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  1. #541
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moradim View Post
    at this rate, the next expansion will have no dungeons.

    dont get me wrong, I like MoP, but ffs, look at how many UNIQUE dungeons BC had. now look at the number of new instances in MoP (ignore the remakes)...it isnt many.
    This time around the remakes are some of my favorites...

  2. #542
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    I'm pleased to see more people bringing this up because I think this is what is going on.

    Keeping all of the raids relevant during an expansion, even the LFR versions, while not boxing people into the sort of gymnastics they had to do during BC--and even then not really able to catch up once far enough behind--is a substantial change in direction if that's what they're doing. The key here is the availability of LFR which has always had more use beyond the "seeing the content" stuff.

    With LFR difficulty tuned up a bit from the DS raid and the majority of the loot drama issues resolved, it's clear that Blizzard intends for it to have a major role/function in the game well beyond simply seeing the raids.
    I tend to agree. While I found the TBC model to be a great one for myself, the addition of LFR makes it a reasonable one to a much larger amount of people and a possibility worth considering.

    I feel that being able to jump straight to the latest tier takes away an important path of progression. Not only does avoiding this give the late starting players more content and a sense of improvement, but I also have a hunch that many of them are the ones who could benefit from learning the basic ABC of raiding through LFR.

    My biggest concern is that many people today might expect to be able to participate in the latest and highest end of content with a fresh maximum level character straight away, shooting any changes to counter this in the leg.

  3. #543
    The Unstoppable Force Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DetectiveJohnKimble View Post
    The person you responded to said no one ever ran H Durnholde, H Arcatraz, and H Botanica. You said people did because you could get badges, gear, and rep from those dungeons. I'm saying that's false as to dungeons like H Durnholde and Arcatraz (I disagreed with the Botanica part, but generally speaking there were only a few heroic dungeons people ever ran).

    I wasn't around for pre-nerf Kara, so maybe people did run some of those dungeons to gear up for tier 4 at first. But after that it was basically only Ramps/Mech/SP.
    They were using it as an argument against having more dungeons. I mean, I can't believe either of us is even validating that post so much. It was a throwaway post at best.

    What you said is exactly the reason why there should be new dungeons though. Some people like running dungeons, not everyone wants to raid. We are obviously going to get new raids, but why shouldn't there be new dungeons? People stop running dungeons that aren't useful anymore. It seems they should work (maybe not as hard) to provide new ones that are useful.

  4. #544
    Stood in the Fire mjolnir1122's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myzou View Post
    5.2 is coming in about May, based on what Ghostcrawler said.

    May is about 7 months after Mists came out, with no new content for the non raiders or PvPers to get gear from.

    The way they phrased WHY there's no new dungeons insinuates there will be NO NEW DUNGEONS FOR THE ENTIRE EXPANSION. They seem to think LFR has replaced dungeons in progression, period. Which is not right, in any way.
    Lmfao seriously?

    5.1 came out 2 months and a day after the expansion hit. PTR goes up in early january. So you mean to tell me were going to have a 5 month PTR period? That sounds very familiar, kind of like the people who were saying that MoP wasn't going to be out until January or February of 2013. Common sense is a beautiful thing, so just think about how ridiculous that sounds.

    But yeah, I do forget, Blizzard doesn't care at all about their players. In fact, we probably won't even see 5.3 until 2014. -_-

  5. #545
    Not sure if someone mentioned this, but I think that since there will be no new dungeons with the new patch, the previous tier of LFR should have it's weekly timeout removed. Otherwise, it will take forever for people to catch up (since RNG is such a cruel mistress).

  6. #546
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Naah not really. 40vp and they take as long as a normal 5man HC.
    If you're a dps without a healer/tank to queue with, it's much faster to do a few scenarios than a couple of dungeons.

    You can get into and complete most scenarios in about the same time it takes to just get into a dungeon if you're a dps solo queue-ing.
    I am the one who knocks ... because I need your permission to enter.

  7. #547
    their catch up mechanism is now lfr. Fantastic. Remember when that group of 5 in your dungeon gave you a headache because one or two of them were retarded. Remember that. Multiply it by 5.

  8. #548
    Just gonna ask this:

    What do you people rather want? One brand new 5-man dungeon, or 2 new scenario's?

  9. #549
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    Quote Originally Posted by McNeil View Post
    Just gonna ask this:

    What do you people rather want? One brand new 5-man dungeon, or 2 new scenario's?
    one new 5-man dungeon.

  10. #550
    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    In past expansions we had those dungeons because it was near impossible to find groups for older raids. Now with LFR it'll be much easier.
    I agree it will be easier, but the question is does it completely remove the need for dungeons in patches? I don't believe so. It would be just as bad as the current daily quests situation. LFR (for old tiers) would be tiresome; and you may have much longer queue times trying to get into an old raid. You know that once 5.2 hits, 5.1 LFR will drop dramatically; and once 5.3 hits you'll be hard to find people queueing for 5.1. At this point an alternative method of obtaining gear will be necessary. Dungeons would make most sense since they're a lot quicker and casual friendly.

  11. #551
    Quote Originally Posted by moogogaipan View Post
    FOR fucking REAL.

    It's really getting tired, that whole drama where they loose nomatter what.
    It's like team Rocket.

  12. #552
    Quote Originally Posted by Copperbolt View Post
    It's like team Rocket.
    They're blasting of agaaaaaaaaaain?

