No new dungeons, really Blizzard?

[KCguy]

So then what if they do add a few new dungeons, then what? You'd get bored of both in a week. It was pointless of them to add a few new ones so soon into the expansion. Instead we get a massive new raid. I think most people will forgive Blizzard this time.

[Shahad]

Okay, let's just define what the heart of the issue is.
No new dungeons means no catch up mechanism for people returning for 5.2, or people who are trying to change characters in between tiers. The question then becomes, is there an alternative planned? Because I think we can all agree LFR is insufficient for that purpose, as is rep grinding and current dungeons.

[JhanZ]

Does anyone think they could have combined the Brawler's Guild idea with dailies to make it its own content type, rivaling the likes of dungeons/raiding/pvp?

What do dailies bring? Quests, small rewards, and story.
What does the BGuild bring? Challenge, and fun.

Seems like a natural combination in my eyes. For example, you could start out doing 4-5 dailies for a certain faction, and then they'd direct you to an arena with a larger problem where you'd have to use your gear/skills to defeat the monster, resulting in a larger reward than the previous dailies, and unlocking some relevant story. They could have even added in vehicle/flying vehicle elements into it sparingly, to spruce it up. Maybe even change the event slightly if doing it in a group.

Hell, they could have added in some feat of strength achievements where you could trigger a boss fight's 'hard mode'.

Does that sound better than dailies?

[Thimagryn]

And BGs aren't? How about raids or dungeons? There is no right or wrong reason to play the game and you cannot decide that dailies are a "horrible" reason.

I didn't say it was wrong, I said it was horrible. Choosing to be part of the Westboro Baptist Church isn't wrong (it's your choice to do so), but it would a horrible decision.

[Deleted]

So then what if they do add a few new dungeons, then what? You'd get bored of both in a week. It was pointless of them to add a few new ones so soon into the expansion. Instead we get a massive new raid. I think most people will forgive Blizzard this time.

I'm fine with not getting new dungeons next patch, but as I've understood it their plan is to not add any 5mans through patches anymore, because we can now get gear through LFR.

[Duster505]

- kept the status quo by giving us raids that are like dungeons in that you can pug them and still be able to get through it with far less effort than a normal raid. And they're ran by a rather large part of the wow community.

Actually LFR is probably the biggest failure in recent MMO history. It gives ppl the entitlement that they will get X amount of bosses down without even knowing how they work. Now.. thats a disgrace and should never be added to any MMO game. Even BLizzard is now forced to make every single mechanic of bosses so nub friendly that ppl can't wipe LFRs with it.

[hakujinbakasama]

Context. Learn what it is.

Next thing I guess you're gonna bring up World Bosses and how I skipped over that too huh?

Because even your context failed? You could do dailies to get rep rewards, to get patterns, to get actual items, but you didn't have to do that come patch fuckpointallificanremember. So it WAS an option. You just didn't HAVE to do it. That makes whatever you were trying and failing to convey pretty mute. Then you claimed you didn't even say they didn't exist.... which you had said. Now you're claiming you meant something totally awesome, but I failed to not catch it.

NO... not at all.

[Dravelar]

Actually LFR is probably the biggest failure in recent MMO history. It gives ppl the entitlement that they will get X amount of bosses down without even knowing how they work. Now.. thats a disgrace and should never be added to any MMO game. Even BLizzard is now forced to make every single mechanic of bosses so nub friendly that ppl can't wipe LFRs with it.

The mechanics are way harder and more complex than before,you can't see it in LFR because things are tuned really easy,but the normals and heroics are as challeging as they ever were,even harder i would say

[Duncanîdaho]

What a joke... 3 Scenarios (+5 from 5.1) and NO new dungeon? GL with your scenarios thingies, which most people dont even do for the quests they are required for.

Kind of like how people didn't bother doing dungeons just to finish off some story quests until they started putting the quests right inside the dungeons themselves. That has no bearing on anything, people still won't finish the dungeons quests today even though they are pretty much handed to them now. Why would people suddenly change what they have been doing for years in regards to scenarios?

Too add something I haven't scene mentioned. Adding three more dungeons to the game now does more for content now then it did back in DS with the introduction of challenge modes, but it also requires more work. They can no longer just quickly design a heroic that people can face roll through(like the last 3 in DS). Each new dungeon set has to be tuned for new challenge modes and possible new rewards now as well. Challenge modes are a thing now. So that could possibly be a reason why they are hesitant to add more 5-man dungeons fairly quickly like they have in the past.

[Duster505]

Okay, let's just define what the heart of the issue is.
No new dungeons means no catch up mechanism for people returning for 5.2, or people who are trying to change characters in between tiers. The question then becomes, is there an alternative planned? Because I think we can all agree LFR is insufficient for that purpose, as is rep grinding and current dungeons.

The goal for BLizzard is to scare everyone into thinking that they have to pay the sub for the entire expansion. If not they can't progress. OFC - it doesn't work... but it might see less of a drop in sub numbers than we saw after 4.1.

---------- Post added 2012-12-27 at 08:36 PM ----------

The mechanics are way harder and more complex than before,you can't see it in LFR because things are tuned really easy,but the normals and heroics are as challeging as they ever were,even harder i would say

Exactly - less pug friendly =)

I did all in normal mode before I unsubed. Simply not worth doing considering all the other issues that this expansion is bringing with the new systems. I have zero interest lvling my alts - and playing multi role characters makes them feel extra gimped with the ilvl upgrade system. Add 1 hour of Q times every LFR and you have a player that has no interest playing WOW anymore.

