No new dungeons, really Blizzard?

[bionics]

Loved the middle one... where you went back for the demon soul. Nice details, cool story involvement.

That and Halls of Reflection are such indelible instances and I have to agree -- having the storyline interwoven throughout them definitely contributes to that sentiment.

The first bosses, Falric and Marwyn had such haunting voices and disturbing lines: "Men, women, children. None were spared the master's wrath. Your death will be no different."

And of course, hauling ass away from Arthas while he stalked after you all ominous like the boulder from the Raiders of the Lost Ark intro.

[Pann]

If you have those statistics, why can't you be exact?
Give me a link please that shows us their net profit and how much is then spent on WoW

I can't be exact as Blizzard lumps in all their online services, including COD, into one section. Feel free to look for yourself.

http://investor.activision.com/reports.cfm

As you can see from this report; http://files.shareholder.com/downloa..._Final_PDF.pdf

Total Activision Blizzard product development accounted for 14% of their income in 2010, 15% in 2009 and 20% in 2008.

[MoanaLisa]

only more worthless scenario's pushed down our throat never seen a person that like those

Well, now you have and there are many others as well. They are a very efficient way to cap valor if that's what you want to do. Lack of queue time is a good thing. I'd like to see the rewards increased a bit and Blizzard has made some noise about that.

[mvaliz]

IMO - there should be at least 1 new dungeon to pair with every new raid that's added, for those that prefer the 5 man variety content. But that's just me. :P

[Granyala]

Well, now you have and there are many others as well. They are a very efficient way to cap valor if that's what you want to do. Lack of queue time is a good thing. I'd like to see the rewards increased a bit and Blizzard has made some noise about that.

Naah not really. 40vp and they take as long as a normal 5man HC.
I'd like to see more story in there, not just: "Yo dawg we need to brew here, so we throw a couple of Yaungol at you and you kill'em. Enjoy!"

5.1s Scenarios were a step in the right direction though. Will be interesting to see how Blizzard evolves that feature over time.

[Thimagryn]

The current design will most likely not change in 5.3 or 5.4
Maybe they'll go for a whole different model at some point, maybe in another expansion, but maybe not.
Do you really think now that they have the LFR in place they're going to go back to how it was pre-LFR?.

Yes I do. Because 5.3/4 is not 5.2, and there will be a bigger gear disparity between fresh 90 and Raiding 5.3/4. That's what the dungeons have always been added in between expansions for, to get people geared up and ready to raid. Even fresh 85's weren't able to get straight into 4.3 LFR through running lvl 85 heroics, you needed to fill up on gear from the 4.3 dungeons. You will likely need to do new dungeons to get into new LFR's, because no one will be running 5.1/5.2 once new patches roll out.

[DetectiveJohnKimble]

For rep, badges, gear, etc...yes. They certainly did. Did you even play TBC?

Uh, did you play TBC? No one ran Durnholde Keep when you can just run Kara or ZA for badges and they were overall easier. If you wanted rep you'd just run the level 70s on normal, and if you wanted gear or badges you'd run Ramparts/Slave Pens/Mechanar or would raid (didn't the heroics back then just drop the same loot as the regular dungeons? Whatever it was, it was just easier to do Kara and not worry about having to find groups for some of the harder heroics)

I did run H Botanica a lot, since that one had like 5 bosses and wasn't that bad.

[fangless]

Yes I do. Because 5.3/4 is not 5.2, and there will be a bigger gear disparity between fresh 90 and Raiding 5.3/4. That's what the dungeons have always been added in between expansions for, to get people geared up and ready to raid. Even fresh 85's weren't able to get straight into 4.3 LFR through running lvl 85 heroics, you needed to fill up on gear from the 4.3 dungeons.

Ready to raid? Last time I checked, Mists had raids in it starting at 5.0. doable in ilvl 463.

You will likely need to do new dungeons to get into new LFR's, because no one will be running 5.1/5.2 once new patches roll out.

