Patch 5.2, disappointment for people returning to raids.

[Aquamonkey]

Requiring you to run LFR of prior tiers in order to gear for raids is far better than just tossing gear at your characters. Why?

Very simple. Why would I be interested in getting someone who hasn't played the game in years, or even Ever, to run current content? They need to invest time in learning/relearning their character. While not the *greatest* way to teach you how to play, LFR is better than "I ran some Heroics and did some dailies for two days, I am READY TO RAID!".

Hey, now. They wouldn't have added that achievement if the person wasn't ready for raiding.

[Banzhe]

I hope they don't bump any gear down to jp.

Gear up though LFR. After all, the LFR wasn't meant just for the hardcore no-lifers who play wow all the time, everyone including the casual players deserves to play though it. In fact, it would be awesome if you had to grind though all available LFR tiers before being raid-ready. This way you would see all of the amazing content Blizzard rolled out for you over the course of the expansion.

^This tbh.

I think the real question these days should be; Why do everyone expect blizzard to carry them to the very end-game?

It is about high time that blizzard is focusing on the subscribers they have, and not what they potentially could bring in!
I understand that at times some players are moving away from the game through no fault of their own.., could be studies / work / family related etc, but that still doesn't mean that blizzard should have to compromise in developing current content for the subscribers they have, just to enable some highway gearing options for those who aren't subscribing, and in particular to those who may be subscribed, but just can't be bothered putting in the effort =/= time to get to the stage they want.

If people want to raid, there are already plenty of venues they could seek to bring their gear up to an acceptable level, but it seems a hell of lot are focusing on complaining instead of actually putting in some time.., if a player feels that putting in time to get to that level isn't fun, then why even play the game to begin with.., the expansion is only 3½ months old, and will still be here for another 8 months.

Hey, now. They wouldn't have added that achievement if the person wasn't ready for raiding.

I have to agree, when ever I see an applicant with experience stretching back to Tbc, he / she instantly gets a trial provided they've raided regularly and with no breaks constantly, and I've yet to see anyone with that profile be bad.., but I've seen plenty of players rocking amazing gear in both Wrath, Cata and MoP, yet constantly fucking up and doing shitty output.

Achievement that says ready for raiding is as worthless as the "paper" it's printed on.

[Dravelar]

i choose this quote cause it was first.

Does onyone who says so posses any proff of this ? any blue or q&a quote ? and what if this doesn't happen ?



cant wait for all those "were making t14 crz run - all sha touched weapons reserved min itlv 500"

Make your own pug then,it's not that hard

[h4rr0d]

That is a fair point, but the same thing can be put on the other side of the coin. I will have to get 9 people to come back and do old content to try and catch me up, whilst not being able to start the new patch fresh. I think they should give the 5 man dungeons so people have to put in effort to gear but do not have to get a whole guild to come raid a particular instance to be "able to do the next patch". Pugs are always an opinion too, we all know pugs are not reliable and on some servers do not happen at a reasonable level.

No, you will have to get 24 people to come back and do old (and for them also overfarmed) content to catch you up - you can't realistically expect to gear one person up with 10man drops in reasonable ammount of time to catch up with progerssion group. Basically it's attunements all over again, but instead of needing just one run to get bunch of people attuned, you have to grind that place ad nauseam whilst also relying on RNG to get the drops right...

[NightZero88]

I love all these people who are saying get your raiders to go back and do the old content with you! I'm sorry, but nobody wants to do that. I've been doing this tier since it released and will likely do it until next tier releases. At that point, even if I wanted a raider to come back I sure as heck wouldn't run it again for weeks and NOT run the current tier just to gear someone up and I would be willing to bet money that all the people saying he should do that wouldn't do it either.

I raid with people I've raided with for 7 years and I still wouldn't do it. Content is boring as hell, I raid to have fun but even despite that I've been doing it for months, I don't want to do it more when I could be on to something else. For example, we had a lock get his legendary in FL after the new tier and even though I had EVERY raider in my 10m say they would be on to help him get it not a single person showed up outside of like 2 of us when the raids were scheduled. He had to pug it. Sure, you may say you'll help but you won't when the time comes. Each time a new tier comes out people are sick of the last one, nobody wants to stay there for another month to gear someone, even if they are a friend.

