Patch 5.2, disappointment for people returning to raids.

[Pilek01]

I hope all the whiners quit.
first people cry that vanilla and tbc was the best, now they cry blizz returned to the vanilla and tbc progression model... -.-
You know if a new raid comes out you should not be ALLOWED to enter it if you slacked the rest of the expansion. Progression = raid1 > raid 2 > raid 3.
Doesnt matter if raid 3 is already out, people should do the first ones to get geared for the next one and so on.
Blizzard i thank you for resigning from the stupid 5 man catch up's

[Spacepunch]

why would you think that just because you start later it should be easier for to do what everyone else had to grin and bear? If LFR and 5-man is your end game then idk why so many ppl are complaining, you all want to hit 90 and be able to just raid current content? too bad get over yourselves and start the grind.

[KrazyK923]

In classic you got unique content for each type of players.

Yeah I remember BWL where half of the boss fights were tank and spank with 1 mechanic. SO UNIQUE *swoons*

[Deleted]

WOW is now run by a second rate design team. In classic you got unique content for each type of players. Now its ridiculous raid have 5 different versions and dungeons 3 versions. They have gotten so lazy, quality is no longer a consideration at blizzard.

Next expansion you will have one instance with 12 different modes and thats going be it:
solo level up 91-95,
solo daily quest version
scenario 3 man version
5 man normal, heroic, challenge
10 man lfr, normal, heroic
25 man lfr, normal, heroic

So I just really want to be clear what your suggesting here because I do not in any way shape of form understand what this has to do with this thread.

In Vanilla people who only run 20 man runs (which is comparable to people who now run 10 mans) got ZG and AQ20 that is it.

You think now they would be happy if for an entire expansion (lets call it 18 months) they got 12 raid bosses.

Because that is what ZG + AQ20 was 12 Bosses for the entire expansion if you don't raid 40 mans (25 mans now).

So I think what you saying is we should go back to the Vanilla model and people who run 10 mans will get shafted by only have 12 bosses for the entire expansion, no thanks I would rather slit my wrists.

I don't think in MoP blizzard is lazy at all, I am waiting with baited breath to see if they can keep up the steady flow of content, and I will not crown MoP as the best expansion in WoW history till we do not get a repeat of 4.3 where all I did for 9 months was run the same 3 5 mans till I wanted to Vomit and DS over and over and over again.

[-KeenaM-]

Yeah I remember BWL where half of the boss fights were tank and spank with 1 mechanic. SO UNIQUE *swoons*

Because "raiding" is all the content? What about world PvP and leveling?

[Deleted]

I hope all the whiners quit.
first people cry that vanilla and tbc was the best, now they cry blizz returned to the vanilla and tbc progression model... -.-
You know if a new raid comes out you should not be ALLOWED to enter it if you slacked the rest of the expansion. Progression = raid1 > raid 2 > raid 3.
Doesnt matter if raid 3 is already out, people should do the first ones to get geared for the next one and so on.
Blizzard i thank you for resigning from the stupid 5 man catch up's

The problem is that even if they quit the will still come to these forums and moan about how amazing TBC was and MoP is now "A kids game" blah blah blah.

It is so very very boring.

[Ceece]

Oh, I hope Blizzard knows what they're doing, not that I'm against the idea of ladder progression. Harder to play catch up might be harder to recruit individuals for raiding purposes. Not saying every guild is having trouble with this. I guess we will see how it plays out. That's if vp gear is bumped to jp. Praying that it isn't and we see an increase ilevel on vp gear, with gearing up being mostly from raiding. I know it's a stupid idea to some, especially those who like to play multiple alts. The current system is fabulous. It's not like we need attunements back to gate every dungeon... or do we?

[KrazyK923]

Because "raiding" is all the content? What about world PvP and leveling?

...is this a serious comment? The person said this in reference to the raiding in Vanilla vs now.

[Kraenen]

Yeah I remember BWL where half of the boss fights were tank and spank with 1 mechanic. SO UNIQUE *swoons*

I guess nothing is unique when you think about it

[Vladar]

Yeah I remember BWL where half of the boss fights were tank and spank with 1 mechanic. SO UNIQUE *swoons*

What boss in BWL is tank and spank with 1 mechanic ? Have you ever been in BWL ?

[Porimlys]

i seriously hate how blizz is doing things now. LFR is, in my opinion bad for casual players. i play a frost dk, and the que time for LFR is about 45 mins for me, what kind of que time is that for casual players. im not a casual player, i raid and all, but i stopped doing lfr being the que times are ridiculous. 45mins waiting to get in and then another hour, if im lucky to finish it, its so stupid

They should maybe add a random LFR function, that might solve the problem if the rewards are good enough.

[Kanadei]

I guess nothing is unique when you think about it

Admittedly... 3 bosses in BWL had the exact same model. You can't really argue that there wasn't a bit of repetition there.

[Deleted]

WOW is now run by a second rate design team. In classic you got unique content for each type of players. Now its ridiculous raid have 5 different versions and dungeons 3 versions. They have gotten so lazy, quality is no longer a consideration at blizzard.