They will, because there will always be a stream of people doing them to gear up new characters. They would only skip them if the previous gearing system was in place.



Why does the old content have to become irrelevant after each patch? That's just throwing away content for no good reason.

[MoanaLisa]

Why does the old content have to become irrelevant after each patch? That's just throwing away content for no good reason.

I'm pleased to see more people bringing this up because I think this is what is going on.

Keeping all of the raids relevant during an expansion, even the LFR versions, while not boxing people into the sort of gymnastics they had to do during BC--and even then not really able to catch up once far enough behind--is a substantial change in direction if that's what they're doing. The key here is the availability of LFR which has always had more use beyond the "seeing the content" stuff.

With LFR difficulty tuned up a bit from the DS raid and the majority of the loot drama issues resolved, it's clear that Blizzard intends for it to have a major role/function in the game well beyond simply seeing the raids.

[Erudus]

New Dungeons are one of the few PvE aspects I've always been looking forward to. Yes it's mostly 1-2 per patch but running them and getting the achievments was usually something I enjoyed. Now they don't even bother to do that anymore, they're getting neglected in favour of their crappy scenarios whom I in all honesty despise since I have to dps instead of heal.

Since when have mid-xpac patches included dungeons? 4.1 not included since no raids were added in 4.1

[Vargur]

Really? Everytime I've had a healer in the scenarios I've done the time has been cut instead of increased. Especially the ones where you can mass pull and aoe everything down at once (love going prot on Theramore with a healer and pull every trash pack to each objective at once)

Yes really. Healers are wasting the other 2 DPS-ers time. I leave everytime there is one, at the expense of 30 mins debuff.

[Servasus]

We didn't get any new dungeons with Firelands. And no, ZG and ZA don't count because they dropped below tier 11 ilevel gear and happened a patch before.

Either way, what made you think we were getting 5mans? A 13 boss raid and an entire questing island with 2 more world bosses isn't enough for you?

Spoiled kids.

[hyphnos]

Ready to raid? Last time I checked, Mists had raids in it starting at 5.0. doable in ilvl 463.



They will, because there will always be a stream of people doing them to gear up new characters. They would only skip them if the previous gearing system was in place.



Why does the old content have to become irrelevant after each patch? That's just throwing away content for no good reason.

It's throwing it away for a very good reason, because players want to be in current content. You can argue all day long about whether people should be in the curret raid tier or not but just because Blizzard and/or currently successful raiders believe the riffraff should be relegated to "progressing" through outdated content that happens to be from the current expac doesn't mean players will accept it.

Everquest followed this model to the point such that when I quit there were guilds struggling in raids 2 expacs old while current content was wiped by high end guilds that could poach any player they wanted. Putting players in a position so they can never catch up is death to an MMO especially if the mechanism of catching up is a slot machine with an hour long queue.

[Kelimbror]

Uh, did you play TBC?

Yes, as my Hand of Adal title will tell you.

No one ran Durnholde Keep when you can just run Kara or ZA for badges and they were overall easier. If you wanted rep you'd just run the level 70s on normal, and if you wanted gear or badges you'd run Ramparts/Slave Pens/Mechanar or would raid (didn't the heroics back then just drop the same loot as the regular dungeons? Whatever it was, it was just easier to do Kara and not worry about having to find groups for some of the harder heroics)

I don't think you are remember the times very correctly and are also taking the response out of context. The person made a statement like people didn't run the abundance of dungeons that were in the game and that is just false. People constantly ran dungeons through the whole life of that expansion. If you think otherwise, then you didn't play a lot or have multiple characters.

I tanked so many heroics and raids as a bear I can't even remember what else I did for those years. Even you admit to running a specific one a lengthy amount of times. I'm not really sure what your point is, if you even have one. I guess all that time spent in Kindergarten had an effect on you... (yes, whether you like my post or not, that was clever and appeals to your naming sensibilities)

[DetectiveJohnKimble]

Yes, as my Hand of Adal title will tell you.