Also, 85% of you people need to actually read the OP instead of just saying: He wants lewt for free he should be forced to spend 6 months on it like me!!!!!111

[Zubacz]

It amazes me that someone would put so much effort in to writing such a long post and not think about the lack of logic in what they are writing.
- "avearge players" don't come back to playing at planned dates. Very few observe the date of new content and log then, for the first time. Why don't you come 2 weeks earlier and get some loot that your guild will have disenchanted?
- BoE 496 epics will be very cheap by then. I don't think a blood spirit will be over 1k gold. DMF trinkets will still be amazinlgy good.
- Again, why not log in a while earlier and get some Shieldwall items?

Overall this thread seems like one more of "I don't want to put effort into XXXX and Blizzard does not cater to my individual situation, hence to me it looks like a general problem".

[Kesandri]

I am sure its been mentioned however why is it such a problem for a new guild returning to raid the previous content first? Why have you got to jump straight into the new tier 15 when you havnt set foot in tier 14 at all?
If you dont want to do the previous tier (which again, u havnt seen so far) then you have LFR to obtain gear enough for raiding, I really dont see what the problem is here.

I really dont get this mindset of 'I havnt played the game for a long while but want to join in straight away again with the current raiders', go back do the content you have not done yet and work on from there :/

The last 5 mans created in cata were a complete waste of time imo, not only were they useless for my char when they released I didnt even have an urge to take an alt through them either, it was a complete waste of development time the way I saw it as did many of my friends.

[Totle]

I really don't see this happening

Why? It's happened with every single patch since the beginning of Wrath when we had emblems of heroism, etc.

Every new patch with content would also release new VP items and the previous tier would be downgraded to the lesser currency.

[zaneosak]

I personally love the old everquest model where if you make a new guild or reform a guild, you go back a tier and re-gear up, go through the motions. AKA the Vanilla/TBC model as well. LOVE IT, hope they never add a new 5 man after releases again.

[Kesandri]

Also, 85% of you people need to actually read the OP instead of just saying: He wants lewt for free he should be forced to spend 6 months on it like me!!!!!111

Actually hes basically saying he wants to be able to farm the gear for raiding within a few days/a week to jump into the current raiding tier, and many people in this thread do not like that model (the cata model). I personally feel if someone has been out of hte game for a while they should do the previous raid tier first or at least experiance it.

[Maelstrom51]

What is so bad about going back through 5.0 content for a couple of months. If you are in a guild environment normal should be a breeze, especially considering they will be nerfing the content in 5.2. If you could provide a legitimate reason as to why this kind of PvE progression is bad then go ahead, i'd love to hear it.

Gear resets should happen each expansion, not every 6 months. It invalidates amazing content that should be a staple in the game all the way through the expansion.

Mostly because those who are already geared won't want to go back to old content, and there likely won't be any guilds/groups focusing on old content. And if there are, they will be poached from constantly due to the limited amount of fresh blood entering the new raids.

[Kesandri]

Mostly because those who are already geared won't want to go back to old content, and there likely won't be any guilds/groups focusing on old content. And if there are, they will be poached from constantly due to the limited amount of fresh blood entering the new raids.

After a few patches of odopting this model you would see more guilds doing this tho, as we did back in previous expansions. Just because they arnt doing it now doesnt mean they wont if the system moves them towards that way.

I am not a vanilla/tbc fanboy, in fact I think wow is in a much better place these days but the one good thing that came from those times, was a number of guilds raiding different raid tiers because thats how the system worked, I loved that system and IF blizzard go back in that direction and stick with it, I personally believe it would be for the better.
The only reason I dont believe we will ever fully go back there is because of LFR.

[mercutiouk]

I hope they don't bump any gear down to jp.

Gear up though LFR. After all, the LFR wasn't meant just for the hardcore no-lifers who play wow all the time, everyone including the casual players deserves to play though it. In fact, it would be awesome if you had to grind though all available LFR tiers before being raid-ready. This way you would see all of the amazing content Blizzard rolled out for you over the course of the expansion.

This may attract "haters" but I think it's actually a valid point. NOT having the 5 mans with instantly available "ok" gear means folks are required to put a LITTLE time and effort into gearing up. While most people seem to think it unfair to have to put anything into the game to get to the current bleeding edge content this IS how wow originated, there were no huge shortcuts and it needed a little time spent getting to know the instances, mechanics and play-style required to raid.