Next expansion you will have one instance with 12 different modes and thats going be it:
solo level up 91-95,
solo daily quest version
scenario 3 man version
5 man normal, heroic, challenge
10 man lfr, normal, heroic
25 man lfr, normal, heroic

its not about lazy design team


its about nubs and so called cassuals that wants to have everything without putting some effort to get it.

Yes its always the easies way to blame blizzard.

[Deleted]

Sorry to dissappoint you but the gearing is not a problem. I am 90 with my dk twink for about a week and have i lvl 478. You can get klaxxi exalted in 4 days farming. There are 2 ilvl 496 craft itesm random drops for cloak, ring, neck, pants, the darkmoon trinket and so on.

[KrazyK923]

What boss in BWL is tank and spank with 1 mechanic ? Have you ever been in BWL ?

The three dragons were tank and spank with 1 mechanic. They even had the same models.

The only "unique" fights in BWL were Razorgore (Only because of the MC mechanic), Vael, Chromag, and Nef. Even Broodlord was just a massive heal dump on the tanks. I'm not saying these fights were not fun. They were, back then. But pretending that the boss fights have not evolved is just having straight head-up-the-ass false nostalgia. Things were new. That was it.

[mercutiouk]

To save long replies to specific posts and people getting all defensive etc there's a few pretty simple setups that I'd rather expect Blizz to put in to allow the gearing progression etc to be much less painful.

1) Vastly increased random drop rate on older LFR content
2) Increase the number of extra roll coins available per week, they've already stated the coins will be different in each tier.
3) In relation to the above, allow unlimited rolls until coins are used so folks can really push at getting pieces they need
4) Go back to the TBC method of crafting progression where each tier the "rare item" needed for crafting that pushed the price up was more widely available & tradeable while a new one came out with the new tier.

I'm sure there's tonnes of options to go for I haven't even considered. If they don't - it'll take about 2 raids to get people geared up to a usable level if they need the help.
There's so many people moaning about a lack of community - I'm not quite sure what community they expect but one that takes responsibility for gearing up their own alts and friends rather than expecting hand-outs is probably a good start.
There's so many people moaning about a lack of skills - so having a well lit "road" folks travel to get to the bleeding edge content isn't really a bad thing
There's so many people moaning about little content - so rather than putting a short-cut in that makes most of it irrelevant it would make more sense to expect people to play through previous tiers to gear up. If the shortcut isn't there most (non-dead) servers can expect pugs of various content to go get their gear.

I've dinged a new 90 about... 2 weeks ago. Already 479 ilvl and rising without hand-holding from friends/guild or shortcuts to raiding. It's not taken huge moneybags either (say... 15k?) and in 2 weeks of LFR I think I've pulled 1 piece of gear from it. I'd much prefer taking that route to "ok, run these 2/3 5-mans till ur sick to death of them for a week then you can come raid". That feels MUCH less rewarding/interesting.

There's ZERO reason for the community to be pissed if they don't get automatic rights to immediately play new content. It would be a shame to make the most of content you haven't completed yet despite paying for it...

[khalltusk]

What boss in BWL is tank and spank with 1 mechanic ? Have you ever been in BWL ?

Oh boy I almost PMSL.

3 drakes as said earlier were tank and spank, the 1st of which we used the line of sight tactic to avoid getting too many debuffs.
vael was tank and spank. He really was.
Broodlord was tank and spank.

thats 5 bosses, leaving Chrom Raz and Nef. Did you do BWL?

[Deleted]

Snip qq

Yes, 463 is heroic gear, but you still have sha / galleon / vp gear / end reputation gear / gear upgrade system / boe gear, crafted gear, in addition all VP gear will be available for JP in 5.2 You also have lfr and normals left.
They will also up the droprate from older lfr dungeons.

I managed to get 472 ilvl 2nd week of dinging 90 on my warlock, almost revered with most dailies due to commendations from main.
Its not hard and it wont be an issue in 5.2.
Just put half the effort you did in writing this post and you'll be fine...

[Vladar]

Oh boy I almost PMSL.

3 drakes as said earlier were tank and spank, the 1st of which we used the line of sight tactic to avoid getting too many debuffs.
vael was tank and spank. He really was.
Broodlord was tank and spank.

thats 5 bosses, leaving Chrom Raz and Nef. Did you do BWL?

Look it up all bosses in BWL have at least 5 abilities. True that the last 2 drakes were pretty lame, but it doesnt even come close to a LFR where its just a big zerg with 0% of dying.

By your definition tank and spank is a fight requiring a tank, that's pretty all encounters in the game.

http://www.wowhead.com/zone=2677#comments

[BrerBear]

If you're trying to argue that the BWL fights were anywhere near as complex as current raids -- which it seems you are -- you are really flat out wrong. BWL fights were mostly very simple, and you're counting boss "abilities" like summoning a player to them if no one is in melee range.
Any heroic fight in Mogu'Shan is more complex than the most complicated BWL fight (Nef). And trying to compare the dumbed-down LFR versions isn't fair in the least.
No matter what your opinion is of this game, claiming that encounter design hasn't progressed for the better since Classic is downright silly.