Patch 5.2, disappointment for people returning to raids.

[Squirl]

Justice points are harder to get than valor....

In 5.2, excess VP becomes JP. I believe the overflow is also boosted by the 50% VP buff once you hit cap.

[DetectiveJohnKimble]

Wow, this is a stretch. Old content is old content because of when it was released not because it is old to the player. Maybe you don't mind playing 6+ month old content when you first start a game but I'd rather get to the current stuff personally.

This is completely off base from how WoW operated in most of BC and Wotlk. In BC, the later patches offered some additional high ilvl items, but they weren't as plentiful as Cata dungeons and they were much more difficult to get than just running easy dungeons repeatedly. People were fine with it then- in fact, WoW's subs were highest at that point.

A game being released 6 months ago doesn't mean it's not worth playing purely because it was released 6 months ago. That's just stupid when you think about how most people buy and play games today. What makes less sense is a new player coming in and saying that they only want to play the most recently released content purely because it was the most recently released content, and ignore the slightly older content that could potentially be fun for them to experience. Again, I didn't see many people in BC who were hitting 70 and thinking "Well, now that I hit max level, I should look into Sunwell Plateau." It would have sucked for me (even if I didn't realize it at the time) if I had that mentality (and Blizzard had a free epics system to support it) and I ended up skipping raids like Kara and SSC. This being a gear treadmill game doesn't invalidate the older content- Blizzard can just make the treadmill longer.

[Deleted]

I believe the overflow is also boosted by the 50% VP buff once you hit cap.

Interesting had not thought of that! Any confirmation of that? Or just a gut felling?

[Deleted]

Give back the TBC gear mechanism :<

[Dakara]

By the way, a BLUE poster stated and I'm paraphrasing: Why bother gearing up and rushing through content (referring to dailies) if all you're going to do is LFR? It's hardly needed.

If people are only running LFR then this discussion doesn't really apply to them because they don't need to gear up quickly. This discussion is about gearing people up quickly so they can switch specs, play an alt or for new players/returning players who want to get caught up so they can raid the new tier.

And all your gear is replaced. Not as quickly as 2 hours sure, but why should I bother gemming or enchanting my LFR drop, I could replace it in normal the next night right? You can't make the claim why bother doing X because your gear will be replaced because that is the nature of the game. That legendary you spent months working on, guess what, replaced next tier. So why bother?

And yes, I can certainly agree to a downside I just don't think the ones people are suggesting are valid. If a new 5 man dungeon gave out epics that were below the current LFR it would supplement everything you are suggesting as ways to currently gear. The gear from LFR would be better. The gear from valor now turned JP would be much better. It would just also allow you to not have to pray to the RNG Gods to get some loot from LFR. So if you can give me a reason why new heroics dropping say..476 ilevel epics is bad then that's one thing but so far nobody has given a good reason why.

As I said. The Catch up for gear is the Valor Gear going to Justice points.

Creating several new 5 mans for the sole reason of allowing a select few players (as you put it) to gear alts/off-spec's/catch up is not worth it. The vast majority of players would rather that Development time be spent making better raids now that they're vastly more accessable via LFR.

At the end of the day, in past expansions, the new 5 mans only had minor upgrades for a few slots (if any) for most players, and were simply slotted into the Random dungeon que while we farmed badges/points to buy last tiers gear. We can do that without adding new dungeons.

[Wildmoon]

You can just buy valor gear with justice point in 5.2 so what's the point here?

[Squirl]

Interesting had not thought of that! Any confirmation of that? Or just a gut felling?

The overflow VP becoming JP is fact. The boost part is just conjecture. If it were coded/designed with any sense, the boost would apply.

[NightZero88]

As I said. The Catch up for gear is the Valor Gear going to Justice points.

Creating several new 5 mans for the sole reason of allowing a select few players (as you put it) to gear alts/off-spec's/catch up is not worth it. The vast majority of players would rather that Development time be spent making better raids now that they're vastly more accessable via LFR.

At the end of the day, in past expansions, the new 5 mans only had minor upgrades for a few slots (if any) for most players, and were simply slotted into the Random dungeon que while we farmed badges/points to buy last tiers gear. We can do that without adding new dungeons.

Blue posters quite frequently post about different teams. Are you sure the team that makes heroics is the same team that makes raids? Can you say for sure that if they don't include new heroics there will be more time spent making more bosses in the next raid and that it will come out sooner?

Yes, you can just buy a whole new set, that's true. But it's faster to gear with the chance at drops AND at buying gear with JP. We really have no way of knowing how they will change JP but if you need to cap VP first before it converts to JP then get tons of JP to buy each piece that is going to take a LOT of farming. I run 16/16 LFR, 1 scenario everyday and 2 heroics on two days just to cap VP alone and that's a lot of time spent getting points. Now you want to add more if I wanted to get the bonus JP? Seems kinda ridiculous don't you think?