  13. #553
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Just a few points:

    1. It's OK to define 'current content' as everything in the current expansion. Some may disagree. That doesn't make them correct. It's really up to the individual player.

    2. We don't know if players will or will not accept this method or progression. There's a lot of evidence to suggest they will. Of course, some won't and will complain about it forever and ever. That being the case, BC progression or something like it has a lot of vocal fans.

    3. We don't know if this is putting players in a position where they can never catch up. LFR is one way. There might be others through JP, crafted gear, etc. Again, and this is speculation, I don't expect the mistakes of BC progression to be repeated. Access to LFR makes a difference. How much remains to be seen.

    4. We don't know enough yet to proclaim gloom and doom for the rest of the expansion.
    1. The definition for the past 4 years has been the current raid tier and the ilvl that went with the newest dungeons depending on your content. In Everquest and here, every player I've encountered considered "current" content the most recent group content released. How many players were raiding 4.1 when Firelands came out and happily considering themselves "current"? Firelands after DS came out? Current hasn't been current expac since maybe BC progression raiding. Even in Everquest where true progression is the standard, every guild I encountered that wasn't in the most recent raiding content considered themselves behind and IMO it didn't do the game any favors.

    2. It's my opinion that they won't. People who advocate progression raiding in the BC style are more than likely players who would actually "progress" regardless and the numbers of those players is a small percentage of the playerbase.

    3. They've made it fairly clear that LFR is their intended catch-up mechanism. From what I've read they don't seem to intend to drop valor gear to be justice buyable and have made no mention of any other means of gearing up. Maybe they have some secret plan, but my interpretation is they intend people to start at square one and use LFR to catch up. I admit I could be wrong, but I've seen nothing to indicate otherwise.

    4. True. But as far as I'm concerned if they don't put in a catch- up besides LFR then it's a disaster waiting to happen in terms of subscription losses.

    People will put up with a lot but this is a major design change that really wasn't advertised and changing a successful product from what it's been for 3-4 year is risky business.

  14. #554
    They want people to gear up via LFR to catch up now. They have said it multiple times too. Scenario's have nothing to do with it.

  15. #555
    Quote Originally Posted by orangelemonrain View Post
    They want people to gear up via LFR to catch up now. They have said it multiple times too. Scenario's have nothing to do with it.
    Pretty shit system then, if you can only run it once a week for several weeks and still get a sweet fuck all.

  16. #556
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thimagryn View Post
    I agree it will be easier, but the question is does it completely remove the need for dungeons in patches? I don't believe so. It would be just as bad as the current daily quests situation. LFR (for old tiers) would be tiresome; and you may have much longer queue times trying to get into an old raid. You know that once 5.2 hits, 5.1 LFR will drop dramatically; and once 5.3 hits you'll be hard to find people queueing for 5.1. At this point an alternative method of obtaining gear will be necessary. Dungeons would make most sense since they're a lot quicker and casual friendly.
    And yet they've decided to not add new dungeons in 5.2

  17. #557
    Quote Originally Posted by Thassarian View Post
    Pretty shit system then, if you can only run it once a week for several weeks and still get a sweet fuck all.
    This is specifically my problem with it as well. If they want it to compare to the Burning Crusade model then come 5.2 MSV needs at least a 35% drop rate and HoF/ToES needs at least 25%. Otherwise there are going to be people that grind everything as hard as they can and still end up buying off-spec valor gear just to reach the ilvl needed to run the next LFR assuming it's at least 480. They realized this already by making that valor gear available so people didn't have to have the best of luck to get into HoF/ToES by gearing up only in MSV.
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    Jade Serpent Statue: "The statue will also begin casting Soothing Mist on your target. healing for 50% as much as yours. "
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  18. #558
    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    And yet they've decided to not add new dungeons in 5.2
    Because the barrier of entry of LFR 5.2 is low enough for fresh 90's to catch up without needing new dungeons. Won't be the case with later raids.

    Example.

    Ulduar came out in 3.1, a giant raid with 12 bosses. No dungeon added. The barrier of entry for Ulduar was relatively low still, especially fresh out of Naxx. Even if you skipped Naxx, you could go into Ulduar with dungeon heroics gear and do decently (in fact, a guild did Ulduar in full blues while it was still relevant to prove the 'skill > gear' point).

    3.2 added a new dungeon which dropped Ulduar 10-man equivalent gear. This was to even up the barrier of entry for new lvl 80's to get into Trials of the Crusader. Trials of the Champion (dungeon) still had an ilvl requirement though, so you needed to run the regular heroics too. This dungeon was added to bridge new players coming back to WoW to raid relevant content.

    LFR is not a bridge for content. LFR is a raid mode that parallels normal/heroic raids with a lower entry level for casual players. As the tiers get raised, the ilvl requirements for LFR will go up, and fresh 90's will have little way of getting gear to catch up and get into new raids (or LFR). That's what new dungeons are there for. People will not be expected to run old raids from 2-3 patches ago to catch up to current content.
    Last edited by Thimagryn; 2012-12-29 at 01:45 AM.

  19. #559
    lol no more content until may? i sense a huge decrease of players alá cataclysM

  20. #560
    Banned But I Hate You All's Avatar
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    They promised faster content patchs. Seems faster content patch = less content

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-28 at 05:55 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by NSrm View Post
    lol no more content until may? i sense a huge decrease of players alá cataclysM
    Mop feels like Cata 2.0

    that's just my option tho

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