[Theory] The reason for mass bot appearance in MoP BG's

[howdydiddlydoo]

Massive botting in BG's started in MoP. Bots always existed sure, but a massive sweep of BG bots started in MoP. There is a logical reason for this.

The reason people bot in BG's is because PvE gear is now utterly useless in PvP.

I take myself as an example -

In previous expansions, i would raid with my guild, and when i got upgrades, i would love to test them in BG's for FUN. Now that fun has been taken away, i simply boycott BG's because there is no fun in working your ass off for useless BG items.

Other PvE people are not like me. They still like to have fun in BG's but do not like to get destroyed by using usless PvE items that have taken them weeks to acquire. Therefore, they bot......................lots of them bot.

BG's are not restricted to people that like PvP only, MASSES of PvE'ers love to do BG's for FUN.


My theory is that this particular demograph of people count for masses amount of bots.


If you want to get rid of BG bots, then you need to make the game seamlessly flow ALOT better from PvE to PvP without giving the wrong demograph of person an unfair advantage. (ie making PvE legendarys the bis for arenas was kind of stupid)

I said to my guildees in Cata, when we learnt of PvP Power, "PvE'ers wont do BG's, or there will be a mass amount of botters".

It is simple logic that i thought through before MoP even came out, because most people do not have the time to grind two seperate paths and grind for two seperate gear sets UNLESS they are having FUN while they do it. (getting destroyed for 4 weeks while you grind a basic set of PvP gear is not fun, it is demoralising to the point that people either bot or boycott).

I believe was right. And i believe i am right about this.

Open BG's back up to PvE'ers instead of fragmenting it and closing them away, and you will see your bots disapear.



Thoughts? Am i right?

[Deleted]

No.
PvP and PvE is to different ways to play the game. PvE'ers shouldn't be able to join a BG and play up to par with people in PvP gear, not the other way around either.

[Vampurity]

I think your theory is a little far fetched.

Usually, the explanation that requires the least number of assumptions is correct. The reason for the massive appearance of bots is that Blizzard seems to be turning a blind eye to botting to keep their subscription numbers high. As more bots appear and people repeatedly report them to no avail, the threat of being banned becomes non-existent. Therefore, people think they can get away with it and turn to botting.

Think about it. If you could get away with cheating, wouldn't you do it, too? I'm not trying to justify botting. I'm just saying: if there's nothing to deter people from cheating, they're going to cheat.

[Glockoma]

My thoughts are...your complaining about grinding 2 sets but what about us who strictly pvp? It's not fair to us if you pce Care Bears are running around with your heroic gear 2 shotting us pvpers. You would then be grinding one set and being able to both pve and pvp with it. Pvpers don't pve with our pvp gear on do we? No because you would kick us from the raid in a heartbeat. Your thinking totally one sided

[Shaderas]

Massive botting in BG's started in MoP. Bots always existed sure, but a massive sweep of BG bots started in MoP. There is a logical reason for this.

The reason people bot in BG's is because PvE gear is now utterly useless in PvP.

I take myself as an example -

In previous expansions, i would raid with my guild, and when i got upgrades, i would love to test them in BG's for FUN. Now that fun has been taken away, i simply boycott BG's because there is no fun in working your ass off for useless BG items.

Other PvE people are not like me. They still like to have fun in BG's but do not like to get destroyed by using usless PvE items that have taken them weeks to acquire. Therefore, they bot......................lots of them bot.

BG's are not restricted to people that like PvP only, MASSES of PvE'ers love to do BG's for FUN.


My theory is that this particular demograph of people count for masses amount of bots.


If you want to get rid of BG bots, then you need to make the game seamlessly flow ALOT better from PvE to PvP without giving the wrong demograph of person an unfair advantage. (ie making PvE legendarys the bis for arenas was kind of stupid)

I said to my guildees in Cata, when we learnt of PvP Power, "PvE'ers wont do BG's, or there will be a mass amount of botters".

It is simple logic that i thought through before MoP even came out, because most people do not have the time to grind two seperate paths and grind for two seperate gear sets UNLESS they are having FUN while they do it. (getting destroyed for 4 weeks while you grind a basic set of PvP gear is not fun, it is demoralising to the point that people either bot or boycott).

I believe was right. And i believe i am right about this.

Open BG's back up to PvE'ers instead of fragmenting it and closing them away, and you will see your bots disapear.



Thoughts? Am i right?

At the same time, people entering PVP have baseline 40% resilience without any PVP Gear. It takes approximately 67% PVP Power to get it so that the increase from PVP Power balanced with the reduction of PVP Resilience cancels out. IMO, not a lot of people have that much PVP Power. So most of the time you'd have more resilience than you would in the past, making entry into PVP slightly easier than in the past. That being said...

Burst in PVP was too high for 5.0 and 5.1. So while you did have some baseline reduction, it just wasn't enough because of how high burst was. They seem to be addressing this in 5.2 and hopefully things will be a little more balanced. We'll have to wait and see of course.

[howdydiddlydoo]

No.
PvP and PvE is to different ways to play the game. PvE'ers shouldn't be able to join a BG and play up to par with people in PvP gear, not the other way around either.

It would be nice if you actually read the thread.

I have made a theory as to why MoP saw a massive influx of BG bots.

Would be nice if you could comment on topic.