[Dakara]

Wow, this is a stretch. Old content is old content because of when it was released not because it is old to the player. Maybe you don't mind playing 6+ month old content when you first start a game but I'd rather get to the current stuff personally.

This cracks me up.

I'm sure I'm not alone playing most games 2+ years after they were initially released.... (because I wait for 75% off on Steam!).
I quit WOW a month after MOP release, and will likely be coming back for 5.2. I look forward to having multiple raid options available to me at once (all *new* to me) instead of farming one to death waiting for the next one, and so on and so forth.

My 2c

---------- Post added 2012-12-28 at 07:45 PM ----------

Blue posters quite frequently post about different teams. Are you sure the team that makes heroics is the same team that makes raids? Can you say for sure that if they don't include new heroics there will be more time spent making more bosses in the next raid and that it will come out sooner?

Paraphrasing, but yes. That is what I'm saying, and that is what Blizzard said.

5 Man Heroics require almost the same amount of Dev time as raids, and iirc it's the same team, but even if it's a separate team, the 5 man dev's could easily slide into raids. At the end of the day, the only difference between a raid and a series of 5 mans is the scaling of number of players.

Blizzard openly said, that the new model (with the introduction of LFR) was to make bigger and better raids at the cost of 5 mans since LFR opens raids up to everyone. Pre LFR they were unable to do this as raids were still off-limits to many players who couldn't commit to raid schedules.

[Deleted]

15 raid boss in a single patch, not gonna be disappointed here in regard of raid. (well 14 for me, no way my guild will ever manage to do heroics. They're too retarded for that, but I still love them <3)

[NightZero88]

This cracks me up.

I'm sure I'm not alone playing most games 2+ years after they were initially released.... (because I wait for 75% off on Steam!).
I quit WOW a month after MOP release, and will likely be coming back for 5.2. I look forward to having multiple raid options available to me at once (all *new* to me) instead of farming one to death waiting for the next one, and so on and so forth.

My 2c

I'm sure you're not alone. I'm also sure you're not the majority or anywhere close to it of gamers. And again, comparing different tiers of raiding to an entire game is silly and doesn't apply.

[Deleted]

This cracks me up.

I'm sure I'm not alone playing most games 2+ years after they were initially released.... (because I wait for 75% off on Steam!).
I quit WOW a month after MOP release, and will likely be coming back for 5.2. I look forward to having multiple raid options available to me at once (all *new* to me) instead of farming one to death waiting for the next one, and so on and so forth.

My 2c

Idd, one thing that for me made Cata so boring (I actually almost unsubbed!!!) was that each tier was only about the content released with that tier.

4.1 Smash you face into ZG and ZA over and over again (I almost vomit at that thought!) (never ever did the release 5 mans ever again).

4.3 Smash your face into CoT 5 mans over and over again and then smash you face into DS (never ever did the release 5 mans or ZA/ZG ever again).

There is so so much amazing content in wow, lets try to keep people running as much of it as we can!

I am very intrested to see if the 5.0 Raids in LFR will offer the same amount of Valor and or how it will be adjusted.

I think making it just reward JP will make lots of people not run it, but keeping it at a "good" amount of Valor (70 maybe?) people who really like to raid might still run it.

I think variety is good! (MoP more than any other expansion has taught me that!) lets try to keep that not destroy it!

[Dakara]

Idd, one thing that for me made Cata so boring (I actually almost unsubbed!!!) was that each tier was only about the content released with that tier.

4.1 Smash you face into ZG and ZA over and over again (I almost vomit at that thought!) (never ever did the release 5 mans ever again).

4.3 Samsh your face into CoT 5 mans over and over again and then smash you face into DS (never ever did the release 5 mans or ZA/ZG ever again).

There is so so much amazing content in wow, lets try to keep people running as much of it as we can!

Yep.

/puts on rose tinted goggles...

Back in Vanilla, we ran every raid, every week in guild... admittedly I was a tad younger then and didn't have a Wife/Kids so my time was my own, but it was great fun smashing through old content.... and the content was current because for certain classes/specs, there were still BiS (or close to it) drops in older raids, and without "valor" gear, it was another way to fill the gaps while waiting for RNG.

My Rogue didn't get Perdition's Blade until we were in Naxx40!

[NightZero88]

Idd, one thing that for me made Cata so boring (I actually almost unsubbed!!!) was that each tier was only about the content released with that tier.

4.1 Smash you face into ZG and ZA over and over again (I almost vomit at that thought!) (never ever did the release 5 mans ever again).

4.3 Smash your face into CoT 5 mans over and over again and then smash you face into DS (never ever did the release 5 mans or ZA/ZG ever again).