[Thimagryn]

Because even your context failed? You could do dailies to get rep rewards, to get patterns, to get actual items, but you didn't have to do that come patch fuckpointallificanremember. So it WAS an option. You just didn't HAVE to do it. That makes whatever you were trying and failing to convey pretty mute. Then you claimed you didn't even say they didn't exist.... which you had said. Now you're claiming you meant something totally awesome, but I failed to not catch it.

NO... not at all.

You're still wrong if you think that many non-raiding casuals were actively doing these dailies to progress. Again, per the examples I gave, LFR , dungeons, scenarios and current dailies are geared for casual progression. Pre-TBC dailies were not very casual at all, and were not legitimately seen as casual progress content the way dungeons were. Stop ignoring my point and arguing for the sake of arguing.

[TheWindWalker]

Actually LFR is probably the biggest failure in recent MMO history. It gives ppl the entitlement that they will get X amount of bosses down without even knowing how they work. Now.. thats a disgrace and should never be added to any MMO game. Even BLizzard is now forced to make every single mechanic of bosses so nub friendly that ppl can't wipe LFRs with it.

You're really funny. So, how many heroic raid bosses have you downed this tier? With that attitude I'm certain even Heroic Stone Guardians certainly wouldn't be too complicated for you, so let's see if you at least know what the mechanics are yourself.

[hyphnos]

Well Blizzard did say that they would have patches like:

Patch 1: More dailies/scenarios or dungeons
Patch 2: Raid
Patch 3: More dailies/scenarios or dungeons
Patch 4: Raid
Patch 5: More dailies/scenarios or dungeons
Patch 6: Raid
Patch 7: More dailies/scenarios or dungeons

Anyways, it just so happens that the first patch implemented 2 new scenarios and no new dungeons, so i guess we will have to wait until 5.3 to possibly see new dungeons.

You are making the same wrong assumption Blizzard is. "We" don't "have" to wait and see anything and a great many of us won't.

[Pann]

See my above reply. Yes, everybody "rather" wants s.th else. If you think you need a mechanism that allows you to have all your alts in the best possible raidgear...that is fair enough. I am not even saying it is a bad thing. i hated to be obstructed on my alts from raiding post Karazhan during TBC. At the same time when I enjoyed the catch up mechanisms in WotLK and Cata, a different breed of players was up and on the barricades whining how accomplishments of "proper" raiders were trashed by this catchup.

To the point where even people who should PROFIT from the catchup made posts like "This game sucks, I was away 6 months, hit 85, geared in HoT, rand DS in LFraid and now I am bored after 2 weeks".

Like I said..whatever is in the game, let the QQ commence. Somebody is always mortally offended at the mechanics.

My point is not to do with wanting my alts to have the best gear available it is more to do with I do not want to be running the same content I am running today and for the past couple of months in three or four months time.

People were bored in DS because it was not very good. Do you really think that best way to entertain people is have them run obsolete content over and over again until such a time as they have the item level requirement to run the next set of obsolete content?

[Shahad]

The goal for BLizzard is to scare everyone into thinking that they have to pay the sub for the entire expansion. If not they can't progress. OFC - it doesn't work... but it might see less of a drop in sub numbers than we saw after 4.1.

If Valor gear starts costing JP, and JP gaining rates get bumped up a bit, it wouldn't be too bad to catch up, although they still require rep grinding. With the combination of new Valor gear with 5.2 rep, it shouldn't be TOO bad. But I really hope we'll get new 5-mans soon. I hate running current ones.

[MoanaLisa]

Even BLizzard is now forced to make every single mechanic of bosses so nub friendly that ppl can't wipe LFRs with it.

First you say this and then in response to Dravelar saying how much more difficult normal/heroics are you say something else:

Exactly - less pug friendly =)

So make up your mind. How do you define exactly right?

[hyphnos]

Which means the last 8 years were lame. Because IIRC....ONE patch every x-pac had new 5 mans.

ToC, ICC, 4.1 and 4.3 had new dungeons.

Does that ring any bells?

[Duster505]

You're really funny. So, how many heroic raid bosses have you downed this tier? With that attitude I'm certain even Heroic Stone Guardians certainly wouldn't be too complicated for you, so let's see if you at least know what the mechanics are yourself.

Why on earth do ppl need to down heroic raid bosses when they have seen all the content in LFR? Exactly - Most ppl wont bother cause its pointless content. I did it normal cause I had pretty decent guild but we were not gonna push heroics cause its pretty much like D3... same content just made slightly harder every time. In terms of RPG.... utterly worthless. And last time I checked - this was mmoRPG game.

[Shahad]

Why on earth do ppl need to down heroic raid bosses when they have seen all the content in LFR? Exactly - Most ppl wont bother cause its pointless content. I did it normal cause I had pretty decent guild but we were not gonna push heroics cause its pretty much like D3... same content just made slightly harder every time. In terms of RPG.... utterly worthless.

Because some people like to actually have a challenge, and like to push to the limit of their abilities. You don't and that's fine, that what LFR and normals were made for.

[hakujinbakasama]

You're still wrong if you think that many non-raiding casuals were actively doing these dailies to progress. Again, per the examples I gave, LFR , dungeons, scenarios and current dailies are geared for casual progression. Pre-TBC dailies were not very casual at all, and were not legitimately seen as casual progress content the way dungeons were. Stop ignoring my point and arguing for the sake of arguing.

I wouldn't even remotely begin to agree with that assessment. First, it was infinitely harder to complete dungeons during tbc. Secondly, dailies and the rep grind was a more direct and guaranteed option to get craftables and gear. It was also the main source of money to obtain flying mount training which was desired by everyone.

Furthermore, this whole argument you're trying to raise about progression by "casuals" is completely lacking definition. What where they doing to "progress?" WTF does that even mean and how could you even remotely qualify it?