I don't think you are remember the times very correctly and are also taking the response out of context. The person made a statement like people didn't run the abundance of dungeons that were in the game and that is just false. People constantly ran dungeons through the whole life of that expansion. If you think otherwise, then you didn't play a lot or have multiple characters.

I tanked so many heroics and raids as a bear I can't even remember what else I did for those years. Even you admit to running a specific one a lengthy amount of times. I'm not really sure what your point is, if you even have one. I guess all that time spent in Kindergarten had an effect on you... (yes, whether you like my post or not, that was clever and appeals to your naming sensibilities)

The person you responded to said no one ever ran H Durnholde, H Arcatraz, and H Botanica. You said people did because you could get badges, gear, and rep from those dungeons. I'm saying that's false as to dungeons like H Durnholde and Arcatraz (I disagreed with the Botanica part, but generally speaking there were only a few heroic dungeons people ever ran).

I wasn't around for pre-nerf Kara, so maybe people did run some of those dungeons to gear up for tier 4 at first. But after that it was basically only Ramps/Mech/SP.

[Deleted]

Yes I do. Because 5.3/4 is not 5.2, and there will be a bigger gear disparity between fresh 90 and Raiding 5.3/4. That's what the dungeons have always been added in between expansions for, to get people geared up and ready to raid. Even fresh 85's weren't able to get straight into 4.3 LFR through running lvl 85 heroics, you needed to fill up on gear from the 4.3 dungeons. You will likely need to do new dungeons to get into new LFR's, because no one will be running 5.1/5.2 once new patches roll out.

In past expansions we had those dungeons because it was near impossible to find groups for older raids. Now with LFR it'll be much easier.

[Orangetai420]

Remember troll dungeons in 4.1? They were nice, right? Well, not when you had to grind 2 dungeons over and over to cap valors.

Same thing would happen now. You would have to grind 2-3 dungs over and over again, until you throw up. It's better that way.

Yes, this right here. I'm glad blizz game to their senses on this one.

[MoanaLisa]

It's throwing it away for a very good reason, because players want to be in current content. You can argue all day long about whether people should be in the curret raid tier or not but just because Blizzard and/or currently successful raiders believe the riffraff should be relegated to "progressing" through outdated content that happens to be from the current expac doesn't mean players will accept it.

Everquest followed this model to the point such that when I quit there were guilds struggling in raids 2 expacs old while current content was wiped by high end guilds that could poach any player they wanted. Putting players in a position so they can never catch up is death to an MMO especially if the mechanism of catching up is a slot machine with an hour long queue.

Just a few points:

1. It's OK to define 'current content' as everything in the current expansion. Some may disagree. That doesn't make them correct. It's really up to the individual player.

2. We don't know if players will or will not accept this method or progression. There's a lot of evidence to suggest they will. Of course, some won't and will complain about it forever and ever. That being the case, BC progression or something like it has a lot of vocal fans.

3. We don't know if this is putting players in a position where they can never catch up. LFR is one way. There might be others through JP, crafted gear, etc. Again, and this is speculation, I don't expect the mistakes of BC progression to be repeated. Access to LFR makes a difference. How much remains to be seen.

4. We don't know enough yet to proclaim gloom and doom for the rest of the expansion.

[RandomGamer]

Dungeons will be there only as a bridge between leveling and the first tier.
After that the raids will provide the gearing path.

The only nightmare is the time it takes to gear up.
I hope they will use valor/justice for the older tiers... so we're nut fully dependant on rng.

This could be fixed by removing the weekly cooldown on loot for the old tiers in LFR.

I wouldn't mind having to run msv, hof, terrace a few times until I got the ilvl for the Thunder King raid, waiting a week between runs or having to use gold coins on them to catch up... /puke

[Bryntrollian]

I like how people were whining in cataclysm about short raids... Blizzard finally creates a huge one similar in size with Ulduar and ICC and guess what! Now people will whine about 2 dungeons! Crazy huh? "Hey guys I whine just to whine!"

Wow has such a vast player base that it is impossible for a group of people to not complain about something at any given time.