There is so so much amazing content in wow, lets try to keep people running as much of it as we can!

I am very intrested to see if the 5.0 Raids in LFR will offer the same amount of Valor and or how it will be adjusted.

I think making it just reward JP will make lots of people not run it, but keeping it at a "good" amount of Valor (70 maybe?) people who really like to raid might still run it.

I think variety is good! (MoP more than any other expansion has taught me that!) lets try to keep that not destroy it!

Ok..this I don't get. Currently I'll spend months smashing my face into the current 3 raids but then you want me to continue to smashing my face into them next tier? That makes it worse than what you were just complaining about with the heroics because not only is it over 1 tier you want to extend into the next one too?

[Minaah]

With the fact that the 5.2 patch has not even hit the PTR yet, and after it does, probably in early Jan-- we're still going to have 2-3 months, before its on live servers. That's more than enough time to start playing again, grind out the basic rep needed for fast upgrade slots, run some T14 w/your guildies and friends, as I would assume they are planning to farm it til 5.2 actually hits. The theme of MOP has been: options, options, options! And that means, there is always a way to get caught up, as long as the person is willing to put in a modicum of effort and time, or at the very least, ask guildies or friends for a little 'carry'.

[fangless]

Yep.

/puts on rose tinted goggles...

Back in Vanilla, we ran every raid, every week in guild... admittedly I was a tad younger then and didn't have a Wife/Kids so my time was my own, but it was great fun smashing through old content.... and the content was current because for certain classes/specs, there were still BiS (or close to it) drops in older raids, and without "valor" gear, it was another way to fill the gaps while waiting for RNG.

My Rogue didn't get Perdition's Blade until we were in Naxx40!

I remember doing Mc non-stop throughout Vanilla... though not because it was fun, but because we wanted to get more Legendaries lol. Same with BWL. We did both even though we were working on AQ and then eventually Naxx.


edit: I also hate the term/idea of being "caught up". What good would skipping this tier do, just to want to "get caught up" and start at ToT? You're just as likely to skip their tier too, and wait for the next raid...

Who is saying you have to be at the most current content on day 1? Why don't you make your journey start from the beginning, and experience it all? Skipping stuff is what causes the attitude of "I'm bored, this expansion sucked, I want more to do".

[Ranaas]

it is so annoying to see that ppl not even considering NORMAL raids as a source of loot.

It is better for newcomers. You will experience the old content how we experienced as we started raiding then you will move onto 5.2 raid.

Awesomesouce for me

[Dakara]

I remember doing Mc non-stop throughout Vanilla... though not because it was fun, but because we wanted to get more Legendaries lol. Same with BWL. We did both even though we were working on AQ and then eventually Naxx.

Yea, we did it for the loot, but in many ways we had more fun zerging MC/BWL than we did progressing into Naxx... probably because we spent most of the time talking smack on vent and paying very little attention to what we were actually doing.

[Deleted]

Ok..this I don't get. Currently I'll spend months smashing my face into the current 3 raids but then you want me to continue to smashing my face into them next tier? That makes it worse than what you were just complaining about with the heroics because not only is it over 1 tier you want to extend into the next one too?

No I want there to be options.

I want the content set to grow not shrink.

Earning Valor is one of the main ways of progressing your gear, having loads of options makes this fun not tedious.

In 5.3 1 week I might run the old LFR because I have everything I want from new LFR, or maybe I don't want to do 5 mans that week.

We all know at the start of an expansion there will be a massive content flood (16 Raid Bosses, 9 5 Mans etc)

If 5.3 gets released I want to have the option of running 29 raid bosses not 13, more scenerios etc etc

When 4.1 got released I went from doing 10 5 mans to just doing 2 to gain my Valor (q's where quicker, gear was to good, chance of epic enchanting mats etc etc).

When 4.3 got released I went from doing ZA/ZG to doing CoT Heroics (by this time trying to run the old 4.0 dungeons was horrible as they where in fact far more difficult than the CoT heroics in a pug as you got brand new 85s trying to gear up for CoT Heroics).

I want more ways to earn my valor, not less.

See what I am trying to say?

[Dakara]

Ok..this I don't get. Currently I'll spend months smashing my face into the current 3 raids but then you want me to continue to smashing my face into them next tier? That makes it worse than what you were just complaining about with the heroics because not only is it over 1 tier you want to extend into the next one too?

If you're spending months doing the current 3 raids then you wont need to be caught up. Alts/Off-specs? Well aren't you doing LFR at the moment on them? The main purpose of the "catch up" is for new players.

But that being said, you only do a raid once per week (per toon) whereas 5 mans you can do 10 in a day (or more). Many people still enjoy raids long after they were released provided it's mixed in with new content.