[Tkaczu]

I was wondering myself why we have increased bots numbers in MoP when PVP grinding is easiest of all expansions. Your assumptions would be true if PVP gear from bgs was hard to obtain skill and time wise, but is not. Do not compare it to the PVE valor grind, because you can have blue pvp gear without any cap per day/week limit (you can get basic pvp set a lot faster than in 4 weeks, unless you play silly 1 win game daily). And I doubt if people just set up bots to grind conquests. Anyway, I always accepted to be stomped in bgs when obtaining pvp gear, thats part of the fun like playing in 10 levels brackets back in days. If someone runs bot to avoid that, I hope I won't meet him in my bg team because those people whine a lot and finally leaves bg when slight disadvantage occurs. But I don't believe people gear pvp and stop botting, thats the same nonsense like having leveling service (you buy game, pay for being able to play and finally pay someone to play it for you).

[RandomGamer]

It would be nice if you actually read the thread.

I have made a theory as to why MoP saw a massive influx of BG bots.

Would be nice if you could comment on topic.

More than a theory it seems like a self justification for botting or being an ass on random BGs

[Illiterate]

Why do I bot bgs? Because of this retarded upgrade system.

And I doubt if people just set up bots to grind conquests.

If you play a class (such as a rogue), your only option is to cap in randoms. Nobody will take you for rbgs or even 2s.

[Blackeyecycle]

There hasn't been an influx in bots. Maybe you are paying more attention.

[Osmeric]

More likely, a lot of people just aren't doing BGs, so the bots that are there are more apparent.

[iamthedevil]

It because people are lazy and bots are accessible.

[kosechi]

i still haven't seen these full of bots begs that everyone talks about. at most i'll see 1 per match and i do a lot of random bgs.

whats more, being in pve or pvp gear doesn't matter if you enjoy that particular kind of pvp. gear only matters in rated play, random bgs where people bot is not rated play and a well organized undergeared team is perfectly capable of rolling an over confident geared team

people seem to continue botting after they've gotten full honor gear/full upgrades. why is that? turning honor into motes and then into trade goods seems to be an incredibly inefficient way to gain those items compared to just going out and botting the raw materials.

[Gandrake]

whats more, being in pve or pvp gear doesn't matter if you enjoy that particular kind of pvp. gear only matters in rated play

wait

people enjoy being killed in shockwaves that hit them for 130k? What?

[walkingtall]

This is a bit long. In short, I'll just say that having one set of gear for PVE and PVP would be fine with me. I understand why that isn't the case and I'm also fine with that too. Anyways, here goes.

In vanilla, Most of us played one toon, maybe messed around with an alt or two (I had a 49) and that was that. It was too much work to level a second toon. Even in TBC I really only had one toon at a time although I leveled a couple of others. In Wrath I expanded a bit, a lot actually. When cataclysm hit alts were encouraged by new content and by then everyone had heirlooms, or RAF, or whatever. It had become really easy to level alts.

Also, the rise of the arena crowd, led to constant concerns about class balance. I remember one guy, a semi-famous lock bragging about how he was going to get a contract and I thought "yeah, for 30K/year, maybe, and what happens when Blizzard decides locks aren't at the top of the food chain"? So, what did the arena crowd do? They rolled a bunch of alts.

So, along comes MOP which for the first 3 zones is a great leveling experience, not so much in the latter two levels, but still doable. A single toon player can have it done in 20ish hours, enjoy most of it, and head on over to BG's and gear out really fast with honor gear (really a couple of weeks at most). But there aren't many single toon players any more, especially on the pvp side of the house. So, for them, the grind is double, tripled, quadrupled, etc.

And so how do they solve the problem? Some of them whine about how hard it is to gear out and make posts about how it should be easier, some quit, some grind it out, and the rest bot. So, while gearing out is actually easier than it's ever been (at least until the gear upgrade change) you actually have way more people botting. It's my belief that this is why there are so many bots in the 85-89 bracket.

For Blizzard it's kind of a catch-22. They needed to make the game easier, especially as the community has aged (something I support) but they also helped to create a situation that, in a way, encouraged botting. They also haven't helped, at all, by not publicly, directly and loudly dealing with the problem. And unfortunately they seem completely overwhelmed by the problem at the moment.

[kosechi]

wait

people enjoy being killed in shockwaves that hit them for 130k? What?

when that happens in rated play its not fun, when it happens in a random bg its kind of funny.

[PetersenIII]

No.
PvP and PvE is to different ways to play the game. PvE'ers shouldn't be able to join a BG and play up to par with people in PvP gear, not the other way around either.

And yet, with PvP Power and PvP Resilience off the item budget, PvP gear suffers little to no penalty at all of being used in PvE.

[Osmeric]

And yet, with PvP Power and PvP Resilience off the item budget, PvP gear suffers little to no penalty at all of being used in PvE.

Well, in general you want to gem/enchant/reforge it a bit differently.

[Deleted]

make ladders based on gear when hitting level cap.

- people with pve gear together.
- people with certain pvp attributes or even a separate pvp gear/ilvl together.

this way, bg's won't be determined on the gear your team has but rather on your skills because pvp is already unbalanced, if we rule gear problems out, it would be fine but not near perfect.


idunno, but bots are really a pain in the arse, almost going with "if you can't beat em join em", but i'm too righteous to do that.

[Shaderas]

And yet, with PvP Power and PvP Resilience off the item budget, PvP gear suffers little to no penalty at all of being used in PvE.

That's why the iLevels of PVP gear are generally lower.

Blue PVP Gear = 458 equivalent to Blue Heroic gear 463.

Epic PVP Gear = 483 equivalent to Raid Finder Gear I believe (Haven't done raid finder).

"Epic" PVP weapons = 470, which is below Raid Finder weapons.

There is a method to Blizzard's madness, even if most people won't acknowledge it. Not saying it's balanced, but there is an attempt at balance there...