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  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    Then we disagree on what a soldier is. I think they should have some empathy and an opinion in a war they're fighting that isn't simply a copy and paste of a leader they blindly follow.
    Such soldiers used to be executed as traitors or heretics back then.

    Stop romantizing war, its brutal and pitiless, not full of honor and heroism.
    Last edited by Verdugo; 2013-01-04 at 03:53 PM.

  2. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Such soldiers used to be executed as traitors or heretics back then.

    Stop romantizing war, its brutal and pitiless, not full of honor and heroism.
    It certainly isn't emotionless or remorseless.
    Also wars are absolutely full of honour and heroism in fantasy settings such as Warcraft, in fact it's usually a staple for fantasy worlds - the idea of heroic actions.

    As I've pointed out before your general misanthropic and gloomy statements have never been an attitude synonymous in Warcraft.
    Last edited by Scummer; 2013-01-04 at 04:13 PM.

  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    It certainly isn't emotionless or remorseless.
    Only as aftershock. During battle, you only feel basic survival instinct - Kill or be killed.

  4. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Only as aftershock. During battle, you only feel basic survival instinct - Kill or be killed.
    Go read any fantasy book Warcraft or otherwise. There is absolutely inner turmoil portrayed in characters when they fight, go read ToW where you have Baine feeling sorry for killing Alliance soldiers.

  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    Go read any fantasy book Warcraft or otherwise. There is absolutely inner turmoil portrayed in characters when they fight, go read ToW where you have Baine feeling sorry for killing Alliance soldiers.
    As I said, romantized. One of many reasons I cant stand storytelling in Blizzard games/books/whatever.

    Try to read books from the authors of the lost generation, they described war perfectly.

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    I'm not sure what point you're trying to make with this. I know the Forsaken are different and don't care about/have a twisted morality.
    But just because they have a different system doesn't suddenly excuse them of their actions regardless of their twisted motivations.

    .
    Yes it does. Morality is entirely subjective. The crusades the Christians tortured, murdered, maimed millions of people in the name of God because they believed they were doing the moral thing. The Mayans sacrificed thousands to their gods, and the society thought it was the moral thing to do. Americans thought they were doing the moral thing by moving Indians off of their native lands.

    Mortality is subjective.

  7. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icarris View Post
    Yes it does. Morality is entirely subjective. The crusades the Christians tortured, murdered, maimed millions of people in the name of God because they believed they were doing the moral thing. The Mayans sacrificed thousands to their gods, and the society thought it was the moral thing to do. Americans thought they were doing the moral thing by moving Indians off of their native lands.

    Mortality is subjective.
    ???
    I know morality is subjective that's what I said. What I also said is that just because somebody has different morality doesn't mean they are automatically forgiven especially when their morality directly conflicts with others and usually at their expense.

    You mentioned the Crusades, by our standards they were heinous acts of inhumane torture and killing to the point where they are still brought up as examples today as examples of awful acts. Just because their standards were different doesn't mean their actions were any less barbaric and certainly doesn't mean they are forgiveable or deserve sympathy.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-04 at 04:47 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    As I said, romantized. One of many reasons I cant stand storytelling in Blizzard games/books/whatever.

    Try to read books from the authors of the lost generation, they described war perfectly.
    Why do you continue to post about a story you dislike that obviously was never created with your preferences in story telling?
    (I mean this as an honest question, rather than to badger you)
    Comparing irl feelings during a War to a fantasy one is almost night and day different.

  8. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    Then we disagree on what a soldier is. I think they should have some empathy and an opinion in a war they're fighting that isn't simply a copy and paste of a leader they blindly follow.
    Dunno about you, dude, but I've been to the army. The only one time someone's interested in your opinion is when they ask you whether it's navy or ground.
    He specifically mentions that he was specific to the development team about what Varian is doing, this is is something that is going to happen.
    Good. And thanks for the link.
    Ofcourse we're not seeing them outside of Lordaeron, regardless of their ultimate aim it's still their first objective, not to mention the simply fact that they can only conquer Lordaeron atm as it's the only zone that's within their reach atm.
    I don't think we should raid UC to kill Sylvanas as it's been done twice already pretty much. But I think she's too far gone to have a redemption story of any kind. I just don't see any way in which she can truly grow as a character that doesn't include her death or her going further and further down this new dark path of hers.
    One good thing about ambiguous acts is that you can keep doing them and still be interesting. Genetic experiments? Religious worship? Strong nationalism? My wet dream is to see Forsaken Commissars, Warhammer style.

    Also, try playing The Witcher 1&2. Perfect games in terms of plot, many questions and situations that simply have no right answer or solution, especially in the second game, very nonlinear. And then your uneasy decisions come back and bite you in the ass.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-05 at 05:53 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    Comparing irl feelings during a War to a fantasy one is almost night and day different.
    They aren't supposed to be different, or else you'll get funny war, dramatic fishing, and unemotional love. Feelings have to be adequate, otherwise it's a crap of storytelling.

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