of those.
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