The problem with "old wow's" way of doing this is that it required basically a whole guild full of people to spend time blowing through content that was on "mind-numbingly pointless" levels of farm or completely mindless grinds for tiny rep gain. We now have LFR, it actually requires a little raiding to get raid applicable gear and/or a reasonably dull daily quest grind. While this is likely to annoy a fair amount of the "want it now" types WoW has come to cater to, part of the reason WoW was so successful to begin with and why raiding was so revered was it actually took a small amount of effort.

If you get raid entry gear handed out on the backs of cereal packets and in jars of coffee it's rather too simple, the character journey which is at least 1/3 of the appeal of the game is removed. Give a "well lit" and easily understood gear path for people to follow to reach the "front of the pack" and there's something to go after. It's the dogs chasing cars effect, what's the fun in running after it if it stops to let you catch up?

Get the blinkers off folks, this is WoW slowly finding the balance between what made it epic to begin with (seeing people around you with better gear and more experience who you wanted to emulate) and what made it accessible and popular (dailies, tokens, small group stuff which scenario's are definitely helping to fill). With a LITTLE more balancing and a few more ways to earn decent amounts of valor and rep (even mob grinds and VERY low rep tabards) and a tiny bit more fun/flavour put back into the crafting system it might finally be worth spending a decent amount of time on again.

[ZenX]

No, WoW may be a trailer park MMO, but its still an MMO not a blockbuster movie and gear-reset unless you are a hardcore raider, kills the expansion as it cuts down the challenge the available content provides, significiantly.

So, no.

[DarkPassanger]

489 and 496 Valor Gear will likely be bumped down to Justice Points. That's more than enough to get caught up if you're behind.

Totally agree on this one. As usual what Blizzard do when release the new content. Old gear becomes JP and New one VP

[loki504]

Using this method, grinding the JP and VP as well as relying on LFR will still probably exclude you from a decent ilvl by the start of patch 5.2, once again the problem continues. I will continue to say this, as it is being looked past but giving people the chance to participate at the start of a patch isn't giving them the "easy way out" as for the players who are serious this patch, you will still have huge advantages, it is just about giving people a chance to be decent and not have to be stuck in old content whilst friends and people talk about all the new things. This is about being fair to both sides e.g. Not having the 5 man dungeon gear being obsolete but not making people rely on LFR and nerfed old content before they can have a shot at the new stuff.

and i will say again. TBC was far worse. its SO easy to get geared to enter raids its not even fun.
get some crafted gear. and gear from jp. will bring you up to the right ilvl. and if your missing a few jp items. go get the pvp parts. there pretty decent for pve.

its not needed when your ALT hits 90 to be 5.2 raid rdy in 2 days...

[fangless]

So, you want to basically bypass content to do the newest and greatest? Good way to sit there twiddling your thumbs waiting for more content.



This gearing path is how it used to be, and how it should be. You have things to look forward to, more new raids once your gear gets to that next threshold. That's exciting.

Logging in and skipping a tier or two isn't excited, and you're selling yourself short to boot.

[Deleted]

this discussion is totally pointless, if you want to raid ToT why not resuscribe now and prepare for it like decent raiders do? man you have more then 2 months for it, plenty of time.

[Gsara]

You could be running with them now on farm nights to soak up gear. You dont need anything higher than lfr gear to pull your weight in t14. Quit a few people started t14 heroics in blues and a few 489's and progressed so if you started gearing now you would be caught up by spring when 5.2 will be released.

[NightZero88]

So, you want to basically bypass content to do the newest and greatest? Good way to sit there twiddling your thumbs waiting for more content.



This gearing path is how it used to be, and how it should be. You have things to look forward to, more new raids once your gear gets to that next threshold. That's exciting.

Logging in and skipping a tier or two isn't excited, and you're selling yourself short to boot.

Yes, he wants to skip outdated content. I fail to see why he shouldn't be able too. If I rejoined WoW I wouldn't want to go do old tiers, probably because nobody wants to do them anymore and finding a group would be a major hassle. If 5.2 is released and I join the game I want to do 5.2. I don't want to do 5.1 just because I came later. Just because you feel like since you spent several months grinding the content I am required to as well doesn't make it right.